Timeline Discussion

Chibi Mystic Gohan · Post by **Chibi Mystic Gohan** » Sun Nov 20, 2005 6:04 pm

I don't count the two "original" timelines. I thought we were counting how many "altered" timelines there were! Oh well. Anyway, I'd like to get that diagram posted soon >_<

*PINHEAD* · Post by ***PINHEAD*** » Sun Nov 20, 2005 7:38 pm

At the risk of adding more to a necro-posted thread...

There's the original timeline. Then the timeline created when Trunks goes to the past the first time. Then the timeline created when he returns to the past. So far there is three.

Then Cell screws everything up. He originally goes back in the past before Trunks's first trip, thus creating a fourth timeline. A fifth timeline is created during that timeline when Trunks goes back. Then a sixth during Trunks's second trip. Then a seventh when Trunks returns to tell everyone about his defeat over the androids in his time (I'm not so sure about this one, I haven't actually read DB in a while, but for some reason I think he did...).

Or I'm completely wrong.

Post by **desirecampbell** » Sun Nov 20, 2005 9:14 pm

I just read that timeline posted by Mike (way back before the thread got 'revived') and it says that Trunks went back to the future and waited three years to go back again to help with the androids.

Does anyone have any info on this? Did Trunks go back to the future, wait three years, then go back? Or did he go back to the future, re-charge his flux capacitor, then go back right away? Or did he not go back to the future at all, just hopping ahead three years?

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Sun Nov 20, 2005 10:09 pm

Probably he went to the future to recharge the Time Machine, however long that takes, then went back to three years after he left.

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 7:10 am

In 784 he goes to 764 (give Goku medicine). Then he returns to 784, and then goes to 767 (androids, Cell). He returns to 785. It seems time travel isn't instantanteous: time passes in 784 while he's gone in both cases.

Terra-jin · Post by **Terra-jin** » Sat Sep 01, 2007 1:08 pm

I'd like to post a timeline-related issue here, in order to avoid creating a new thread about it in Questions.

I'm trying to determine where the border between past and future (the present) is at any given point in any given timeline. I'll explain:
When Trunks arrived in the past the first time and was there to warn Goku and everything, he goes back approximately two hours later. The present of the new timeline was at [Trunks' arrival + 1 hour].
Now, what was the present of the original timeline, at this point? Was it also two hours later or was it still at [Trunks' first departure]? What I'm asking is: does time run synchronously through all timelines, or does it run completely indepently from each other? I can't get my head around it, but I need to get this straightened out to complete my Timeline Manifesto.

Any help would be greatly appreciated, and if it seems like I invaded this thread, please excuse me.

Post by **desirecampbell** » Sat Sep 01, 2007 1:16 pm

Just smash your head against the wall for a few hours - you'll be right where the rest of us are on the timeline

It's probably more headache than it's worth, but if you really want to discuss the timelines you're better off starting a whole new thread (there have been many other threads about it, but it's always best to start fresh).

Terra-jin · Post by **Terra-jin** » Sat Sep 01, 2007 1:24 pm

Well, I have worked out several rules of DB-style time travel and I can completely back the whole thing up. That last question is the only uncertainty - but I guess I'll include both possibilities and assume the latter.

nitemare · Post by **nitemare** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 7:22 pm

Dayspring wrote:Timeline 3-Cell's Original Timeline:
Goku kills Freeza+co;
Goku dies of heart disease;
Androids kill all but Trunks;
Trunks goes back into timeline 4's past;
Trunks returns to this timeline with a remote control to destroy the androids;
Trunks uses remote and destroys androids;
Cell kills Trunks;
Cell goes back into Manga's (Timeline 2) past with hopes of achieving perfect body;

Timeline 4-Unknown Timeline:
Trunks (from Cell's Original Timeline/Timeline 3) kills Freeza+co;
Trunks gives Goku medicine;
Trunks tries to help defeat androids, fails, finds remote control to destroy androids;
Trunks returns to Timeline 3 (Cell's Original Timeline);
Cell achieves Perfect Form (details unknown, possibly Androids win and are assimilated years later, or this is a Cell from yet another unknown timeline);
Cell Games take place, outcome unknown

I don't seem to understand this - if in manga/anime timeline there is Cell who came from timeline #3 how is it possible that Goku extinguished Freeza and co (in timeline #3) since we are told in ep 143 during conversation between Piccolo and Cell that the latter could have possibly consist also of Trunks cells, that could have been collected before he hatched, but there was already enough from Saiyajins. There is a cutscene during this conversation in which it is Trunks Ssj who kills both Freeza and his big papa which implies that it was taking place in Cell's original timeline....timeline #3

Okay...I also think another alternate timeline exist - it would be number 8 according to my theory...well Cell shows up having an interesting coversation with Piccolo and creates a certain relationship with him ending up with a romantic dinner...during their date Cell makes up his mind to absorb Kuririn instead of Jinzouningens to gain advantage of having no nose! Piccolo devastated by this fact and that his cell-friend chose Kuririn instead of him, enters a fashion-show-competition, wins and becames fashion-Kamisama...unfortunately for Cell, Kuririn's mind takes over Cell body and uses it so that his beloved Maron-chan can finally make up with him and marry...Goku unable to understand this rather sudden turn of events shouts at Toryiama and enters www.daizex.com in hope to learn about difficult and complex problem of time.....sorry for digression but my head's gone a bit fuzzy and I couldn't help it

laserkid · Post by **laserkid** » Sun Sep 30, 2007 4:01 pm

God, the timeline discussion is still going on? Argh xD

I posted an image on another forum to give my best possible explanation, its not perfect but eh, it might help (maybe)

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Sun Sep 30, 2007 4:51 pm

laserkid wrote:God, the timeline discussion is still going on? Argh xD

I posted an image on another forum to give my best possible explanation, its not perfect but eh, it might help (maybe)

*snip*

That's the first of them I've been able to understand. XD

Conan the SSJ · Post by **Conan the SSJ** » Sun Sep 30, 2007 8:39 pm

laserkid wrote:

Yeah, I tend to ignore the Daizenshuuu's "conclusion" for Timeline 4. I personally presume that DBZ movie 7 happened after its Artificial Humans were defeated and before Trunks went back to be killed by Cell, placing that movie into a very awkward spot in the anime timeframe. That's my outlook on it, anyway.

laserkid · Post by **laserkid** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 3:25 pm

Personally Conan, for sanity reasons, I ignore it too, I only put it there because some people go insane over that part.

And SSJ Kaboom, I'm glad you could follow it, it was made specifically FOR a non DBZ audience to prove how insane the DBZ plotline can get at times (they all assumed it had no plot at all - don't you love nonfan stereotypes? I blew their minds away with that).

Teclo · Post by **Teclo** » Sat Oct 13, 2007 12:11 pm

(I hope this doesn't count as necro-posting, the last post was 11 days ago though the thread began much longer ago)

This all seemed so much simpler when I was a child. Then it just looked like what was going to happen was averted by Mirai Trunks coming back - no alt. timelines or anything, just a nice simple "I have come from the future to save you".

Of course, since the androids were killed/converted to the good side, Mirai Trunks future would never have happened and you'd only get grown up Chibi Trunks. Thus, Mirai Trunks wouldn't come back in time, thus Goku would die of a heart disease and the androids would win, thus Mirai Trunks would exist and would come back from the future to save everyone and the androids would be defeated, so Mirai Trunks wouldn't have ever existed so... repeat till insanity sets in.

It's like Back to the Future: Marty goes back to the 50s, his mother falls in love with him and as such ignores his would-be father. As a result of this Marty starts to fade out of existence since, consequently, he was never conceived. However, if he didn't end up existing he wouldn't have been able to come back in time so his mother would get together with his father and he would exist and be able to come back in time... I guess that's what they call a causality loop.

What I don't get about DBZ is that surely Mirai Trunks would have gone back in his own timeline or else there'd be no point in going back? So he either altered the past of his own timeline and consequently undid the origins of his own existence and consequent journey to the past OR he went to the past of an alternative timeline and had no effect on his own timespace from which he came... In other words, a multiple-timeline model of time travel seems to have been used to avoid a causality loop (as detailed in paragraphs 2 and 3) but as such it totally removed the purpose behind Trunks going back in time since he was having no effect on the situation from which he fled.

sailorspazz · Post by **sailorspazz** » Sat Oct 13, 2007 6:55 pm

Yes, it is explained in the series that Trunks' actions in the "main" timeline have no effect on his own timeline. It's unclear whether he and Bulma knew this when making the time machine, but I think he said he realized it when he came back to his own timeline the first time and Gokuu had still died of a heart attack, even though he had given the heart medicine to the past Gokuu. But he still decided to go back again for a couple of reasons, one being that he and Bulma thought it was worth it to prevent another timeline from turning into the Hell that theirs had become. Also, Trunks thought that perhaps if he were fighting alongside the Z warriors in the past against the Androids, he might be able to learn from them how to defeat them in his own timeline. So even though going into the past didn't directly effect his own timeline, there were still benefits to doing so.

Kanzenshuu

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