Is Dragonball deeper than it looks?

[Amigo Ten]

Vegeta's story is almost Shakespearean when you think about it. Here is a man who had his kingdom and race taken away from him because of Freeza and he doesn't have the strength to get it back he has to rely on someone below him to save whats left of the Saiyan Race. Freeza and his power across the galaxy can be compared to things like the Crusades or even slavery. The scouters and Friezea's inability to sense opponents can be seen as a satirical way of saying people are becoming too reliant on technology and less on their own ability. The Dragonballs can be seen in the same light too, as they start using the Dragonballs less often they start relying on their own strengths and abilities instead of wishing to make everything better.

I'm sure there is more but those were just off the top of my head. This would actually be a really fun podcast.

But they used the Dragonballs more and more as the series went on. By the Boo arc it was a case of "Oh, humanity's being wiped out. Well, nevermind, we've got the Dragonballs."

As far as Vegeta's concerned, I never felt he cared about what happened to his race. He thought of himself as above the rest of them anyway. He just hated having to serve Freeza.

[Herms]

...Which part of One Piece is 'deep'? It's a straight forward manga about friendship and shonen spirit.

In terms of the underlying World-Government plots.

I think I'd classify that as more "complex" than "deep" (in the sense of having deep themes and deep characters).

[Adamant]

Vegeta's story is almost Shakespearean when you think about it. Here is a man who had his kingdom and race taken away from him because of Freeza and he doesn't have the strength to get it back he has to rely on someone below him to save whats left of the Saiyan Race. Freeza and his power across the galaxy can be compared to things like the Crusades or even slavery. The scouters and Friezea's inability to sense opponents can be seen as a satirical way of saying people are becoming too reliant on technology and less on their own ability. The Dragonballs can be seen in the same light too, as they start using the Dragonballs less often they start relying on their own strengths and abilities instead of wishing to make everything better.

I'm sure there is more but those were just off the top of my head. This would actually be a really fun podcast.

As far as Vegeta's concerned, I never felt he cared about what happened to his race. He thought of himself as above the rest of them anyway. He just hated having to serve Freeza.

Straight from the man's mouth himself:

Don't get me wrong, Dodoria. I don't care about what happened to my planet, comrades, or my parents. However, the fact that I've been used like that since my childhood, without any knowledge, just makes me absolutely furious!

[penguintruth]

I think that's the thing the dub always got wrong, making him seem like his Saiyan pride is a cause, instead of an effect.

Vegeta isn't proud because he's proud of the Saiyan race, the Saiyan blood causes him to be proud. It's an effect, not a cause.

[Bussani]

...Which part of One Piece is 'deep'? It's a straight forward manga about friendship and shonen spirit.

In terms of the underlying World-Government plots.

I think I'd classify that as more "complex" than "deep" (in the sense of having deep themes and deep characters).

Complex, that's the word I should have picked. There aren't any deeper meanings to those plots, they're just complex and well planned. Complex and deep are different things.

[Cartman Blues]

IMO, I would think it would be interesting to see a DBZ movie that crafted a deeper plot that explored some motives and added more personality to the characters. Would ya'll agree?

[Kendamu]

To anyone who isn't used to the idea of Shounen Spirit and all that it entails then maybe it is kinda deep and is a bit of a learning experience. Otherwise, it's not that deep and it's just plain fun!

[SSJ2bardock]

Vegeta isn't proud because he's proud of the Saiyan race, the Saiyan blood causes him to be proud. It's an effect, not a cause.

Which Saiyan was he proud of? He was pretty ashamed of Raditz and disgusted enough with Nappa that he killed him.

[MCDaveG]

Dragon Ball is not DEEP...... no way! It's classic japanese fighting adventure..... There is major plot, you are travelling across the land where you met some opponents to fights and at the end you'll find the major t villain, who is always a bit stronger then you and after his defeat, there you go again but stronger with stronger opponents....

There is nothing deep in it and there is nothing other to research then what's in Daizenshuu or author said himself, it's only TV show for fun but lot of people seems to don't understand that.....

There is a message in Star Wars with deeper meaning and a really big and well made plot, but what's in Dragon Ball comparing to this?
Making friends and oppose the evil??? That's not very deep you know....
But yeah, there was one well made plot with the timelines in Androids and Cell arc, but still, nothing deep

[Bussani]

There is a message in Star Wars with deeper meaning

Out of curiosity, what would that be?

[B]

Vegeta isn't proud because he's proud of the Saiyan race, the Saiyan blood causes him to be proud. It's an effect, not a cause.

Which Saiyan was he proud of? He was pretty ashamed of Raditz and disgusted enough with Nappa that he killed him.

Uhm, he meant Vegeta is proud in the sense that he's arrogant and elitist, not that he's proud of any particular other person.

[Dayspring]

One of the things that always really annoyed me was anime fans complaining about how Dragonball/Z has no depth compared to other manga/anime like Gundam, Fullmetal Alchemist, Code Geass, Death Note, Evangelion, Gurren Lagann, Monster, Berserk etc. Would you say diffrerent?

Formulaic is not deep. It loosely explores one theme for a precise purpose, most of which is entertainment, not depth. That's why most Superman stories suck ass.

Dragonball: Through hard work and determination, even the most idiotic weakling and coward can become the stuff of greatness. Typical inspirational shonen, and why I love it. Deep? Oh my, no. Good? Quite.

Gundam: War bad! Gundam smash puny mecha! Not deep at all. We just like underdogs beating up facists with an almighty jumbo-suit of armor.

Fullmetal Alchemist: Not quite alchemy + not quite Catholicism = not quite deep. It's your typical absolution post-sin/pre-sin tale and pretty much nothing else.

Code Geass: So this is not Gundam because it bashes real life white peoples instead of fictional empires? And that makes it deep? I think not.

Death Note: Cat and Mouse Mystery at its best. But still nothing but Cat and Mouse Mystery. Not deep, but worth watching.

Evangelion: This TRIES very hard to be deep, but doesn't quite make it. It's an Apocalypse tale, but without the Rebirth (unless one of the many ending-remakes has one that I don't know about). We get a bit of depth in Shinji when they lay it on thick, but he never grows; he stays put in that chasm of his soul. Meanwhile everyone else is devoid of depth because the story revolves around Shinji first and foremost. A great sci-fi, but not that deep at all.

Gurren Lagann: So... deep as in deep tunnel structures? How is this deep?

Monster: Haven't read/seen it, yet.

Berserk: Indeed complex, but I wouldn't call this deep. Reminds me of Le Roland and Le Morte d'Arthur for some reason. Definitely the deepest of what your friend calls deep, but I still see this one as formulaic.

[Bussani]

One of the things that always really annoyed me was anime fans complaining about how Dragonball/Z has no depth compared to other manga/anime like Gundam, Fullmetal Alchemist, Code Geass, Death Note, Evangelion, Gurren Lagann, Monster, Berserk etc. Would you say diffrerent?

Formulaic is not deep. It loosely explores one theme for a precise purpose, most of which is entertainment, not depth. That's why most Superman stories suck ass.

Dragonball: Through hard work and determination, even the most idiotic weakling and coward can become the stuff of greatness. Typical inspirational shonen, and why I love it. Deep? Oh my, no. Good? Quite.

Gundam: War bad! Gundam smash puny mecha! Not deep at all. We just like underdogs beating up facists with an almighty jumbo-suit of armor.

Fullmetal Alchemist: Not quite alchemy + not quite Catholicism = not quite deep. It's your typical absolution post-sin/pre-sin tale and pretty much nothing else.

Code Geass: So this is not Gundam because it bashes real life white peoples instead of fictional empires? And that makes it deep? I think not.

Death Note: Cat and Mouse Mystery at its best. But still nothing but Cat and Mouse Mystery. Not deep, but worth watching.

Evangelion: This TRIES very hard to be deep, but doesn't quite make it. It's an Apocalypse tale, but without the Rebirth (unless one of the many ending-remakes has one that I don't know about). We get a bit of depth in Shinji when they lay it on thick, but he never grows; he stays put in that chasm of his soul. Meanwhile everyone else is devoid of depth because the story revolves around Shinji first and foremost. A great sci-fi, but not that deep at all.

Gurren Lagann: So... deep as in deep tunnel structures? How is this deep?

Monster: Haven't read/seen it, yet.

Berserk: Indeed complex, but I wouldn't call this deep. Reminds me of Le Roland and Le Morte d'Arthur for some reason. Definitely the deepest of what your friend calls deep, but I still see this one as formulaic.

Couldn't have said it better myself (so I didn't).

[Amigo Ten]

I just have to say, Superman: Red Son certainly did not suck ass.

[RoarkVegeta]

Watch the Saiya-jin arc. Not deep.


Watch the 23rd Budoukai. FRICKEN DEEP.

[MCDaveG]

There is a message in Star Wars with deeper meaning

Out of curiosity, what would that be?

You can find lot of things, like one old religion which is going to rbake apart because it's isolated from outer world.....
Like one man who have mysterious past who's behind all things that happened in all sagas....
The story is about battle against evil but it shows you that evil and good is not black and white....
Main character is good but then he's seduced by evil in believe that he'smaking it for good....

There are lot of things and lot of them you can see in daily life, because people are not only good and evil and everything is not as it's look like

PS: Compared to it, Dragon Ball is only Shounen.... make friends and going on adventure..... the main message of Shounen manga's are that you can do it with friends, like in Saint Seiya. There they are talking about friendship, that it's like family and going on adventures and fights too....

Only message in Shounen for me are Boy's ideals like be strong, brave and honorable. Goku is archetype for this

[MCDaveG]

That's why this series are kids show, but are more mature than Megaman or animated Spider-man etc.

[Big Boss]

That's why this series are kids show, but are more mature than Megaman or animated Spider-man etc.

What, Star Wars or Dragon Ball?

Ba-Zhing!

[MCDaveG]

That's why this series are kids show, but are more mature than Megaman or animated Spider-man etc.

What, Star Wars or Dragon Ball?

Ba-Zhing!

I think that Star Wars is for all ages, but kids will only enjoy the fights and not the plot. They will only seen Anakin Skywalker, who is turned to Darth Vader and in the end of six movies again good + those fights....

Dragon Ball is for kids but I think that the message of friendship and to be honorable is not matter of childhood only, but that's all the fragrance of DB's deepnes

[Dr. Casey]

Watch the Saiya-jin arc. Not deep.


Watch the 23rd Budoukai. FRICKEN DEEP.

Elaborate, sir.