Kai changing the perception of DragonBall

[ShinGaijin]

Personally, Kai did not change anything at all ... I've always considered Dragonball Z & Dragonball Kai as two different shows.
Or perhaps, the "action" side of Kai brings out more the "emotional" side of Dragonball Z.

[kei17]

It's really saddening to hear that people in the English speaking countries are still plagued with a primitive curse.

The kid's nine years old. Give him a chance. He's at the age where Faulconer's music would be more appealing than Kikuchi's due to it's supposed 'cool factor'.

I don't care his personal choice. Let him choose what he likes. The saddening fact is that an evil practice from the past is still around like a curse as an option on home video releases and there's still a chance of new fans being exposed to it.

Just because he likes the Faulconer score it doesn't make him any less of a fan than anyone else.

What's actually saddening is that there's people here bashing others just for the fact that they like a musical score that others don't.

This picture below shows what fanboys are like:

*total nonsense*

You're just putting words in my mouth. You sure seem to like the "stop disliking what I like" logic, though.

[90sDBZ]

I don't care his personal choice. Let him choose what he likes. The saddening fact is that an evil practice from the past is still around like a curse as an option on home video releases and there's still a chance of new fans being exposed to it.

It's an evil practice in your eyes but why should it bother you when you can simply listen to the Japanese score? Why begrudge others their viewing pleasure? If you really believe Kikuchi is superior then trust the new fans to decide that on their own instead of just trying to force your ideal DBZ experience on them and wanting to hide the Faulconer score from them out of fear of them liking it.

[VegettoEX]

I don't care his personal choice. Let him choose what he likes. The saddening fact is that an evil practice from the past is still around like a curse as an option on home video releases and there's still a chance of new fans being exposed to it.

It's an evil practice in your eyes but why should it bother you when you can simply listen to the Japanese score? Why begrudge others their viewing pleasure? If you really believe Kikuchi is superior then trust the new fans to decide that on their own instead of just trying to force your ideal DBZ experience on them and wanting to hide the Faulconer score from them out of fear of them liking it.

As far as I can tell, kei isn't demonizing the individual viewer for being exposed to the replacement music, but rather demonizing those in charge of the decision and the principle of the practice itself.

And that's totally OK.

I feel pretty much the same way. The show the way that I love it is the way that I'd love for other people to primarily be exposed to it, especially on their first viewing. I (and, again, as far as I can tell, also kei) do not cast judgement on someone because they're the unfortunate soul caught in the middle completely ignorant as to what's going on behind-the-scenes. They're the "victim", and we're not "blaming" them.

[Looneygamemaster]

I feel that calling the practice "evil" is going too far. It's perfectly fine to dislike it, but why don't we save that word for deeds that truly deserve it?

Just my two cents.

[90sDBZ]

I don't care his personal choice. Let him choose what he likes. The saddening fact is that an evil practice from the past is still around like a curse as an option on home video releases and there's still a chance of new fans being exposed to it.

It's an evil practice in your eyes but why should it bother you when you can simply listen to the Japanese score? Why begrudge others their viewing pleasure? If you really believe Kikuchi is superior then trust the new fans to decide that on their own instead of just trying to force your ideal DBZ experience on them and wanting to hide the Faulconer score from them out of fear of them liking it.

As far as I can tell, kei isn't demonizing the individual viewer for being exposed to the replacement music, but rather demonizing those in charge of the decision and the principle of the practice itself.

And that's totally OK.

I feel pretty much the same way. The show the way that I love it is the way that I'd love for other people to primarily be exposed to it, especially on their first viewing. I (and, again, as far as I can tell, also kei) do not cast judgement on someone because they're the unfortunate soul caught in the middle completely ignorant as to what's going on behind-the-scenes. They're the "victim", and we're not "blaming" them.

I can understand you guys wanting others to experience the same joys from the show that you do. I'm sure all of us feel that way about whichever version we happen to like. When I introduce someone to DBZ I naturally recommend the dub because I get pleasure out of sharing the experience that I enjoyed so much myself. What I don't see the point in though is trying to push the other version out of existence. It's basically an "It's not enough for our team to win. The other team must lose" mentality. If you guys truly believe Kikuchi's score to be superior then why worry about the existence of Faulconer's score? Both have been available on recent releases and both have had plenty of exposure so surely if Kikuchi is really that good then you should feel confident that people will come around to liking it. And it's not as if there aren't people out there who like both scores. I say live and let live. Both can co-exist just fine.

[Duo]

I think that, over time, the show is cementing itself with more and more folks. It's not a huge number online yet, but there has to be an entire group of fans who don't know anything else (ex: my girlfriend read DB tankobon 1-16, watched Kai, then finished out the rest of the story returning to the manga), and eventually aspects of filler and dub mistranslations are going to become smaller and smaller relative to the overall fanbase. I think this will help shake off it's reputation for being a slow, arduous show to watch. Heck, I no longer find myself able to watch the original show straight through. I skip. A lot.

That said, the strength of the Americanized version of Z is obviously still maintaining a massive presence (looking at /r/dbz), which can be seen through some of the weird things that have bled out of hype surrounding Battle of Gods. Golden Ssj4 fanart and "Bills" come to mind. Hopefully Grandma Freeza will leave public consciousness before long.

[kei17]

I can understand you guys wanting others to experience the same joys from the show that you do. I'm sure all of us feel that way about whichever version we happen to like.

No, I hope that others experience the series in the way it was ORIGINALLY intended to be for artistic reasons, and the score is one of the most important parts of it. It's not that I want to force my personal joys on others.

What I don't see the point in though is trying to push the other version out of existence.

Because from an artistic point of view, the dub scores should not have existed from the beginning and they're not something equal to the original. They alter the original experience too much and ruin the Japanese staff's intentions. In fact, it's a practice that had already been abandoned years ago. However, now that replacemt scores actually do exist, I don't completely deny their very existences like Mein Kampf. They should be available for old fans' pure nostalgia or as an additional option for those who have already experienced the series with the original score. I don't want them to be today's newcomers' first experiences of the great series. We're living in 2014.

I wish the Blu-ray format had a feature of unlockable contents like "you can unlock the US broadcast music track by watching each episode for at least 5 minutes with the original score" or something like that.

It's basically an "It's not enough for our team to win. The other team must lose" mentality.

If you guys truly believe Kikuchi's score to be superior then why worry about the existence of Faulconer's score? Both have been available on recent releases and both have had plenty of exposure so surely if Kikuchi is really that good then you should feel confident that people will come around to liking it.

To me, it seems that it's rather you who's falling into that kind of mentality; "You're afraid of Kikuchi not being chosen by kids and Faulconer being proven to be better, so you want to avoid it by burying the existence of the Faulconer score, huh?". I'm neither competing with anyone nor talking about which one is musically better AT ALL. You're completely misunderstanding my opinion. I'm saying that it's sad that even newcomers today can be easily exposed to something unfaithful first, especially after getting Kai.

[90sDBZ]

I can understand you guys wanting others to experience the same joys from the show that you do. I'm sure all of us feel that way about whichever version we happen to like.

No, I hope that others experience the series in the way it was ORIGINALLY intended to be for artistic reasons, and the score is one of the most important parts of it. It's not that I want to force my personal joys on others.

What I don't see the point in though is trying to push the other version out of existence.

Because from an artistic point of view, the dub scores should not have existed from the beginning and they're not something equal to the original. They alter the original experience too much and ruin the Japanese staff's intentions. In fact, it's a practice that had already been abandoned years ago. However, now that replacemt scores actually do exist, I don't completely deny their very existences like Mein Kampf. They should be available for old fans' pure nostalgia or as an additional option for those who have already experienced the series with the original score. I don't want them to be today's newcomers' first experiences of the great series. We're living in 2014.

I wish the Blu-ray format had a feature of unlockable contents like "you can unlock the US broadcast music track by watching each episode for at least 5 minutes with the original score" or something like that.

It's basically an "It's not enough for our team to win. The other team must lose" mentality.

If you guys truly believe Kikuchi's score to be superior then why worry about the existence of Faulconer's score? Both have been available on recent releases and both have had plenty of exposure so surely if Kikuchi is really that good then you should feel confident that people will come around to liking it.

To me, it seems that it's rather you who's falling into that kind of mentality; "You're afraid of Kikuchi not being chosen by kids and Faulconer being proven to be better, so you want to avoid it by burying the existence of the Faulconer score, huh?". I'm neither competing with anyone nor talking about which one is musically better AT ALL. You're completely misunderstanding my opinion. I'm saying that it's sad that even newcomers today can be easily exposed to something unfaithful first, especially after getting Kai.

Well as far as first experience is concerned you don't have much reason to complain seeing as how the Orange Bricks and the new Blurays default to Kikuchi. And there's Kai. And I find it narrowminded when people write off the Faulconer score's appeal as just "pure nostalgia". Is it so hard to believe that people might actually have a more legit reason for preferring it? Maybe some people have listened to Kikuchi all the way through the series and simply don't care for it. Most people only care about whether or not something sounds good to them rather than worrying about the artists original intentions.

As for your suggestion of forcing fans to watch so much of the show with Kikuchi to unlock the dub score, that would just rub a lot of dub fans up the wrong way and would ultimately piss them off and put them off purchasing the rest of the series and would also create more prejudice towards the Japanese version. Force feeding people something just leads to resentment. It's down to them as individuals to try the show with Kikuchi or in full Japanese if they happen to be curious about it.

[DBZAOTA482]

No, but it did revive my interest in Dragon Ball.

[BlazingFiddlesticks]

One of the complaints about Kai was that he and his friends found the dialogue to be a bit hard to follow compared to the old dub.

Honestly, this brings a bit of a smug smile to my face. As fun as it is to see Funi taking Dragon Ball Z seriously, the old dub is absolutely less wordy. Funi Kai honestly does come off as trying to make what's really a dumb show sound not so much sometimes- I love that, it's Funi fighting what Dragon Ball really is in a much more interesting way, but for a first time viewer, particularly a young one, I can totally see it as a little off-putting.

[Hades]

It's because it has FAR LESS of the flaws of the original run (It's not a do or die affair, like it was for the old dub), and is much trimmer (DBZ, story to filler ratio, was one of the worst offenders in anime in that regard)

[SSJ3_Zack]

My nephew came to visit yesterday and once again he brought up DragonBall. Here's his thoughts on a few things if anyone is interested:

-He prefers Brian Drummond's take on Vegeta but didn't like the Westwood Dub.

-He and his friends LOVE DragonBall GT. They loved everything about it Super Saiya-jin 4, The Japanese Score, Goku being a kid, The Shadow Dragon saga, Super Saiya-Jin 4 Gogeta, everything.

- He still enjoys Faulconer's score more than Kikuchi but said that Kikuchi's score is "Growing" on him.

- All his friends hate Broli except for one kid who's favourite character is Broli.

- He and his friends love the episode where Piccolo and Goku attempt to get their Driving Licences.

- He's saving up to buy the orange bricks since it's the only complete release for the series.

I showed him The OVA Plan to eradicate the Super Saiya-Jin's since he wanted to see DragonBall in Japanese, here's his thoughts on the Japanese Original (Please bear in mind he's only 9 )

- He doesn't like Ryo Horikawa's Vegeta, but seemed to enjoy Masako Nowaza's take on Goku (It was a bit of a shock to him but he eventually got used to it).

- He said that he finds the Japanese version distracting because the Subtitles take away from his viewing experience.

-He likes the fact the original English dub is so different from the source material since it gives him two different perspectives or in his words it's like watching two different shows.

-He understands that the Japanese version is the true version and this fact has more than anything made him want to read the Manga more than anything.

[Fionordequester]

Kei17, VegettoEX, why not just let them choose? Have them watch 1-3 episodes with Faulconer music, then 1-3 episodes with Kikuchi, then go from there? Seems to me like that's the solution to that debate right there. And while I get what you're saying, I, personally, would feel a bit gypped if my friend never even told me of an alternate score, and it turned out I liked that better! So like I said, give em a choice, if that's not what you already do!

SSJ3_Furanki, thanks for the update!

[El Diabeetus]

Kei17, VegettoEX, why not just let them choose? Have them watch 1-3 episodes with Faulconer music, then 1-3 episodes with Kikuchi, then go from there? Seems to me like that's the solution to that debate right there. And while I get what you're saying, I, personally, would feel a bit gypped if my friend never even told me of an alternate score, and it turned out I liked that better! So like I said, give em a choice, if that's not what you already do!

SSJ3_Furanki, thanks for the update!

You accidentally put part of my username name instead of SSJ3_Zack's, haha! Very interesting to see the differing opinions there SSJ3_Zack! Whenever my little brother can actually fully speak (recently turned 2), I'm going to introduce him to Dragon Balk then Kai.

[Duo]

Kei17, VegettoEX, why not just let them choose? Have them watch 1-3 episodes with Faulconer music, then 1-3 episodes with Kikuchi, then go from there? Seems to me like that's the solution to that debate right there. And while I get what you're saying, I, personally, would feel a bit gypped if my friend never even told me of an alternate score, and it turned out I liked that better! So like I said, give em a choice, if that's not what you already do!

SSJ3_Furanki, thanks for the update!

My problem with this is that it assumes that the FUNImation version deserves an equal standing with the original, and if you look at worldwide audiences, the very notion of that is silly at best. As far as people who already prefer Faulconer, they are more than capable of introducing folks to that version of the show while those of us who prefer the straight Japanese version will introduce our friends to such.

[Seandream91]

Overall I wouldn't really say it changed my perception other than frieza with chris ayres I realized what his character was suppose to be like which also made me watch the original Japanese version of z

[TheGmGoken]

Kai made me like dbz more. Well the anime version.

[Cure Dragon 255]

This is all very interesting Zack! I'm glad new youngsters enjoy the show.

Also can you share the experiences in this thread?

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtop ... ead#unread

"

[TheUltimateVegito]

Funnily enough Batman has always reminded me of Piccolo.

Whenever I think of Batman, I always imagine him teaming up with Piccolo to track Imperfect Cell.