Supreme Kai

[NeoKING]

Why was Supreme Kai portrayed as such a weirdo? All he did was make Toriyama-styled rape faces when he first met the Dragon Team, and hatched what was probably the dumbest plan ever in regards to stopping Babidi. His character literally did nothing but fail at every turn.

[Neshawn]

Well... His plan to find babidi was pretty smart by getting spovich (spelling probably wrong) and yamu to take gohans energy. Everything else I feel like was out of his control in regards to buu being hatched. I do agree to some extent that for a kai he did not plan things as well as one would think.

[Lord Beerus]

I think Toriyama was trying to make Supreme Kai seem like a mysterious and unpredictable character, and those facial expressions emphasize how Supreme Kai seemed somewhat ambiguous in his nature.

and hatched what was probably the dumbest plan ever in regards to stopping Babidi. His character literally did nothing but fail at every turn.

Thank you. Somebody else gets it.

[CashmanX]

While the eastern Kaioshin definitely shoulders some of the blame for being the eternal noob, I don't feel as though he's as entirely incompetent as most people make him out to be.

First of all, his original plan is pretty sound. Sneak up on Babidi & co. and take them out as quickly as possible without dicking around. The wrench in the plans was that after Dabra took out everyone else, he was left with three saiyans....

...who proceeded to dick around and end up releasing Majin Boo in the end after all.Vegeta basically sabotaged his entire plan right out from under him by intentionally letting Babidi give him the Majin power up just so he could fight Goku. Goku is no better by holding his battle with Vegeta over the revival of Majin Boo by not using SSJ3 for the sake of Vegeta's pride.

Had the main cast not been so overconfident and done the smart thing by not playing right into Babidi's hand by treating the whole event as a game, Boo would have never been released.

[Polyphase Avatron]

Well he didn't know how strong the Saiyans were so he wasn't expecting Babidi to get so much ki from them. He figured they would have to make a lot of trips and drain a lot of people, so he would just follow them back after the first trip and there would be no danger of Buu being released. He also didn't expect that Babidi had controlled someone as strong as Dabura.

Remove these factors and his plan would have worked fine. Spopovich and Yamu drain someone relatively weak, Kaioshin and Kibito follow them back to Babidi's spaceship, they defeat Babidi's mooks, Puipui, and Yakon, and kill Babidi. Buu remains sealed.

[fadeddreams5]

Goku didn't go SSJ3 because that's a last resort sort of transformation that would have depleted his time on Earth. He thought he could take out Vegeta as a SSJ2, but the latter ended up being much more difficult than he imagined.

As for Kaioshin, as mentioned, his plan was sound, but Vegeta, as always, ruined everything. That said, I hate the 180 the Kaioshin had. He was an ambiguous and mysterious figure, but he quickly became one of the biggest wimps in the series.

[Lord Beerus]

While the eastern Kaioshin definitely shoulders some of the blame for being the eternal noob, I don't feel as though he's as entirely incompetent as most people make him out to be.

First of all, his original plan is pretty sound. Sneak up on Babidi & co. and take them out as quickly as possible without dicking around. The wrench in the plans was that after Dabra took out everyone else, he was left with three saiyans....

...who proceeded to dick around and end up releasing Majin Boo in the end after all.Vegeta basically sabotaged his entire plan right out from under him by intentionally letting Babidi give him the Majin power up just so he could fight Goku. Goku is no better by holding his battle with Vegeta over the revival of Majin Boo by not using SSJ3 for the sake of Vegeta's pride.

Had the main cast not been so overconfident and done the smart thing by not playing right into Babidi's hand by treating the whole event as a game, Boo would have never been released.

Okay, I'll admit the Saiyans take a good share of the blame for Majin Boo being released. But they were already up shit creek without a paddle when Piccolo, Krillin and Kibito bit the dust. If Piccolo, Kibito and Krillin were still around they could have provided proper strategy and planning in how to take of Babidi. Piccolo could have take care of Pui Pui, Gohan could have taken care of Yakon and Vegeta could have taken care of Dabra easily. Then all of Babidi's henchmen are dead. Then Supreme Kai and Kibito takes care of Babidi, Goku and Krillin destroy Majin Boo's cocoon and case closed. The Majin Boo arc ends right there and for a bonus, everybody get a fair share of the spotlight, too.

[DBZAOTA482]

And don't forget who's fault it is that Kibito died, and Piccolo and Kuririn were turned into stone...

[VegettoEX]

All he did was make Toriyama-styled rape faces

You think maybe we could come up with a better way to describe things?

[Tyro]

I quite liked the creepy feeling Kaioshin gave off behind that weird smile all the time. It really added to the guy's mysteriousness. Is he a good guy or bad guy? Is he gonna be really strong or have strange powers? How does he know Goku?

[fadeddreams5]

That description is fairly accurate.

Spoiler:

[Gyt Kaliba]

I hate to just quote something from a prior thread, but I feel it's probably the best description of what's 'up' with the Kaioshin that I've seen.

East Kaioshin was the youngest, weakest, and least experienced of all the Kaioshin. He lived in a time of peace, when suddenly, a monster appeared out of nowhere, and killed all of his peers. He got lucky, and managed to ensure that the monster got sealed, but lacked the power to destroy it. So he hides it on Earth.

Kaioshin spends the next several thousand years doing the job of four Kaioshin's; something he obviously was not prepared for. For all of these years, the images of his dead friends (family?) are seared into his brain. He knows that, at any time, there is a chance that the monster can be awakened.

Thousands of years later, he finds out that the wizard who created the monster had a son, who is also a powerful magician. He knows that the son's goal is to free his father's creation. So, he sets out to find Babidi, while neglecting his observation of the universe. As a consequence, he is unaware of the growing power of the Saiyans on Earth.

He arrives on Earth, and, while outwardly appearing confident and mysterious, on the inside he is torn. He chooses to take a gamble, allowing a powerful fighter to fall in order to follow Babidi's minions back to his ship. Along the way, he gains powerful allies in the Saiyans, but due to his focusing on finding Babidi, he is unaware of their true strength.

They arrive at the ship, and Kaioshin sees the ruler of the Demon Realm, enslaved by Babidi. He notices that Babidi's henchmen all have the same "M" symbol that the monster did. Kaioshin, overwhelmed by his memories of the past, starts behaving irrationally, doubting the powers of his comrades, and overestimating his enemies, due to their association with the monster. He is further shaken when his allies, who are mere mortals, prove to be even stronger than he himself, the god of gods, is. In only a few hours on Earth, his entire perception of his place in the universe has been shaken, and he is clearly out of his depth.

So, in conclusion, Kaioshin has a massive case of PTSD, and it's amplified by seeing foes who have some relation to Majin Buu.

I mean, that's obviously a lot deeper thinking than Toriyama himself ever would have put into it, but I'd be hard pressed to say it didn't all make perfect sense to me. That and, while Kaioshin's screw-ups are a little more constant, it's not like it's the first time we've seen that a DB God is far from infallible. Kami resorted to trickery and was basically going to commit suicide just to stop Piccolo. Kaio-sama didn't manage to keep track of time well enough to realize he needed to send Goku back a little earlier than he did. It's a recurring thing that, for all their Godliness, the Gods are just people too.

[NeoKING]

All he did was make Toriyama-styled rape faces

You think maybe we could come up with a better way to describe things?

You're not contributing to the thread.

[DerekPadula]

All he did was make Toriyama-styled rape faces

You think maybe we could come up with a better way to describe things?

You're not contributing to the thread.

Are you aware that VegettoEX is the owner of this site? He's advising you not to mention rape in such a nonchalant way, and to be more sensitive to readers who, you know, may have been raped.

[NeoKING]

Are you aware that VegettoEX is the owner of this site? He's advising you not to mention rape in such a nonchalant way, and to be more sensitive to readers who, you know, may have been raped.

I am aware that he's the owner. I'm also aware that nowhere in the forum guidelines does it say I have to tolerate him making smart-alecky comments instead of actually contributing to the thread.

And apologies to all rape victims on the site.

[fadeddreams5]

Are you aware that VegettoEX is the owner of this site? He's advising you not to mention rape in such a nonchalant way, and to be more sensitive to readers who, you know, may have been raped.

I am aware that he's the owner. I'm also aware that nowhere in the forum guidelines does it say I have to tolerate him making smart-alecky comments instead of actually contributing to the thread.

"Fuck da POE-LEASE!"

I hate to just quote something from a prior thread, but I feel it's probably the best description of what's 'up' with the Kaioshin that I've seen.

East Kaioshin was the youngest, weakest, and least experienced of all the Kaioshin. He lived in a time of peace, when suddenly, a monster appeared out of nowhere, and killed all of his peers. He got lucky, and managed to ensure that the monster got sealed, but lacked the power to destroy it. So he hides it on Earth.

Kaioshin spends the next several thousand years doing the job of four Kaioshin's; something he obviously was not prepared for. For all of these years, the images of his dead friends (family?) are seared into his brain. He knows that, at any time, there is a chance that the monster can be awakened.

Thousands of years later, he finds out that the wizard who created the monster had a son, who is also a powerful magician. He knows that the son's goal is to free his father's creation. So, he sets out to find Babidi, while neglecting his observation of the universe. As a consequence, he is unaware of the growing power of the Saiyans on Earth.

He arrives on Earth, and, while outwardly appearing confident and mysterious, on the inside he is torn. He chooses to take a gamble, allowing a powerful fighter to fall in order to follow Babidi's minions back to his ship. Along the way, he gains powerful allies in the Saiyans, but due to his focusing on finding Babidi, he is unaware of their true strength.

They arrive at the ship, and Kaioshin sees the ruler of the Demon Realm, enslaved by Babidi. He notices that Babidi's henchmen all have the same "M" symbol that the monster did. Kaioshin, overwhelmed by his memories of the past, starts behaving irrationally, doubting the powers of his comrades, and overestimating his enemies, due to their association with the monster. He is further shaken when his allies, who are mere mortals, prove to be even stronger than he himself, the god of gods, is. In only a few hours on Earth, his entire perception of his place in the universe has been shaken, and he is clearly out of his depth.

So, in conclusion, Kaioshin has a massive case of PTSD, and it's amplified by seeing foes who have some relation to Majin Buu.

I mean, that's obviously a lot deeper thinking than Toriyama himself ever would have put into it, but I'd be hard pressed to say it didn't all make perfect sense to me. That and, while Kaioshin's screw-ups are a little more constant, it's not like it's the first time we've seen that a DB God is far from infallible. Kami resorted to trickery and was basically going to commit suicide just to stop Piccolo. Kaio-sama didn't manage to keep track of time well enough to realize he needed to send Goku back a little earlier than he did. It's a recurring thing that, for all their Godliness, the Gods are just people too.

I liked that analysis. Definitely not the sort of thing Toriyama probably even considered when he drew those panels, but it makes sense. He's a tragic figure.

What doesn't make sense to me is that his comrades were killed, yet they're gone for good. They're Kaioshin, so how come their deaths resulted in them disappearing forever? Old Kai clearly remained in the same spot he died when he gave his life to Goku. My only theory is that Kid Buu killed them twice each (excluding those he absorbed).

[TripleRach]

I am aware that he's the owner. I'm also aware that nowhere in the forum guidelines does it say I have to tolerate him making smart-alecky comments instead of actually contributing to the thread.

Try Rule #7.

Leave the moderation to the moderators, be respectful of the them and their work — they are here to have fun just as much as you are, and any advice they give you is for the better of everyone’s enjoyment.

I don't know why you'd view that particular suggestion as "smart-alecky" unless there's been a misunderstanding. He was suggesting that you change it yourself to something less offensive, as opposed to someone editing it for you or some other type of action.

[DBZAOTA482]

Are you aware that VegettoEX is the owner of this site? He's advising you not to mention rape in such a nonchalant way, and to be more sensitive to readers who, you know, may have been raped.

I am aware that he's the owner. I'm also aware that nowhere in the forum guidelines does it say I have to tolerate him making smart-alecky comments instead of actually contributing to the thread.

"Fuck da POE-LEASE!"

Thug life.

Anways, I agree it's a nice analysis but I still think Kaioshin's a dumbass.

[sbk]

It was like his character rewritten on the spot

Like in the beginning he was so mysterious and menacing looking, Goku thought he was really strong, and Piccolo feared him. And then he just became comic relief character

[Akyon]

I think Toriyama was trying to make Supreme Kai seem like a mysterious and unpredictable character, and those facial expressions emphasize how Supreme Kai seemed somewhat ambiguous in his nature.

and hatched what was probably the dumbest plan ever in regards to stopping Babidi. His character literally did nothing but fail at every turn.

Thank you. Somebody else gets it.

Worst part is; he's one of the few characters who doesn't get killed due to his idiotic plan.

Or for his constant mistakes like not warning the others about Buu's ability to absorb people. Great job buddy. Didn't think that was important then?