Supreme Kai

[Cure Dragon 255]

Ironically Gohan could have killed every enemy if Kaioshin hadnt fucked up.

[Lord Beerus]

I think Toriyama was trying to make Supreme Kai seem like a mysterious and unpredictable character, and those facial expressions emphasize how Supreme Kai seemed somewhat ambiguous in his nature.

and hatched what was probably the dumbest plan ever in regards to stopping Babidi. His character literally did nothing but fail at every turn.

Thank you. Somebody else gets it.

Worst part is; he's one of the few characters who doesn't get killed due to his idiotic plan.

Or for his constant mistakes like not warning the others about Buu's ability to absorb people. Great job buddy. Didn't think that was important then?

I honestly think what was worse was Supreme Kai not telling any of the Z-Fighters that Babidi had the power to control those with evil in their heart. Why the hell didn't he tell any of the Z-Fighters he could do that? If the Z-Fighters knew beforehand that Babidi had such an ability, then there's no way in hell they would have let Vegeta come to Babidi's spaceship with them. And because of that, the Majin Boo arc then never happens.

[DBZAOTA482]

Kaioshin had a chance to redeem himself when he tried to stop Goku and Vegeta from fighting by literally standing in the way and challenging Goku to get through him…. but then he pussies out against Goku's bluff of killing him.

Absolutely pathetic...

[dae428]

Kaioshin had a chance to redeem himself when he tried to stop Goku and Vegeta from fighting by literally standing in the way and challenging Goku to get through him…. but then he pussies out against Goku's bluff of killing him.

Absolutely pathetic...

I'm not really sure how that would've redeemed him. I mean they were going to fight regardless of whether or Kaioshin would have given them his blessing. If he did choose to try to stop the two it would've been a 2 vs 1 scenario where the 2 happened to individually be far superior to the 1. I guess it would've given him some man cred, but that would've just flushed down what little sense of being a proper planner he had with him down the drain. It just made more sense for him to cut his losses, accept what's happened, and try to prevent the resurrection of Boo with Gohan.

[FoolsGil]

Kaioshin had a chance to redeem himself when he tried to stop Goku and Vegeta from fighting by literally standing in the way and challenging Goku to get through him…. but then he pussies out against Goku's bluff of killing him.

Absolutely pathetic...

I don't think Goku was bluffing. But Supreme Kai shouldn't have pussied out: You would think killing a deity as high as Supreme Kai would have Yemma revoke Goku's day pass immediately. Babidi's plan would have been stopped then and there

[Dayspring]

Kaioshin had a chance to redeem himself when he tried to stop Goku and Vegeta from fighting by literally standing in the way and challenging Goku to get through him…. but then he pussies out against Goku's bluff of killing him.

Absolutely pathetic...

I'm not really sure how that would've redeemed him. I mean they were going to fight regardless of whether or Kaioshin would have given them his blessing. If he did choose to try to stop the two it would've been a 2 vs 1 scenario where the 2 happened to individually be far superior to the 1. I guess it would've given him some man cred, but that would've just flushed down what little sense of being a proper planner he had with him down the drain. It just made more sense for him to cut his losses, accept what's happened, and try to prevent the resurrection of Boo with Gohan.

Agreed. Goku only threatened to attack him because he knew there was no logic in Kaioshin calling his bluff. Kaioshin's goal is to prevent them from fighting. Taking them both on in a battle to the death does the exact opposite of that. Then, once Kaioshin is dead, they'd have fought anyway. Kaioshin completely made the right call.

[DBZAOTA482]

Kaioshin had a chance to redeem himself when he tried to stop Goku and Vegeta from fighting by literally standing in the way and challenging Goku to get through him…. but then he pussies out against Goku's bluff of killing him.

Absolutely pathetic...

I don't think Goku was bluffing. But Supreme Kai shouldn't have pussied out: You would think killing a deity as high as Supreme Kai would have Yemma revoke Goku's day pass immediately. Babidi's plan would have been stopped then and there

I seriously doubt Goku would try to kill anyone who's not remotely a threat to him (he even apologized to Kaioshin afterwards) and even if he really did intend on killing Kaioshin I'd doubt that'd revoke his day pass considering he was doing what he felt was right.

Also, I don't know what Kaioshin was even trying to accomplish in the first place. The fight was gonna happen anyways, and is he willing to just stand there and let Vegeta kill all those people (and possibly Kaioshin himself) which can potentially revive Majin Boo?

[LuckyCat]

I'm probably going to take some fire for this, but Kaioshin is a bit like Future Trunks from the previous arc. He starts off being powerful young friend of the heroes with message warning of a lurking evil on Earth. After the evil awakes, Kaioshin basically has nothing else left he can do but contribute his special powers here and there (Saving Gohan, Z Sword, teleportation). In terms of contribution, I could say the same thing about Future Trunks as after his spectacular entrance, he was demoted to Yamcha level of ignorance for the rest of the fights in Cell saga.

[Kid Buu]

I'm probably going to take some fire for this, but Kaioshin is a bit like Future Trunks from the previous arc. He starts of being powerful young friend of the heroes with message warning of a lurking evil on Earth. After the evil awakes, Kaioshin basically has nothing else left he can do but contribute his special powers here and there (Saving Gohan, Z Sword, teleportation). I could say the same thing about Future Trunks as after his spectacular entrance, he was demoted to Yamcha level of ignorance for the rest of the fights in Cell saga.

Actually, I always made that connection too. He's basically more of a plot device for introducing the threat of the new antagonists rather than a new fighter.

Also, the fact that I quoted your two most recent posts in a row is a coincidence, and no stalking involved whatsoever.

[DBZAOTA482]

I'm probably going to take some fire for this, but Kaioshin is a bit like Future Trunks from the previous arc. He starts of being powerful young friend of the heroes with message warning of a lurking evil on Earth. After the evil awakes, Kaioshin basically has nothing else left he can do but contribute his special powers here and there (Saving Gohan, Z Sword, teleportation). I could say the same thing about Future Trunks as after his spectacular entrance, he was demoted to Yamcha level of ignorance for the rest of the fights in Cell saga.

But Trunks was actually right about the androids (in fact, they were stronger than the ones from his future) unlike Kaioshin who overestimated Babidi's henchmen and underestimated the Saiyan to a ridiculous degree.

He was right about Dabra, though.

[Olympian]

I'm probably going to take some fire for this, but Kaioshin is a bit like Future Trunks from the previous arc. He starts off being powerful young friend of the heroes with message warning of a lurking evil on Earth. After the evil awakes, Kaioshin basically has nothing else left he can do but contribute his special powers here and there (Saving Gohan, Z Sword, teleportation). In terms of contribution, I could say the same thing about Future Trunks as after his spectacular entrance, he was demoted to Yamcha level of ignorance for the rest of the fights in Cell saga.

Wouldn`t that be Vegeta level of ignorance

[Polyphase Avatron]

Or for his constant mistakes like not warning the others about Buu's ability to absorb people. Great job buddy. Didn't think that was important then?

I honestly think what was worse was Supreme Kai not telling any of the Z-Fighters that Babidi had the power to control those with evil in their heart. Why the hell didn't he tell any of the Z-Fighters he could do that? If the Z-Fighters knew beforehand that Babidi had such an ability, then there's no way in hell they would have let Vegeta come to Babidi's spaceship with them. And because of that, the Majin Boo arc then never happens.[/quote]

You really think Vegeta would be ok with just being left behind like that?

[DBZAOTA482]

Or for his constant mistakes like not warning the others about Buu's ability to absorb people. Great job buddy. Didn't think that was important then?

I honestly think what was worse was Supreme Kai not telling any of the Z-Fighters that Babidi had the power to control those with evil in their heart. Why the hell didn't he tell any of the Z-Fighters he could do that? If the Z-Fighters knew beforehand that Babidi had such an ability, then there's no way in hell they would have let Vegeta come to Babidi's spaceship with them. And because of that, the Majin Boo arc then never happens.

You really think Vegeta would be ok with just being left behind like that?[/quote]
Vegeta only came cuz Goku let him. Also, Kaioshin can read their souls by shaking their hands so…..

[Puto]

I honestly think what was worse was Supreme Kai not telling any of the Z-Fighters that Babidi had the power to control those with evil in their heart. Why the hell didn't he tell any of the Z-Fighters he could do that? If the Z-Fighters knew beforehand that Babidi had such an ability, then there's no way in hell they would have let Vegeta come to Babidi's spaceship with them. And because of that, the Majin Boo arc then never happens.

He DID warn them about that. They even joked that maybe they should have left Piccolo behind because of that.

[supercat]

He definitely proved to be quite a disappointment after being introduced in such an eerily mysterious fashion. I would have liked to see him retain some of his cocky, smug, and at the same time very mysterious persona during certain events, or while interacting with certain characters, even after we started to see his fear of Buu surface.

[Sanyo96]

Supreme Kai lost all his friends and only had one person around him for millions of years, I think spending that much time alone with only one person would make you weird.

[LuckyCat]

Supreme Kai lost all his friends and only had one person around him for millions of years, I think spending that much time alone with only one person would make you weird.

You'd think with access to Kibito's teleportation he'd be taking a grand tour of the universe he was supposed to be watching.

[supercat]

I'm probably going to take some fire for this, but Kaioshin is a bit like Future Trunks from the previous arc. He starts off being powerful young friend of the heroes with message warning of a lurking evil on Earth. After the evil awakes, Kaioshin basically has nothing else left he can do but contribute his special powers here and there (Saving Gohan, Z Sword, teleportation). In terms of contribution, I could say the same thing about Future Trunks as after his spectacular entrance, he was demoted to Yamcha level of ignorance for the rest of the fights in Cell saga.

Eastern Kaioshin and Future Trunks do share some similarities. Aside from the fact that they were both initially introduced with exceptionally confident personas, they both humiliated Frieza (Trunks physically, and Eastern Kaioshin verbally) and indirectly used him as a measuring stick to showcase their own power, as well as the upcoming enemy's power. Shortly after, both characters portray a major transition in their personalities as they go from portraying the utmost confidence to expressing high degrees of concern.

I must say, however, that the transition in personality that Eastern Kaioshin was shown to undergo was far more of a substantial change. One can argue that his concerns regarding Puipui and Yakon was just an emphasis on maintaining caution, but I still don't see why he couldn't have maintained some level of the same confidence he debuted with; at least until Buu was released, or they were confronted by Dabura. Despite this, his survival from a major thrashing against the main villain of the arc, and his role as being a channel for the Z-Fighters to obtain new resources (Z-Sword, Potara Earrings, Elder Kai, and Instant Transmission), all put him above Yamcha in my opinion.

I don't feel either Trunks or Eastern Kaioshin have been reduced to Yamcha's level. I wouldn't even call the fear displayed by Trunks as a trait that would be in line with cowardice. He was simply taking a strategic approach, and doing his best to eliminate all variables that may accentuate the threat that he is so well aware of. In addition, with all the amazing feats he's displayed (trashing Semi-perfect Cell, taking down the Androids in the future, and obliterating Imperfect Cell in his timeline), I'd say he more than redeemed himself for any subtle hint of subjectively cowardly behavior that he may have indirectly displayed.

[Polyphase Avatron]

Goku learned IT from the Yardrat race, not Kaioshin.

[supercat]

Goku learned IT from the Yardrat race, not Kaioshin.

I'm fully aware of that, and that was not what I was talking about. I was referring to how Kibitoshin used Instantaneous Movement to save Goku and Vegeta from Kid Buu. Didn't mean to write Instant Transmission.