Gohan Question

Victator Supreme · Post by **Victator Supreme** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 8:49 pm

Gohan almost sacrifised his life fighting Buu when Kaioshin told him to run. He refused and stood his ground. He gave his all fighting Super Buu never giving up. How is that failing to keep his promise?

Eclipse · Post by **Eclipse** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 10:34 pm

Well, if he had listen to Goku during the Cell arc, he might have actually trained, then he wouldn't get his ass kicked by Majin Buu.

Him fighting Super Buu was what would have happened to the previous Buu had Gohan actually trained during the seven years. It's his 'redemption'

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 10:48 pm

Duo wrote:But what's this about him being a wuss? I'm remembering a few things...oh yeah, being the first person to kick Freeza around, making the "perfect" fighter resort to self-destruction out of sheer desperation of the like never before seen from a major (or minor) Villain, taking the most sadistic, maniacal of the Boo's and just tossing him around.

I remember him chickening out against Nappa, giving up against Vegeta, Freeza, and twice against Cell, pledging to not let anyone else down and then loafing off for years.

Well at least it's a change from the typical "go and train somewhere for a while" formula. Once again, you guys prove how fickle you are by complaining about repetitiveness in DBZ, then when something's done differently, there are complaints about that. Plus it's not like there was time to do that in the current situation with Majin Buu either. I notice there aren't complaints about when Vegeta allowed himself to be possessed by Babidi for a quick power-up though.

Vegeta had to sell himself into slavery to get the Majin powerup. Gohan had to sit on his ass.

It's not so much the power-up I dislike. I have no problem with the Guru powerup thing back on Namek, for example. My beef is that Gohan gets a hell of a lot of power for nothing. He doesn't work for it, it (not counting GT) is permanent and doesn't burn energy, no drawbacks at all!

Not counting Vegetto, Gohan is the most powerful being in the Universe, and it cost him nothing to get there.

Victator Supreme · Post by **Victator Supreme** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 10:57 pm

remember him chickening out against Nappa, giving up against Vegeta, Freeza, and twice against Cell, pledging to not let anyone else down and then loafing off for years.

He did not run from Vegeta, he stood up to him, and was nearly killed. He also stood up to Freeza, and was nearly killed for it.

He never backed down to Cell. He attempted to convince Cell not to fight, when talking failed he fought him with all he had.

So their was only one time he ever ran from a fight, it was against an alien monster who had just killed three of his friends (Two of whom were stronger than him). After Piccolo was killed by Nappa, Gohan stood up to him (despite Piccolo telling him to run). He was nearly killed for it.

So by your reasoning a five year old is a coward for running from a life and death battle?

Post by **desirecampbell** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 11:01 pm

Actually he did chicken out against... well, against nearly everyone. We're not saying a five-year-old is a coward for running away - but Gohan wasn't a regular five-year-old

Esspecially against Cell, he almost didn't go SSj2 because he was so scared.

Victator Supreme · Post by **Victator Supreme** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 11:04 pm

But he never ran. That is bravery in a nutshell. Being scared to death, but not running. That was his whole character. He gets scared, but he never backs down.

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 1:43 am

Victator Supreme wrote:
remember him chickening out against Nappa, giving up against Vegeta, Freeza, and twice against Cell, pledging to not let anyone else down and then loafing off for years.
He did not run from Vegeta, he stood up to him, and was nearly killed.

After whining to Goku about it hurting while his dad's laying there with practically all his bones broken.

He never backed down to Cell. He attempted to convince Cell not to fight, when talking failed he fought him with all he had.

I don't recall that. I recall Gohan whining about not liking to fight and then just standing there until 16 was killed.

And let's not forget Gohan's battle cry versus Super Perfect Cell: "I give up. Just kill me." At least until Daddy took his hand again.

So by your reasoning a five year old is a coward for running from a life and death battle?

Piccolo and Goku both called him a coward. I defer to their judgement.

Socar15 · Post by **Socar15** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 2:01 am

Rocketman wrote:Vegeta had to sell himself into slavery to get the Majin powerup. Gohan had to sit on his ass.

Vegeta didn't sell himself into slavery. He clearly showed that he was resistant to Babidi's control. The fact that he was still Majin Vegeta and he not only destroyed Babidi's ship but also attacked Fat Buu clearly showed that he was not a slave.

Rocketman wrote:Piccolo and Goku both called him a coward. I defer to their judgement.

Actually Goku ASKED him if he was a coward, and considering that Gohan then got up and faced Vegeta and fought with him even against the odds, clearly shows that Gohan turned out not to be a coward.

As for facing Cell, the fact that Gohan answered Goku's call to jump in and take over for him shows courage. The fact that he realized that he had the power within himself to destroy Cell, and still didn't want to fight isn't cowardice. He clearly wasn't scared of Cell, he simply didn't want to fight what he called a "meaningless" battle.

Rocketman wrote:And let's not forget Gohan's battle cry versus Super Perfect Cell: "I give up. Just kill me." At least until Daddy took his hand again.

Of course he feels that way. His overconfidence practically just killed his dad. Of course he's going to feel utterly depressed and unmotivated to do anything except let himself be killed. The fact that he was willing to die shows he wasn't a coward.

Duo · Post by **Duo** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 5:56 am

Coward? - Gohan was 4 and a half years old, and inflicted a severe blow on what was the strongest Villain up til' that point.

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Coward? - Age of 5, he was scared to attack someone who'd just killed 3 people right before him, but later on (in the "Grab his tail" tactic) Gohan was all out read to give it to the Saiyan, but stopped upon seeing that Nappa was not immobilized by Piccolo's grip.

But soon after, Gohan tells Piccolo to leave so the Dragonballs won't disapear. Kuririn is disabled at this point. Gohan is telling Piccolo that he will hold off until Goku arrives on his own, for the sake of everyones revival. Uh, a 5 year old wanted to stand up to someone many times his strength ALONE in self sacrifice. Coward? What? And when Nappa attacked him right after, Gohan gave it to him right in the face. Again, coward?

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Coward? - When Kuririn and Gohan were flying back to the Kame house, they feel Vegeta's Ki explode by 10fold. This is a Ki like...way bigger than anything they've ever experienced before. Kuririn insists on staying away. What does Gohan say? He demans they go back.

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Coward? - Okay, so Gohan see's this Great Ape turn into Vegeta, which he had no idea was possible and that they were the same, and is pretty much confused in general. He gets attacked first, and see's he's totally outclassed, and assumes he's pretty much screwed along with everyone else. Hey, he was right. How could he have known about the Genki-Dama Goku was harboring or later his tail growing back?

So he gets spurred into fighting Vegeta, but like he predicted, is on the way to dying soon. But he fights like a fricken madman nonetheless and does fantastic despite the odds. Props for that.

When Vegeta survived the Genki-Dama, he had little time before Vegeta threw his Ki in all directions and knocked him unconscious. Plus he was like...half dead and all.

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Coward? - Chichi is yelling all up at him that he can't go to Namek and blah blah blah...and he tells her to shut up.

More than Goku ever did!

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Coward? - Dodoria, even stronger than Vegeta, slaughters a bunch of Nameks and GOHAN WANTS TO FIGHT HIM HEAD ON. Kuririn barely gets him to run instead.

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Coward? - Vegeta and Kuririn are both easily defeated by Reacoom, and yet Gohan stands firm and puts his heart into his attack, only to get a broken neck.

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Coward? - Gohan see's his dad has been possessed and is now trying to kill him. What's he do? Kicks his face around and mocks him. I remember there being a Filler which has him all coward like. BULLCRAP. He was a champ there.

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Coward? - Freeza kills his friend, and has a power level over a million. He is utterly stronger than anyone ever before and Gohan takes it upon himself to serve him his rear end on a platter. Of course, Freeza uncorks a bit more Ki and then reciprocates, but Gohan still fights hard then, and almost dies trying, never backs down.

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Coward? - Gohan was healed and ready to go at the one who almost killed him again, but is stopped by Piccolo. Then, when Freeza has hit a whole new level of power, he attacks him again and ALMOST WINS.

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Coward? - Freeza's true power is revealed, Dende is dead, Piccolo and Kuririn are terrified. Gohan just jumps at Freeza, leaving Piccolo and Kuririn to follow in...desperation.

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Coward? - Cell is utterly unstoppable and "kills" Piccolo. Gohan wants to go fight Cell. He wants to take on a being that could shatter even a Super Saiyan like nothing, when he himself isn't even close to a Super Saiyan.

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Coward? - So Gohan reaches a point where he doesn't approve of Violence. Alright, so he tells Cell this and Cell just attacks him more. He kicks Cell down but eventually ends up in a bear hug...yeah.

So Gohan wasn't exactly gung-ho at this point, but do I even need to say anything about when he unleashes his anger?

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I can't really comment on the events surrounding Dabra and Majin Boo because it'll turn into a whether or not Gohan was Ssj2 debate.

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And someone pretty much laid out the thing with Ultimate Gohan already, so I need not comment further on that.

I'm not seeing where exactly he's being a Coward.

Leotaku · Post by **Leotaku** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 7:30 am

Rocketman wrote:It would've been hilarious if Vegeta had ever had to train him.

But, being the son of his rival, Vegeta probably wouldn't want Gohan to surpass him too. He'd teach him to fight like crap.

Jerseymilk · Post by **Jerseymilk** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 8:39 am

Chaos Saiyajin wrote: I don't hate Gohan, I just hate the fact that Goku was brought back after Cell's death. If he were not, then I think Gohan might have kept his promise to his father, knowing he was dead for good.

That happened because it's what the fans wanted, not Toriyama. They whined until they got their way. And I think you're forgetting also that Goku had agreed with Chi-Chi that after fighting Cell, Gohan was to concentrate on his studies. And trust me, even if he did "slack off", judging by the way he handled those bank robbers, played sports at school, and remained at least even with Dabura, I'd say he didn't "slack off" that much. I'd like to see any of you guys be even 5% as good as he was, from the Great Saiyaman episodes to the tournament stuff.

Rocketman: Vegeta "selling himself into slavery" is being a bit overdramatic don't you think? Besdies which, going by your thinking, it's still just as much cheating as Gohan.

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 12:41 pm

Jerseymilk wrote:Rocketman: Vegeta "selling himself into slavery" is being a bit overdramatic don't you think? Besdies which, going by your thinking, it's still just as much cheating as Gohan.

I'm pretty sure that's about what Vegeta says he did. And it's nowhere near Gohan's level of cheating.

Vegeta:

SSj2 Gohan
Dabura
SSj2 Vegeta < starts here
SSj2 Goku < ends here
Fat Buu

Gohan:

SSj2 Gohan < starts here
Dabura
SSj2 Vegeta
SSj2 Goku
Fat Buu
Kid Buu
SSj3 Goku
Super Buu
SSj3 Gotenks
Mystic Gohan < ends here

Duo: You make some very good points. I've done some thinking on this topic, and I don't hate Gohan. I don't even really dislike him as a character.

What I dislike is it seems like he gets too much too easy. Aside from the Mystic powerup, there's his Random Number Generator rage boosts.

Plus, he's about ten years old, and goes SSj1, masters it, and goes SSj2 within a few months. Goku and Vegeta train for seven years straight and surpass him, so he just gets another 'magical hidden power' powerup. Bleh.

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 12:49 pm

When Gohan first went SSJ2 he became, by far, the strongest being in EXISTENCE (at that point). Not just the strongest in the universe, the strongest in everything: Heaven, Hell, The Universe, Dabura's realm- EVERYTHING. Then, by the time Cell is killed, he gets an uber-Zenkai. So yeah, considering he's never been a fighter by choice, I think he's earned the right to "slack off."

Victator Supreme · Post by **Victator Supreme** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 1:12 pm

I'm pretty sure that's about what Vegeta says he did. And it's nowhere near Gohan's level of cheating.

Um he killed a stadium full of people.

Post by **desirecampbell** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 1:39 pm

Victator Supreme wrote:
I'm pretty sure that's about what Vegeta says he did. And it's nowhere near Gohan's level of cheating.
Um he killed a stadium full of people.

So?

Duo · Post by **Duo** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 3:25 pm

I don't really care of people think Gohan is cheap or whatever, but I'll defend him to the death if you call him a coward. Glad to see my post that took me so long managed to sway one person.

But imagine if Gohan didn't get power from his emotional bursts. You know what that would mean? He would have control over that power, which means he would be that strong anyway, but it would be all the time.

That's what his Ultimate self was. He had control over all of his power, in fact, all of the power he could or ever would have. He was at the maximum his being could become.

Now while he didn't achieve it himself, it was still his power.

In the 7 years of "slacking off" he did study a lot, but he was still stronger than anyone else. Vegeta did manage to surpass him...because he is a full blooded warrior who did nothing but train. Gohan would have had a hard time staying a head even if he did pushups everyday or whatever.

I admit that it was kind of "cheap" or "easy" or whatever for him to be given the ability to access all of his power with ease, but it was still his power. If he didn't have that potential, he wouldn't have gotten the powerup.

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 3:50 pm

Actually it was more than just his power, since that's what's so special about Rou Kaioshin's technique, but I'm not arguing since I've fully agreed with you since the start, Duo.

His "random number generator" rage boosts, Rocketman, comes from his being half-human. If he were pure Saiyan, I wouldn't have been surprised if he went SSJ against Radditz.

Conan the SSJ · Post by **Conan the SSJ** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 6:00 pm

Dayspring wrote:Actually it was more than just his power, since that's what's so special about Rou Kaioshin's technique, but I'm not arguing since I've fully agreed with you since the start, Duo.

His "random number generator" rage boosts, Rocketman, comes from his being half-human. If he were pure Saiyan, I wouldn't have been surprised if he went SSJ against Radditz.

The reason Gohan's power had been so great had a major fact to do with the fact of him being a Saiyan/Earthling hybrid. If he were born a pure Saiyan, he would have been a low-level just like Goku was. Fact is, at 4 years old, Gohan had the potential as a Saiyan/Earthling to reach a power of 1,307 (1,370 in the dubs, whatever), but if he were a pure Saiyan, he would be FAR weaker, especially considering he never trained a day in his life on a planet like Earth. Even Goku, after learning the full art of Karate from Grandpa Gohan, still only had a power level of 10 at 11 years old (Assuming that's his age at the start of original DB). Also, Goku had a level of 2 when he was an infant, very pathetic according to Bardock, probably not enough power to crack a rock, but Gohan was able to (hidden powers and all) break through a tree when he wasn't even able to walk yet. So you see, Gohan's power had all along, literally, lied in his bloodline, though those "random number generator" fits, SSJ ascensions, and power-up from Old Kaioshin did ultimately assist him to reaching his maximum destined power. Well, you know what, I think Gohan, of all the Z warriors, deserved to become the strongest non-fused good guy just by sitting on his ass for 20 hours. IMO, DBZ was always his series, as mentioned before, he did get more screen time (and plot depth) than Goku.

Jerseymilk · Post by **Jerseymilk** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 6:25 pm

Rocketman wrote: Plus, he's about ten years old, and goes SSj1, masters it, and goes SSj2 within a few months. Goku and Vegeta train for seven years straight and surpass him, so he just gets another 'magical hidden power' powerup. Bleh.

Trunks and Goten are practically born with the ability and do it just for kicks by the time they're eight and seven. Yet that's not criticised. At least Gohan had to work extremely hard to reach SSJ. There are times when those two acted quite ungrateful and bratty with their strength and abilities.

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 7:24 pm

Jerseymilk wrote:
Rocketman wrote: Plus, he's about ten years old, and goes SSj1, masters it, and goes SSj2 within a few months. Goku and Vegeta train for seven years straight and surpass him, so he just gets another 'magical hidden power' powerup. Bleh.
Trunks and Goten are practically born with the ability and do it just for kicks by the time they're eight and seven. Yet that's not criticised. At least Gohan had to work extremely hard to reach SSJ. There are times when those two acted quite ungrateful and bratty with their strength and abilities.

Oh, I know. I don't like them either. Little bastards do in a couple of hours (at most) what took Goku seven years of training in the Afterlife? Hell no.