Goku actually is a little simplified in Dragon Ball Super, or has been so far. I'm expecting that'll dissipate somewhat as we get into the material Toriyama's plotted for an actual TV serial. It seems better from Goku's brief moments so far.
But yeah -- I think it's rather hard to ignore. There's a pretty clear difference between him here and even in GT, which I think -- weirdly enough, even with his amplified childish traits, hit a latter-day, hyper-bored, but still-matured Goku rather well.
Didn't Toriyama say once that he was always upset of how Toei portrayed Goku as an hero? Maybe Goku getting serious in fights and acting like the hero/defender is what he meant by that. Super's Goku might be what Toriyama originally wanted with Z.
fadeddreams5 wrote:Goku in Super is not how Goku is supposed to be. He's more reminiscent to his Abridged self in this series.
It's almost like I'm reading the following: "Goku was OOC throughout DBZ. Super portrays the REAL Goku, as he was in early DB"
Then again I can admit that he has been acting a bit off in Super. Not as serious as in Z but I think that can also be because of the more light hearted tone Toei is taking with Super.
Yeah, he was upset that they often played up his heroism in their original content and downplayed his selfishness. Despite Super!Goku's depiction being closer to the manga incarnation than what we used to get in Toei's original content, he's still not acting like Toriyama!Goku in the manga either. Cipher has said it the best thus far. Compared to where we left off with him in the Buu Arc, often he's been simplified by certain writers.
You can argue potential regression of his values or whatever for the Battle of Gods and Resurrection "F" films, but he's much more inline with where Toriyama left off with him (for good reason). In Super, he ranges from being pretty close to accurate to being much more childish...and dumber, which is often further exaggerated for the sake of a gag (Goku not being able to explain that they were going to a tournament instead of a picnic in Episode 30 is kinda painful). Part of this likely lies in the fact that we had a handful of writers working on the series and each of them had their own interpretations of who the characters are, which causes them to fluctuate in personality.
I'm hoping that subsides a bit now that King Ryu has been promoted to head composer for the scripts.
Direct translations of the Korean DB Online timeline and guidebook.
My personal "canon" and BP list. (Coming Soon)
TheDevilsCorpse wrote:Which is often further exaggerated for the sake of a gag.
This is a problem with Super as a whole, the writers are so obsessed with gags that it's ruining the characters and going against their previous developments.
Take Chi Chi for example, in Z she let Goku train Gohan to fight Cell and trained Goten herself but in Super she was against Goku training with Whis to the point where she made a complete fool out of herself to prevent him for going.
The reason ? the writers thought it was funny so why not.
July 9th 2018 will be remembered as the day Broly became canon.
TheDevilsCorpse wrote:Which is often further exaggerated for the sake of a gag.
This is a problem with Super as a whole, the writers are so obsessed with gags that it's ruining the characters and going against their previous developments.
Take Chi Chi for example, in Z she let Goku train Gohan to fight Cell and trained Goten herself but in Super she was against Goku training with Whis to the point where she made a complete fool out of herself to prevent him for going.
The reason ? the writers thought it was funny so why not.
But in the end when Goku disobeyed her and went to go to train with Whis, she does not get mad about it at all. Hell, she even believes that Goku means well.
Spoiler:
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
TheDevilsCorpse wrote:Which is often further exaggerated for the sake of a gag.
This is a problem with Super as a whole, the writers are so obsessed with gags that it's ruining the characters and going against their previous developments.
Take Chi Chi for example, in Z she let Goku train Gohan to fight Cell and trained Goten herself but in Super she was against Goku training with Whis to the point where she made a complete fool out of herself to prevent him for going.
The reason ? the writers thought it was funny so why not.
But in the end when Goku disobeyed her and went to go to train with Whis, she does not get mad about it at all. Hell, she even believes that Goku means well.
I think that's exactly what he means. If she knew him like that all along why put up such a fight in the first place? Makes everything beforehand seem redundant.
fadeddreams5 wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.
jjgp1112 wrote: Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:31 am
I'm just about done with the concept of reboots and making shows that were products of their time and impactful "new and sexy" and in line with modern tastes and sensibilities. Let stuff stay in their era and give today's kids their own shit to watch.
I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.
Toei has increased his retardness to uncontrollable levels that rise higher than SSJ3.
Goku was stupid at times in Z but it still felt like Goku. The Goku in Super feels like Kid Goku lmao.
What do you consider in character? Goku has always been childlike. His fear of needles isn't flanderization (ugh, i hate that I used that term), it's a funny quirk.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.
SSJ4 Goku's demeanor in this one scene alone is the complete opposite of anything we've seen in Super from Goku: https://youtu.be/r7GrjdTwyJY?t=1m1s
"You've gone too far. Your evil is too great. BABY!! *gut punch*"
Super's Goku would be more like:
"Heh, heh, heh. *Luffy face smirk* Baby, I'm sure you can do better than that! I'm just getting warmed up!"
*Que Baby with a generic anime anger vein in response*
Last edited by fadeddreams5 on Sun Jul 03, 2016 1:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Dragon Ball once became a thing of the past to me, but after that, I got angry about the live action movie, re-wrote an entire movie script, and now I'm complaining about the quality of the new TV anime. It seems Dragon Ball has grown on me so much that I can't leave it alone." - Akira Toriyama on Dragon Ball Super
He's definitely not his "Z" self but Goku's suffering in Super what all mainstream anime characters are now a days. Goku's definitely a lot more childish and "un-aware".The only time we even see a hint of "Z" Goku is when he's fighting seriously. I'd like to chalk it up to the Potara thing since Vegeta act's strange too, but it should have been mentioned or hopefully it will be later.
Xeztin wrote:He's definitely not his "Z" self but Goku's suffering in Super what all mainstream anime characters are now a days. Goku's definitely a lot more childish and "un-aware".The only time we even see a hint of "Z" Goku is when he's fighting seriously. I'd like to chalk it up to the Potara thing since Vegeta act's strange too, but it should have been mentioned or hopefully it will be later.
And how do his Z self and early DB self differ?
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.
My point was more towards you calling Kid Gokuu stupid which was not correct.
Goku's lack of intelligence has always been a part of his character.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.
