Sources on Kuririn being the strongest human

[RedRibbonSoldier#42]

How come Gohan never counts as human in the "strongest human" debate?

He's half alien.

He manages to make the strongest saiyans lists, though.

[DBZAOTA482]

Source: http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/ ... ma-nozawa/

There's no "source" in the manga beyond Yamcha's quote, but I think it's funny how doggedly people fight this. Right there, in that above link, Toriyama flat-out says what's what, and people are just... "No, I don't like that." No real reasoning at all.

You can't definitively say Tenshinhan is stronger than Kuririn at any point that isn't the 22nd Budokai. We can definitively say Kuririn is stronger than Tenshinhan at some indeterminable point because the guy who made both of them said it.

Tien was far stronger than Krillin during the Piccolo Daimao Saga, 23rd Budokai, and Saiyan Saga. It's also possible he's stronger during the end of DBZ.

[Herms]

Even recently, there are those 'F' character bios that say Kuririn is the strongest earthling warrior.

With the BoG character bios too. Pretty much any time there are random character bios they pull out that "strongest Earthling" label for Kuririn.

[Vijay]

Frankly, I dont buy the theory/concept of Kuririn being the strongest human at all. Just because Toriyama likes the bald guy, it doesnt mean I should regard him the same way

Which doesnt mean a thing actually. Everyone's got their own preference.

For me, I consider Tien, followed by Yamucha, only then Kuririn comes.

Tien's 2 cool segments in Cell & Boo Arc respectively (using Shin KiKoHo to stop Semi Perfect Cell & deflect Bootenks blast at Dende) alone makes me feel Tien is "superior" fighter.

Especially when compared to walking plot device (Kuririn fails to deactivate the Android. Oh No! Kuririn flies towards Super Boo to distract him momentarily. Wow!) doesnt work for me

[B]

Tien was far stronger than Krillin during the Piccolo Daimao Saga, 23rd Budokai, and Saiyan Saga.

Tenshinhan and Kuririn don't have any type of median or measuring stick in those last two arcs. Ten loses to Goku and Kuririn to Piccolo; opponents they were never going to beat and neither of them lost spectacularly. The Saiyan arc and above? It hardly even matters as the new threats could wipe both of them out without breaking a sweat; they struggled exactly the same against the Saibaimen and Nappa, and in the case of Ten's arm, that just felt like bad luck. Neither is "clearly" stronger than the other.

The only thing people in the Ten camp can say is "Ten trains a lot, so he haaaaas to be stronger!", which doesn't end up meaning a whole lot when the author flat-out says the opposite.

[DBZAOTA482]

Tien was far stronger than Krillin during the Piccolo Daimao Saga, 23rd Budokai, and Saiyan Saga.

Tenshinhan and Kuririn don't have any type of median or measuring stick in those last two arcs. Ten loses to Goku and Kuririn to Piccolo; opponents they were never going to beat and neither of them lost spectacularly. The Saiyan arc and above? It hardly even matters as the new threats could wipe both of them out without breaking a sweat; they struggled exactly the same against the Saibaimen and Nappa, and in the case of Ten's arm, that just felt like bad luck. Neither is "clearly" stronger than the other.

The only thing people in the Ten camp can say is "Ten trains a lot, so he haaaaas to be stronger!", which doesn't end up meaning a whole lot when the author flat-out says the opposite.

Tien humiliated and one-shotted Cyborg Tao which made both Krillin and Yamcha believe he may have gotten too strong suggesting they can't do that themselves. He was also equal to Weighted Goku (who was said to be improved in all category from when he fought Daimao except speed) in strength and faster too while Krillin and Yamcha more than likely hadn't surpassed Young Piccolo Daimao.

Krillin also seemed rather scared when Tien's (literally) killer KiKo Ho did no lasting damage to Nappa.

[Bansho64]

Tenshinhan was probably ahead of Kuririn in the Saiyan arc but that all changed once Kuririn made a gigantic leap in power on Namek.

[Vijay]

Tien was probably ahead of Kuririn in the Saiyan arc but that all changed once Kuririn made a gigantic leap in power on Namek.

Not probably ahead. Sure fire ahead. Kuririn freaked at a "missed" blast from Nappa, while Tien not only got his forearm severed, assumed fighting stance, was hit to the ground and STILL attempted his Shin Kikoho stance. A true sign of warrior.

As opposed to a guy who is ragged by mere after-effects of Nappa's nearby chi shots

I also disagree on Kuririn's gigantic power leap on Namek as you said. He isnt Saiyan, who grows stronger continually with zenkai & transformations. All he could manage waz potential unlock by Guru/Saichoro Sama which made his speed/reflexes marginally superior. Was Kuririn himself admitted everything Guru did to him was useless when he was down frm SINGLE kick of Recoome.

Now if you compare that to Tienshinhan, he trained under Kaio Sama. Trained 3 years prior to Androids arrival. STILL wanted to train post 17 & 18's awakening, even after got badly beat down. Was not seen hanging-out with Zetto Senshi's in Boo Arc, which implies he still prefers being lone ranger who trains with Chaiatzu (seen briefly as Goku's SSJ3 transformation shocked whole world, escaping from Super Boo's Human Extinction Attack & later saving Dende from Bootenks)

Kuririn on other hand, grows his hair. Settles down with 18. Regular family man.

Even if we use FNF as any indication, Tien performed best next to Piccolo & Gohan, given how he took on vast number of Frieza's soldier with fluid display of martial arts.

How Kuririn is strongest human fighter especially compared to Tien is beyond me.

[RedRibbonSoldier#42]

It seems people will never stop trying to deny the Kuririn > Tenshinhan thing. With statements in guidebooks, the series and from the Bird himself, there really is no debate

[Kuririn Fan]

It seems people will never stop trying to deny the Kuririn > Tenshinhan thing. With statements in guidebooks, the series and from the Bird himself, there really is no debate

Yeah, but it doesn't match with their opinions of Kuririn, that of owned count and dying every 4 seconds. And hey, let's not forget badass "Tien" who stopped Cell with his "Neo Tri Beam".

[Duo]

I prefer the idea that Tenshinhan was the superior of the two, because he never took long breaks from training and seemed way more hardcore, but Akira articulated this at me via SMS tonight and I feel I ought post it just to spite him for being so good at writing and thoughtfulness.

On the Krillin thing, he's a very strategic fighter. So often used as comic relief in the movies or to display the powers of the big bads, yet he is clearly one of the best fighters in the whole series when you dig a bit deeper. Tenshinhan is a very powerful fighter, no doubt, but aside from his initial appearance where he had a bit of an age and size advantage on Goku and Krillin both, he is a bit single minded in his training. Make no mistake about it, throughout the end of DB, and up to about halfway through Z, the gaps between the two characters were indeed very small. In many cases, Tenshinhan was in the lead.

Look at Krillin's fights for the evidence. He went toe to toe with Goku at the 22nd tournament. Only Goku's superior endurance, and the fact that he's covered his tail weakness finally let him beat Krillin. (That and he used his Tournament best and not his battle best, by his own words). Krillin was hanging with Goku for the majority of the fight, one of the best tournament duels in the entire series.

Krillin managed to catch Piccolo Junior by surprise at the 23rd tournament, and put up a hell of a fight there. He had the smarts to give up when he knew he was beat and let Goku take over. Roshi even commented on what a great fighter he had become.

Krillin blew up multiple Saibamen with a single planned attack. He was also about to get a direct kill on Nappa had Vegeta not yelled at him to duck. The Kienzan would have no doubt sliced the big guy and killed him instantly. Krillin also kicked Nappa aside to keep him off Gohan. A focused power attack much like the one Piccolo would use later to get Freeza off Goku as he prepared the Super Genki-Dama.

The point is, Krillin knew when the hold em and when to fold em. Even against Recoome, he slammed his mouth shut on the eraser gun so Gohan could get Vegeta out of the way. He realized keeping Vegeta alive was his best course of action.

Tenshinhan never knew when to back down once he initiated combat. His techniques were almost all heavy deathblow or potentially fatal moves that weakened him after their use. Strategy and technique wise, Krillin was superior on that front alone. Kienzan, Split Kamehameha, everything he devised in his own was a well planned and devastating attack of his own creation. In that sense, he was superior to even Goku and took the Turtle hermit training to levels even Goku never did. Goku was a brilliant fighter, but every technique in his arsenal was borrowed from his masters. His only sole creation was Dragonfist.

And ultimately, he married android 18. Forget Grand elder's potential unlock, forget Tenshinhan extended training with North Kaio. Near the end of the series, his wife sparred with him to keep his skill up, and Tenshinhan, well he still had Chaozu to fight with, right? Krillin got better gains from that than Ten got in the years leading up to the final arc.

So, there you go. Better strategist, better creative genius. Knew when to fight and when not to, and had a better sparring partner for better gains later on. That's the evidence and why Toriyama states that he is strongest. Oh yeah, and he did cut off Freeza's tail in second form with a multi-Kienzan attack. Dude is brilliant.

Krillin lived with the master too. The same master who offered to bring Tenshinhan into the fold, but was turned down and chose to go it alone. Roshi may not have had Krillin delivering milk and swimming from sharks anymore, but he no doubt gave advice much in the same way Goku still sought training methods and advice from North Kaio long after he'd far surpassed him. The wisdom and suggestions were likely beneficial.

Awesome.

[ABED]

You don't really agree that he might or that he might not? That without him actually doing it there is no way to confirm it? OK.

It's an arbitrary statement. It's like arguing if aliens exist. "You don't know they exist". "Well, you don't known they DON'T."

Er... Which is why I won't just assume aliens exist, since I don't really know. That's my point.

Just like there is no real way to know how things stand at the end of the Buu saga, going by the manga. I could assume, but it would just be an assumption.

Don't know what is there for you to disagree with regarding this, exactly.

You are missing my point. I do in fact assume aliens exist (or have good reason to at least think they do), but I just don't argue the point that strongly because despite what reasons I have, it's an arbitrary argument because of the lack of evidence in either direction. I wasn't disagreeing with you, merely pointing out that you are using the whole "you can't prove that it's NOT" line of argument.

[rereboy]

You are missing my point. I do in fact assume aliens exist (or have good reason to at least think they do), but I just don't argue the point that strongly because despite what reasons I have, it's an arbitrary argument because of the lack of evidence in either direction. I wasn't disagreeing with you, merely pointing out that you are using the whole "you can't prove that it's NOT" line of argument.

You literally stated "I don't really agree".

It seems people will never stop trying to deny the Kuririn > Tenshinhan thing. With statements in guidebooks, the series and from the Bird himself, there really is no debate

People don't deny that Yamcha's stated it and that Toriyama stated it. They just don't think it makes much sense.

[Majin Jator]

People don't deny that Yamcha's stated it and that Toriyama stated it. They just don't think it makes much sense.

Exactly. In other series, "the author said so" would settle the matter, but we are talking about Toriyama here. In an interview ten years since the end of the series. I'm not even sure that he remembered Tien in that moment. . He's like, "yeah, whatever, krilin is the strongest".

I don't care as much about what is told and prefer to focus in what is shown in the series: IMO, Tien is depicted as the strongest of the human fighters. And I like Krilin way more as a character than dull Tien.

[Khin]

Technically.Goku/Vegeta are the strongest humans in the series.Unless you mean as in pure earthling.The term human has been used many times in the series for alien people like GInyu,Goku etc.

I remember seeing a quote from Akira Toriyama not too long ago in a thread.Though i can't remember which one.But there's a line in Boo Arc where Yamcha told Kuririn's daugther that Kuririn is the strongest earthling.

Chapter: 439 (DBZ 245), P3.2-3
Context: as Kuririn goes up against Punter
Marron: “That person dad’s fighting is big and looks strong…I wonder if he’ll be alright?...”
Yamcha: “It’s fine, fine! Someone like that doesn’t matter at all! Your father is the strongest in the world! Among Earthlings…”

I don't care as much about what is told and prefer to focus in what is shown in the series: IMO, Tien is depicted as the strongest of the human fighters. And I like Krilin way more as a character than dull Tien.

Except for Saiyan Arc.Nowhere in Dragon Ball Z Tenshinhan was shown/stated to be stronger than Kuririn.His Kikoho against Semi Cell does nothing but push him back.

Tenshinhan is my favorite character in the entire series.But just because he's more "badass" or trains a lot more,it doesn't mean he's stronger than Kuririn.

[Kuririn Fan]

People don't deny that Yamcha's stated it and that Toriyama stated it. They just don't think it makes much sense.

Exactly. In other series, "the author said so" would settle the matter, but we are talking about Toriyama here. In an interview ten years since the end of the series. I'm not even sure that he remembered Tien in that moment. . He's like, "yeah, whatever, krilin is the strongest".

I don't care as much about what is told and prefer to focus in what is shown in the series: IMO, Tien is depicted as the strongest of the human fighters. And I like Krilin way more as a character than dull Tien.

Expect that he confirmed that Kuririn is the strongest every time he had the chance to do that.

[ABED]

You literally stated "I don't really agree".

Yes, but that wasn't my main point. I was disagreeing with the use of the arbitrary "he didn't say he isn't", plus there's evidence from interviews that he does in fact still believe Kuririn is the stronger of the two. But since it's not in-universe, one could arbitrarily hold that Tenshinhan is the stronger of the two.

Except for Saiyan Arc. Nowhere in Dragon Ball Z Tenshinhan was shown/stated to be stronger than Kuririn. His Kikoho against Semi Cell does nothing but push him back.

To which I would argue that there's no real way to gauge that statement due to them never fighting. From that point on they encounter beings that are far stronger and could one shot either of them. Sure, Tenshinhan just pushed back Cell, but he pushed back CELL. That's impressive considering their gaps in power.

Tenshinhan is my favorite character in the entire series. But just because he's more "badass" or trains a lot more,it doesn't mean he's stronger than Kuririn.

Other than The Grand Elder's power up, what suggests that Kuririn would stay stronger? It's heavily implied that Tenshinhan has a great natural aptitude for fighting, I would argue much moreso than anyone who isn't a god or an alien.

[rereboy]

You literally stated "I don't really agree".

Yes, but that wasn't my main point. I was disagreeing with the use of the arbitrary "he didn't say he isn't", plus there's evidence from interviews that he does in fact still believe Kuririn is the stronger of the two. But since it's not in-universe, one could arbitrarily hold that Tenshinhan is the stronger of the two.

There is nothing arbitrary about saying that Krillin or Tenshinhan being stronger at the end of the manga is an assumption, going by the manga.

[ABED]

You literally stated "I don't really agree".

Yes, but that wasn't my main point. I was disagreeing with the use of the arbitrary "he didn't say he isn't", plus there's evidence from interviews that he does in fact still believe Kuririn is the stronger of the two. But since it's not in-universe, one could arbitrarily hold that Tenshinhan is the stronger of the two.

There is nothing arbitrary about saying that Tenshinhan being stronger at the end of the manga is an assumption, going by the manga.

It is because there's no explicit evidence one way or the other. The closest thing is something Yamcha said and though volumes earlier.

[rereboy]

It is because there's no explicit evidence one way or the other. The closest thing is something Yamcha said and though volumes earlier.

It would be arbitrary if I was assuming something without good eason. That would be arbitrary. Stating merely that it's an assumption either way, whether we think it's Krillin or Tenshinhan the stronger one, that's just describing how it is.