How exactly Gohan could have been better in the Boo arc

[SMKirbyZX]

Gohan was fine in the Buu Arc.

The problem was building him up so much and then just dumping him at the end of it for Goku again.

This is exactly what I was planning to write. The real problem with Gohan in Buu arc is that none of his story threads get resolved (What happened with the gold fighter, did the Orange Star School learn to accept his mutant abilities, was Great Saiya Man still a thing, does Gohan still have his Mystic powers from Elder Kai?)

Granted, you could pretty much make your own guesses what happens. But it would make more sense for the resolution of the Buu arc to at least mention some problems brought up with Gohan in its intro and mid-chapters.

Yeah, the Boo arc ending was pretty rushed wasn't it? Maybe they thought of it as magic tricks.

[ABED]

Gohan was fine in the Buu Arc.

The problem was building him up so much and then just dumping him at the end of it for Goku again.

This is exactly what I was planning to write. The real problem with Gohan in Buu arc is that none of his story threads get resolved (What happened with the gold fighter, did the Orange Star School learn to accept his mutant abilities, was Great Saiya Man still a thing, does Gohan still have his Mystic powers from Elder Kai?

Granted, you could pretty much make your own guesses what happens. But it would make more sense for the resolution of the Buu arc to at least mention some problems brought up with Gohan in its intro chapters.

His characterization was fine though.

The Gold fighter was an identity that was abandoned when he figured out a better disguise, and the Great Saiyaman identity was discovered so I don't think that is an unresolved thread, and how is whether Gohan having his Mystic powers a plot thread that needs to be resolved?

[Doctor.]

I have absolutely no problems with Gohan in the Boo arc. In fact, barring Future Gohan, it's easily my favourite version of the character. His personality was kept intact, he preferred studying over training and the result of that was shown in the Boo arc: he lost a lot of power and constantly beat himself up over that and kept lamenting that he slacked off. As someone here on Kanzenshuu put it, the Elder Kaioshin power-up was a psychological battle. While everyone on Earth was dying, Gohan had to live with it all happening while he was just standing around doing absolutely nothing. It was a lesson and I've always thought that he had developed as a character because of it, that he had finally filled in the shoes of his father and that he was prepared to be the protector Earth needed when he came to face Super Boo.

Never looked at it that way. That's a pretty good interpretation. However, like I said before, it doesn't have to be fighting training. Make it something like Karin's training, where a simple task is very difficult, but proves to have a meaningful purpose and result. Maybe it could be something trivial. Granted, the whole waiting thing was the same thing, Gohan didn't really learn much from the power up. What exactly did he learn from the psychological battle? How did this effect him mentally for the battle against Boo, besides giving him confidence (in other words, how did it make him wiser or stronger in the mindset of battle?)

I think it changed him a lot. Go back to the fight with Cell, what happened? He got cocky and dragged on the fight in order to make Cell suffer. What happened with Super Boo? Contrary to what anime filler and padding might make you believe, in the manga their fight was very, very short and Gohan was committed to take Boo's life without fooling around.

[ABED]

I think Gohan could've played a role in the final fight, but I like the fight ending with 1 - Goku winning, and 2 - the Genki Dama FINALLY working.

[LuckyCat]

The Gold fighter was an identity that was abandoned when he figured out a better disguise, and the Great Saiyaman identity was discovered so I don't think that is an unresolved thread, and how is whether Gohan having his Mystic powers a plot thread that needs to be resolved?

Only Videl knew about it (The other students still thought he was just pretending to be the GSM), so that goes back to Gohan's High School and Saiyan acceptance. They spent a few good chapters introducing it, why not show a panel or two with Videl covering for him in high school later?

And Mystic Gohan, did it ever take? Did Gohan learn that you need to train your mind and body like Vegeta said? I can write my own answers, but I would like to have had Toriyama touch up on that. Toriyama's writing is usually better at finishing subplots.

[ABED]

The Gold fighter was an identity that was abandoned when he figured out a better disguise, and the Great Saiyaman identity was discovered so I don't think that is an unresolved thread, and how is whether Gohan having his Mystic powers a plot thread that needs to be resolved?

<br abp="689">Only Videl knew about it (The other students still thought he was just pretending to be the GSM), so that goes back to Gohan's High School and Saiyan acceptance. They spent a few good chapters introducing it, why not show a panel or two with Videl covering for him in high school later?<br abp="690"><br abp="691">And Mystic Gohan, did it ever take? Did Gohan learn that you need to train your mind and body like Vegeta said? I can write my own answers, but I would like to have had Toriyama touch up on that. Toriyama's writing is usually better at finishing subplots.

Pretty sure they knew he wasn't pretending when he turned SS2 in front of the whole stadium. Whether the mystic Gohan thing took isn't a subplot, you're asking about the mechanics (for lack of a better term) of the power up.

[LuckyCat]

Pretty sure they knew he wasn't pretending when he turned SS2 in front of the whole stadium. Whether the mystic Gohan thing took isn't a subplot, you're asking about the mechanics (for lack of a better term) of the power up.

It's still left to the audience to decide, like you just did.

Regardless, this is just a tip of the iceberg of Buu saga's problems which I won't go into for the sake of staying on topic.

[ABED]

Pretty sure they knew he wasn't pretending when he turned SS2 in front of the whole stadium. Whether the mystic Gohan thing took isn't a subplot, you're asking about the mechanics (for lack of a better term) of the power up.

It's still left to the audience to decide, like you just did.

Regardless, this is just a tip of the iceberg of Buu saga's problems which I won't go into for the sake of staying on topic.

It's reading between the lines. Do you really need a cutaway to the audience to get that they can see with their own two eyes Gohan transforming? This is a good moment to trust the audience to reach the logical conclusion.

The Buu arc's problems are more due to the lack of sense Buu's transformations have, Toriyama's by the seat of his pants writing style being very evident in this arc (e.g. Goku having SS3, but fighting and allowing Buu out, then saying he couldn't win, then he could), and the amount of comedy undercut any semblance of tension. Gohan not being the hero isn't a big issue.

[dbzfan7]

I don't think he was too bad in the Boo arc....coulda been better sure as some people have already said. What was bad was the horrid end. We still coulda had Goku and the Genki Dama, without screwing up everything else.

[LuckyCat]

It's reading between the lines. Do you really need a cutaway to the audience to get that they can see with their own two eyes Gohan transforming? This is a good moment to trust the audience to reach the logical conclusion.

I wouldn't advocate Toriyama spell out every reaction. But if the thread's question is how to make Gohan better, in Buu I think the answer lies in following up on Gohan's early stories. I'm reminded now of interview where Toriyama said he couldn't write romance, which may explain why he stopped writing the Gohan and Videl story. It's too bad, a little more story in that department could've given Gohan more depth. Think about how well Android #18 and Krillin's romance was touched upon through the entire Android Cell saga. I think that really helped Krillin's and 18's characters.

We still coulda had Goku and the Genki Dama, without screwing up everything else.

Yes, Gohan could've been at that fight or helping Dende find Namek's balls or any of number of stories. Instead Toriyama decided to drop a bridge on him.

[Rocketman]

There isn't anything wrong with Gohan's character or portrayal in the Buu arc. The problem is the story can't stay away from Goku.

In the early section, there's a whole unique setup with Gohan being blackmailed by Videl and trying to keep his powers secret as Vegeta challenges him in friendly competition. Then Goku barges in and consumes all the plots - Gohan's powers are revealed and the whole issue is thrown away in like two panels never to be seen again, the blackmail is completely forgotten, and Vegeta instantly reverts to "BWAAH KAKAROT I SELL MY SOUL TO FITE U".

Then later after an honestly touching goodbye where Goku outright says "you'll never see me again, it's on you now, kid", Gohan returns to Earth, potential fully realized, a stonecold badass ready to save everyone...and then at the first spot of trouble WELP BETTER SEND GOKU IN. Never mind that Gohan survives the whole 30 minutes vs Buutenks, never mind that Vegeta could throw a kienzan just as well and is already on the way, never mind that even fucking Kibitiokai could teleport in and zap Buu to run out those last few seconds before the fusion is over, KILL GOD, REVIVE GOKU. And once again, as soon as Goku's back, Gohan suddenly loses all competence and gets swept aside.

[The Desert Bandit]

I do admit that I see where you're coming from. However, I don't think that Gohan is as bad in the Buu Saga as people make him out to be. Gohan probably knew that the Earth would be endanger, and chances are that he wanted to train. However, Chi-Chi would forbid him from doing so. Gohan is about 17 in the Buu Saga (I could be wrong on that, but I know that it's around that age). He's still living under Chi-Chi's roof and rules. Indeed, he didn't defeat Dabura. but he put up a good fight against him. It wasn't like Dabura was overwhelming him.

Next up, Gohan did pummel Super Buu to a pulp. Sure, he did start losing once he absorbed Piccolo and Gotenks, but this doesn't really make him a bad character. It's pretty impressive he even managed to survive the fight against a warrior who is Super Buu + Piccolo + Gotenks. Besides, we agreed that Gohan isn't a fighter at heart. But using his strength to protect people is what he learned about during the Cell Games. We don't need him to go through that again. It's really just Chi-Chi and her care for studying over the protection of the Earth.

BUT! This doesn't meant that Gohan isn't actually downgraded when compared to how he was in the previous Sagas. I admit, Gohan was disappointing in the Buu Saga. I just don't feel he was as bad as people made him out to be. He was far superior as a kid/teenager. I feel that Gohan really started to suck come the BoG and RoF (Also GT, if you count that, but everyone except Goku sucked in there).

As for what you said, that would make Gohan more useful without removing any usefulness from other characters. In fact, I think it would boost Gohan's role to the point of being just as cool as he was when he was younger. While I don't mind Goku taking the spotlight as a protagonist should, I too believe that Goku stealing the plot had to do with Gohan's fall.

[ABED]

Gohan returns to Earth, potential fully realized,

Like it was numerous times before.

Goku's rivalry with Vegeta reaching its conclusion is more interesting than Videl's blackmail which didn't need to be resolved.

[sbk]

Gohan returns to Earth, potential fully realized,

Like it was numerous times before.

It only happened during the Cell Games and the Buu arc

I mean it would've been nice if he actually trained with Old Kai, rather than just sitting there getting his power/potential drawn out.

But what's so different between the Old Kai powerup and the holy water, zenkais, Piccolo's various fusions, Vegeta's Majin boost, SSJG, etc? Gohan isn't the only one that gets multiple asspull power-ups

[ABED]

Gohan returns to Earth, potential fully realized,

<br abp="693">Like it was numerous times before.

It only happened during the Cell Games and the Buu arc<br abp="694"><br abp="695">I mean it would've been nice if he actually trained with Old Kai, rather than just sitting there getting his power/potential drawn out.<br abp="696"><br abp="697">But what's so different between the Old Kai powerup and the holy water, zenkais, Piccolo's various fusions, Vegeta's Majin boost, SSJG, etc? Gohan isn't the only one that gets multiple asspull power-ups

There's also the Freeza arc. Even in the Saiyan arc, while it's not explicitly stated, Gohan's potential was realized. He was powerful and finally learned how to tap into that power and utilize it.

The big difference is that unlike those boosts, not all of them mere gimmicks (asspull is an obnoxious term), none of them said Gohan is now unlocking his potential.

[Rocketman]

Besides, we agreed that Gohan isn't a fighter at heart.

He is after the Mystic ritual.

[FoolsGil]

Well I liked the original idea about the Z Sword - A magic weapon that nullifies Buu's elastic abilities. Because for me, the only thing I disliked about Gohan in the Buu Saga was he failed after getting such a ridiculous power up - It was a complete waste of time. Now, if he didn't get that power up, and he just had the sword, and all that sword training got him to a sufficient level to take on Super Buu, that would have been great; and if the same events played out, I'd have no problem with him getting beaten up, absorbed by Buu, and living the rest of his life as a scholar.

[jcogginsa]

I didn't mind Gohan in the Buu Arc, though i do like your ideas.

What i would have done is have Old Kai's magic allow Gohan to Train for the seven years he missed out on. It wouldn't change the past, it'd take place in an illusory world and take up about 20 hours in the real world.

After that, he goes to earth and starts kicking Super Buu's ass, until Buu Absorbs Piccolo which lets him outwit Gohan. Then Things mostly proceed as canon

[DBZAOTA482]

Not fuck around with Majin Boo

Have him try to beat the pink pile of hubba bubba to death and maybe Boo surprises him with the absorption technique against Gotenks not Gohan basically letting him. Gohan saves the day, in anime filler he and Videl have a mini-Saga like Goku and Chi-Chi did in the anime, and Gohan become the man of the house... at least till he gets married.

I don't hold it against him for not training over the years. Altruist motives can only push you so far and people tend to just lose incentive when they don't have something to work for.

[Kamiccolo9]

I don't hold it against him for not training over the years. Altruist motives can only push you so far and people tend to just lose incentive when they don't have something to work for.

Yeah. I'm pretty sure that Gohan didn't just beat Cell and decide, then and there, to never train again. He probably kept it up for a little bit, but after year after year with nothing happening, he probably felt it wasn't necessary anymore. And any reasonable person would agree with him. I mean, who expects an eldritch horror to be buried on your planet only to be woken up by an evil wizard who sets your long-dead father and his mellowed out rival up for a grudge match in order to power said monster?

Gohan didn't do anything wrong by slacking off.