Dragon Ball Timelines graphic

[Cipher]

though in another thread last night I concluded that his last time looking in the box could have been "after" (in the "meta in-universe chronological" sense) Trunks and Cell had created the (going by my naming scheme) Movie 7 Timeline and the Cell Games and Black Timeline, respectively, and he must have put it away "before" (again, in the same "meta in-universe chronological" sense) Trunks created Trunks' Timeline.

My reasoning for ruling that out is that, technically, Future Trunks' timeline should branch off after he first returns from giving Goku the heart medicine in a timeline altered by Cell. Whatever changes he's encountered at that point would just be the minute butterfly-effect differences due to Cell's presence, but in the strictest sense, that should count.

Then again, they threw that out the window by attributing this latest splinter to Beerus rather than Trunks, so I guess only the "big" changes count. It doesn't make any sense -- wouldn't people having even the most minutely different memories of events require two parallel timelines? -- but oh well.

Why wouldn't the Goku Black Timeline branch off of the Future Trunks Timeline?

To add to Zephyr's explanation, you just need to break down the causality for each split. Both those timelines splinter from Cell's. Starting from Cell's timeline, you have:

1) The "unseen" timeline (or Zephyr's Movie 7), altered only by Trunks.
2) Black's timeline, altered by Cell (but also set to have Trunks arrive in it as part of its events).
3) Trunks' "good" future, which is also the result of his past being altered by Cell; Trunks has different experiences in the past than he would without Cell's presence, and is able to prevent his own death as a result.
4) The main timeline, altered by Cell, Trunks, and Trunks again after encountering Black, splitting off from Black's due to Black's origins being prevented.

But yeah; Cell indirectly causes both Black's timeline and Trunks' "good one" (or not-so-good, as of this arc). Just as Trunks delivering the heart medicine leads to two outcomes for Goku--one in which he dies, and one in which he survives--so too does Cell interfering with Trunks' personal past lead to two scenarios for Trunks. The fact that that interference happens during a time when both of them have traveled to the literal past is immaterial.

Basically, the Trunks Cell kills has a past that involves spending time in Age 767. If Cell goes back to Age 767 at that point and enacts further changes, he's altering Trunks' personal history as well.

Trunks' timeline doesn't diverge from Cell's until after he returns from his experiences in the new version of the past. The "Future Trunks" timeline is, in fact, the "last" to be created during the events of the manga. It's the last splinter.

[Zephyr]

My reasoning for ruling that out is that, technically, Future Trunks' timeline should branch off after he first returns from giving Goku the heart medicine in a timeline altered by Cell. Whatever changes he's encountered at that point would just be the minute butterfly-effect differences due to Cell's presence, but in the strictest sense, that should count.

Then again, they threw that out the window by attributing this latest splinter to Beerus rather than Trunks, so I guess only the "big" changes count. It doesn't make any sense -- wouldn't people having even the most minutely different memories of events require two parallel timelines? -- but oh well.

Yeah, I get what you're saying. That would require a lot more lines, and like you said, the series somewhat throws this idea out the window.

Trunks not getting stronger would result in Cell killing him and stealing his time machine again, and that's what's "important". Beerus not killing Zamasu would result in him becoming Goku Black and going to Trunks' Timeline, and that's what's "important".

Knowledge of other shit, the butterfly effect, etc. are other factors that should matter in the real world, were this kind of time travel to be possible; but that's a little too heavy into sophisticated metaphysics for Toriyama and Toei to be expected to dabble in, let alone grasp. I'm thankful that it all actually makes as much sense as it does.

[Cipher]

Knowledge of other shit, the butterfly effect, etc. are other factors that should matter in the real world, were this kind of time travel to be possible; but that's a little too heavy into sophisticated metaphysics for Toriyama and Toei to be expected to dabble in, let alone grasp. I'm thankful that it all actually makes as much sense as it does.

Yep, begrudgingly agreed. If no new Time Ring showed up this arc until Beerus killed Zamasu, for consistency no new Time Ring should show up for Trunks' timeline until he kills Future Cell.

It's dumb, but whatever. If one, then both.

[ChiefWamsutta]

Knowledge of other shit, the butterfly effect, etc. are other factors that should matter in the real world, were this kind of time travel to be possible; but that's a little too heavy into sophisticated metaphysics for Toriyama and Toei to be expected to dabble in, let alone grasp. I'm thankful that it all actually makes as much sense as it does.

Yep, begrudgingly agreed. If no new Time Ring showed up this arc until Beerus killed Zamasu, for consistency no new Time Ring should show up for Trunks' timeline until he kills Future Cell.

It's dumb, but whatever. If one, then both.

I took it as a violation of the laws of the Gods that Beerus killed Zamasu, hence the timeline was created. If Gods if Destruction aren't supposed to travel through time without time rings that the Kaioshins use, it should not be allowed that they can killed Gods like Zamasu.

[ShadowBardock89]

I know Xenoverse has the movie characters are from alternate timelines, but what what about the video games themselves are/have alternate timelines? There have been alterations from the main story throughout the years. I mean how else do you explain Raditz vs. Bojack from Raging Blast 2? Then there is Towa & Mira's story. We have three different accounts of it: Dragon Ball Online, Xenoverse & Xenoverse 2, and Dragon Ball Heroes. Each having having their own deviations from each other when addressing the threat of the Time Breakers.

[DragonBallLove]

As much as I'd like to get a "Theory of Everything" concerning timelines and diverse canon of the franchise, lets not get wishful and keep the things separate. GT, Xeno and movies shouldnt account in the manganime timelines.

[ChiefWamsutta]

As much as I'd like to get a "Theory of Everything" concerning timelines and diverse canon of the franchise, lets not get wishful and keep the things separate. GT, Xeno and movies shouldnt account in the manganime timelines.

I agree. Different forms of media would not fit into a timeline graphic anyways. We have to treat it as such:

Manga/Anime Canon -- DB, DBZ/DBKai, DBSuper

GT Canon -- DB, DBZ, DBGT

Movie Canon -- Movie ordering

Video Game #1 -- Xenoverse, Xenoverse 2
Video Game #2 -- Dragon Ball Heroes
Video Game #3 -- Dragon Ball Online

[DragonBallLove]

I'd even dispute all movies beign in the same canon, mind you.

[TobyS]

I'd even dispute all movies beign in the same canon, mind you.

Yeah one problem is even the ones that *could* follow from each other.... we don't know that they *did*

So we have like between 1-14 (with PtEtS) movie timelines but we don't know exactly which amount.

[DragonBallLove]

I'd even dispute all movies beign in the same canon, mind you.

Yeah one problem is even the ones that *could* follow from each other.... we don't know that they *did*

So we have like between 1-14 (with PtEtS) movie timelines but we don't know exactly which amount.

Well, at least the Broly movies each implies the last one, and the same could be said of Cooler 2. Also, in Fusion Reborn there are a lot of past enemies. And remember the Raichi OVA, with its Phantom Warriors...

[ShadowBardock89]

I'd even dispute all movies beign in the same canon, mind you.

They are not.

Plan to Eradicate the Super Saiyans takes place in a timeline where Movies 3-5 take place as well as Movie 8, but not Movie 6. So there is a divergence right there.

[Desassina]

Just leaving it here.

https://s26.postimg.org/echmfjfrt/timelines.png

[spoiler][/spoiler]

[ShadowBardock89]

Might want to add Zamasu's escapades a little later on that as well.