Dragon Ball Timelines graphic

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Dragon Ball Timelines graphic

Post by ChiefWamsutta » Tue Nov 22, 2016 1:40 am

Image

What do you all think of this? Any suggestions for making it better? Does it make sense?

EDITED: I switched the Main Timeline and Goku Black Timeline. As seen from Outer Space by Goku, Beerus, and Whis, without any interference Zamasu would kill Gowasu and become Goku Black. After the interference by Beerus killing Zamasu, the Main Timeline continues this way.
Last edited by ChiefWamsutta on Tue Nov 22, 2016 7:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Dragon Ball Timelines graphic

Post by Zephyr » Tue Nov 22, 2016 1:19 pm

Here's what I'm currently going with:
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Re: Dragon Ball Timelines graphic

Post by DBZ Macky » Tue Nov 22, 2016 1:30 pm

I'd be grateful if someone could actually explain the graphic. Like when and how do the splits in the timelines occur?
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Re: Dragon Ball Timelines graphic

Post by Zephyr » Tue Nov 22, 2016 3:07 pm

Alrighty, I can make an attempt at that. Here's an updated version of that chart I made, with numbers indicating what timelines were created first:
Image

In "Meta In-Universe Chronological" Order (ie: in order of which timelines were created first):

[1] UNIVERSE 12 TIME TRAVELER'S ORIGINAL TIMELINE:
In Chapter 17 of the Super manga, Gowasu explains that the first instance of time travel was from someone in Universe 12. That is the first split, which creates Cell's Timeline, at some unknown point in the past. I'm assuming well before any important events to the series would occur.

[2] CELL'S TIMELINE:
In Cell's Timeline, the series happens, and eventually Trunks' "bad future" happens: Goku dies of a heart virus, and most of the other fighters are killed by Gero's Androids. Bulma builds a time machine, and Trunks travels to the past, creating the Movie 7 Timeline.

[3] MOVIE 7 TIMELINE:
In the Movie 7 Timeline, Trunks arrives and makes short work of Mecha Freeza and King Cold. He then returns to Cell's Timeline briefly, and then returns here. They find the blueprints for a controller to shut down 17 and 18. I also like to imagine that Movie 7 occurs afterwards in this timeline, hence the name. It also helps it stand out more than "nameless/unknown timeline" does. Trunks then returns for the final time to Cell's Timeline.

[4] CELL GAMES TIMELINE:
In Cell's Timeline, Trunks uses the controller to shut down 17 and 18. Cell, finally having completed his development, begins searching for them. Unable to locate them and learning of their demise, he kills Trunks and uses his time machine to travel to the past, to a point farther back than Trunks had, creating a new timeline: the one where he achieves Perfection and holds the Cell Games.

[5] TRUNKS' TIMELINE:
As a result, Trunks grows much more powerful, and after the Cell Games returns home to Cell's Timeline. This time, he defeats 17 and 18 with his own power, and later Cell when he shows up. This all causes a new timeline: Trunks' Timeline.

[6] CURRENT MAIN TIMELINE:
Back in the Cell Games Timeline, several things occur: the Buu arc, Battle of Gods, Revival of F, and the Universe 6 tournament. Zamasu learns of Goku's great power, and wishes to use it to punish the mortals of the multiverse. He uses the Super Dragon Balls to switch bodies with Goku and kill him, becoming Goku Black. He proceeds to seek out a less troublesome timeline in which he can enact his plan.

In Trunks' Timeline, after he defeats Cell, Babidi comes to Earth attempting to revive Buu. With the combined efforts of Trunks and Kaioshin, this is averted, though at the expense of Kaioshin's (and thus Beerus') life. Seeing this, Goku Black selects this timeline to enact his plan to punish the mortals of the multiverse. He enlists this timeline's Zamasu, and helps him achieve immortality. They kill a very large, but ultimately unspecific, number of gods and mortals alike within this timeline's multiverse, before setting their sights on Earth. Trunks travels once again back to the Cell Games Timeline.

There, it is eventually made known that Zamasu is behind all of this. As such, Beerus kills him. This creates the Current Main timeline.

[7] 2 TRUNKS TIMELINE:
Goku, Vegeta, and Trunks then return to Trunks' Timeline to battle Goku Black. He fuses with that timeline's Zamasu, and ultimately begins to threaten the entire universe (or possibly the multiverse, it's not terribly specific). Goku summons Zeno, who then wipes out that universe (or the multiverse, again not specific). Goku and co. flee to the Current Main Timeline. Whis then suggests that Trunks go to his timeline, but at a point prior to Kaioshin dying, so as to prevent Goku Black and Zamasu from enacting their plan, at the bizarre expense of their being two of him. This creates the 2 Trunks Timeline.

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Re: Dragon Ball Timelines graphic

Post by szopman » Tue Nov 22, 2016 3:32 pm

Zephyr wrote:[3] MOVIE 7 TIMELINE:
(...)They find the blueprints for a controller to shut down 17 and 18. (...).
Who's saying that he used the controller to shut down them? I always assumed that he just destroyed them, because of how powerful he became. I guess it was never explained in the show how the Androids disappeared in this timeline. Cell just said that there weren't around when he was completed.

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Re: Dragon Ball Timelines graphic

Post by ChiefWamsutta » Tue Nov 22, 2016 3:50 pm

DBZ Macky wrote:I'd be grateful if someone could actually explain the graphic. Like when and how do the splits in the timelines occur?
I can explain mine to you, sure. If you're interested in these things I created another graphic that I'd be willing to share with you. :)

So after DBS Ep 67, we see six time rings, right before Future Trunks and Future Mai go off to the one Whis created (he states he's going to do so during the end of this epsiode). Okay, so we have seven timelines now.

We know of the original four timelines from DBZ (Main, Future Trunks, Cell, and Unseen). It's stated in the DBS Manga that a traveler from Universe 12 was the first one to create a new timeline. In episode 67, Beerus killing Main Timeline Zamasu split the timeline creating the Goku Black timeline, and Whis creates a new timeline by going back in time to Future Trunks' Timeline before Zamasu kills the Supreme Kai of Universe 7, and he will seal Zamasu away. This timeline is said to have two Future Trunks and two Future Mais. This is a total of seven timelines! Awesome, we did it, haha.

Based on the DBS Manga it is unclear if the Universe 12 Traveler Timeline or the Cell Timeline came first. I treated this very differently from Zephyr and saw it as the traveler left the timeline to create his own timeline. That's why it branches off of the Cell Timeline far to the left. Each timeline will continue on to the right side of the graphic, as nothing stops them from continuing on. Later, Future Trunks goes to the Unseen Timeline and does all the stuff OUR Future Trunks did (The Cell Timeline is just like the Futrue Trunks Timeline and the Unseen Timeline is just like the Main Timeline). He succeeds and later on Cell kills him and goes back in time creating the Future Trunks Timeline. Future Trunks goes in the time machine for the first time and creates the Main Timeline. The reason the Future Trunks Timeline is far beneath the Cell Timeline is because Cell went far back in time from the future, hence the diagonal line to the bottom left. When Beerus kills Zamasu, the Goku Black Timeline branches off of the Main Timeline. Whis traveling back to Future Trunks' Timeline and telling Future Beerus to seal Zamasu away splits the Future Timeline into one where there are two Trunks and two Mai, and one where nothing exists.

I'm not sure I can speak for Zephyr's graphic. I do disagree with a number of things on it though.

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Re: Dragon Ball Timelines graphic

Post by Sandubadear » Tue Nov 22, 2016 3:50 pm

Did this one. It's similar to Zephyr's, but I added the original timeline instead.
Image

First is the original unaltered timeline.

Second is the timeline altered by the U12 time traveler.

Third is the timeline where Trunks kills the Androids but is killed by Cell.

Fourth is the timeline where Trunks kills the Androids and Cell, Black attacks this timeline, and all existence was destroyed by Zen'ou.

Fifth is the "original main" timeline, Cell and Trunks travel to this timeline, Super happens, Zamasu changes bodies with Goku and travels to Fourth Timeline.

These are the original 5 time rings, next two are the new timelines created in Super.

Beerus kills Zamasu changing history, "current main" timeline of Super.

And the new Trunks timeline, where Mai and Trunks went to.
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Re: Dragon Ball Timelines graphic

Post by ChiefWamsutta » Tue Nov 22, 2016 4:13 pm

Sandubadear wrote:[spoiler]Did this one. It's similar to Zephyr's, but I added the original timeline instead.
Image[/spoiler]
See, I had thought of an idea like that, but it doesn't make sense to me.

We know of the seven timelines: 1) Main, 2) Future Trunks, 3) Cell, 4) Unseen, 5) Universe 12 Traveler, 6) Goku Black, 7) Two Trunks.

We know Main Timeline has to branch off of the Future Timeline. We know that the Double Trunks Timeline has to branch off of the Future Timeline. The Future Timeline has to branch off of the Cell Timeline. One of those timelines has to branch off from the Cell Timeline into the Unseen Timeline.

In DBS Ep 67, Whis states that by Beerus killing Zamasu it created a new timeline where Zamasu never died. This wording means that another timeline split off from the Main, not the Main split off from the Goku Black Timeline.

I have no idea if the Universe 12 Traveler Timeline is the original, or if the Cell Timeline is the original though.

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Re: Dragon Ball Timelines graphic

Post by Sandubadear » Tue Nov 22, 2016 4:20 pm

ChiefWamsutta wrote:In DBS Ep 67, Whis states that by Beerus killing Zamasu it created a new timeline where Zamasu never died. This wording means that another timeline split off from the Main, not the Main split off from the Goku Black Timeline.
Whis said that, but since Black appeared "before" Beerus killed Zamasu, it's the other way around. Black timeline is the original course of events, but the timeline split after Beerus killed him.
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Re: Dragon Ball Timelines graphic

Post by ChiefWamsutta » Tue Nov 22, 2016 4:25 pm

Sandubadear wrote: Whis said that, but since Black appeared "before" Beerus killed Zamasu, it's the other way around. Black timeline is the original course of events, but the timeline split after Beerus killed him.
I guess that makes sense. Yeah, because as they watched from outer space Zamasu did kill Gowasu in the Main Timeline, meaning that the Goku Black Timeline events were to happen in the Main Timeline until Beerus stopped him. I can't think of anywhere else where I have gone wrong. :?

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Re: Dragon Ball Timelines graphic

Post by TobyS » Tue Nov 22, 2016 4:29 pm

Doesn't blacks timeline get overwritten. Most peoples charts show as of it's still there.
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Re: Dragon Ball Timelines graphic

Post by ChiefWamsutta » Tue Nov 22, 2016 4:38 pm

TobyS wrote:Doesn't blacks timeline get overwritten. Most peoples charts show as of it's still there.
I think it's based on the fact that Whis states a new timeline was created where Zamasu didn't die. Whis is hinting here that he becomes Goku Black, as that's the logical conclusion if he killed Gowasu.

Also, we see six time rings at the end of Ep 67, and Whis makes one more timeline with Double Trunks. I'm honestly not sure if some things got overwritten or not. If we find out that one of the timelines is not 1) Main, 2) Future, 3) Cell, 4) Unseen, 5) Universe 12 Traveler, 6) Goku Black, 7) Double Trunks, we'll have to alter our models. It's easier to think of it this way, for me.

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Re: Dragon Ball Timelines graphic

Post by TobyS » Tue Nov 22, 2016 4:50 pm

ChiefWamsutta wrote:
TobyS wrote:Doesn't blacks timeline get overwritten. Most peoples charts show as of it's still there.
I think it's based on the fact that Whis states a new timeline was created where Zamasu didn't die. Whis is hinting here that he becomes Goku Black, as that's the logical conclusion if he killed Gowasu.

Also, we see six time rings at the end of Ep 67, and Whis makes one more timeline with Double Trunks. I'm honestly not sure if some things got overwritten or not. If we find out that one of the timelines is not 1) Main, 2) Future, 3) Cell, 4) Unseen, 5) Universe 12 Traveler, 6) Goku Black, 7) Double Trunks, we'll have to alter our models. It's easier to think of it this way, for me.
Hmm weird what about all that stuff about Black not being erased because of his ring and Whis time travel not splitting TL's like Trunks machine... I liked that Black was an anomaly left over from a now defunct timeline.

And I was sure Trunks TL was gone.... But I guess you are right about the ring count. I guess one ring takes you to the void where Trunks multi-verse was.

I wish there was just
1. Cell
2. Unseen
3. Main
4. U12 guy.
5. Trunks gets xenoverse treatment and we get GT and...
6. The *spoiler* new TL from the end of xenoverse.

You could consolidate further by saying that U12 caused GT and they are the same thing.
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Re: Dragon Ball Timelines graphic

Post by ChiefWamsutta » Tue Nov 22, 2016 5:32 pm

It'd be neat to be able to add in the video games and DBGT, yeah. I think they are a different continuity though, so they exist in a place outside even these seven timelines.

They didn't really say how Whis would travel back in time, but I'm sure he can talk to someone who knows how to. OR he has something that we haven't seen just yet.

Yeah, I don't think the Future timeline was gone since the Spacetime of the multiverse was dark first, and after the Omni-King it was a different higher dimensional matter where the Omni-King floated.

It took me awhile to figure out how Goku Black worked but it goes like this: Future Trunks is chilling, Goku Black arrives and kills Future Gowasu to Future Zamasu's surprise. They then hug and use the Super Dragon Balls to make Future Zamasu immortal. They go around killing all of the Kaioshin (and by consequence the Gods of Destruction and negating the Angels) of the Future Timeline. They then destroyed the Super Dragon Balls and conduct the Zero Mortals Plan. Future Zamasu probably goes off to kill mortals in another area of the multiverse while Goku Black terrorizes the earth. Trunks tries to stop him, but flees to the Main Timeline. Goku Black follows and fights SS2 Son Goku. He gets pulled back into the Future Timeline by the time ring since he does not exist yet and it is a violation of time. Goku Black gets a Zenkai boost and powers-up. He learns SSR (SSB but Zamasu's ki makes it Rose). Goku, Whis, and Beerus watch Zamasu kill Gowasu (which would then create Goku Black in this timeline). Beerus interferes and kills Zamasu, thus splitting the Goku Black Timeline and Main Timeline.

The Goku Black Timeline goes on to have him be created, kill Goten and Chi Chi, and leave the timeline for the Future Timeline. He doesn't reappear though because Goku Black existed outside of time before he was created. He just disappears from the Goku Black Timeline.

In the Main Timeline, Goku and Vegeta come to the Future. All the battles happen that we see in the episodes. Supreme God Zamasu dies. Future Zamasu's immortal spirit takes over the universe, and Future Omni-King has to wipe the timeline clean. Whis goes back in time, changing the past by letting Future Beerus know who then will seal the new timeline Zamasu with something (I think the oven mitt). Future Trunks and Future Mai then go to the Double Trunks Timeline to live.

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Re: Dragon Ball Timelines graphic

Post by Zephyr » Tue Nov 22, 2016 9:41 pm

szopman wrote:
Zephyr wrote:[3] MOVIE 7 TIMELINE:
(...)They find the blueprints for a controller to shut down 17 and 18. (...).
Who's saying that he used the controller to shut down them? I always assumed that he just destroyed them, because of how powerful he became. I guess it was never explained in the show how the Androids disappeared in this timeline. Cell just said that there weren't around when he was completed.
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Re: Dragon Ball Timelines graphic

Post by Cipher » Tue Nov 22, 2016 11:20 pm

Zephyr's graphic and notes are rock-solid outside of the fanon inclusion of Movie 7 as the events of the "unseen" timeline (it certainly could be, but nothing confirms that).

Also the fact that there may be more timelines unrelated to the main cast than just the Universe 12 time-traveler's original timeline. The time rings don't actually correspond to all the Trunks/Cell timelines in the way that would seem most obvious (Gowasu says one new one appeared a few years back rather than three); call it a plothole or oversimplification, but the possibility exists that there are a few more branches before Trunks and Cell do their thing. The ones we really care about are the six we're left with as a result of events covered within in the series.

That's a really clean graphic though. I like it.
TobyS wrote:Doesn't blacks timeline get overwritten. Most peoples charts show as of it's still there.
Ready for some shit?

Most people, myself included, argued for it being overwritten (due to Zamasu using a time ring to jump into whatever kind of speculative future the Kaioshin access) because no new time ring was created with Trunks' arrival. Gowasu doesn't open the box of time rings and note that a new one has appeared since he last checked. Events would start deviating from the way they originally occurred in Black's background at that point, so most figured they must have been overwritten rather than splintered off from in the traditional Dragon Ball mode.

However, episode 67 has Whis comment that Beerus created a new time ring (splinter timeline) when he killed Zamasu. That's ... an oversimplification for sure, because really events started deviating with Trunks' arrival, but whatever; they apparently took the approach that as the action that presented the biggest difference between timelines, Beerus killing Zamasu was what caused the split. A bit of a stretch in logic, but oh well. I suppose that's easier for kids. I don't have an in-universe way to explain that.

The bigger deal is that Whis confirms the events of Black's origin are part of their own timeline; they weren't overwritten. The main timeline just splintered off from them thanks to Trunks' return getting Beerus involved.

EDIT -- I'm not down with any graphics showing the timeline altered by the Universe 12 time-traveler as unrelated splinters. Let's say he's the onlu person in the history of the multiverse to ever time-travel before Trunks (which I think is unlikely, but whatever). My guess is that Cell's timeline is technically the timeline he altered. That's what I like about Zephyr's graphic so much; it implies Cell's is the last-altered version from whatever time travel took place beforehand.

While it's possible U12 guy could have gone into the past and returned, Cell's timeline and all other events taking place in the original version rather than whatever past he altered, the series is quite consistent with making what we see the last-altered version of events. The main timeline of the series isn't just a random one -- it's the one with the most changes. Hence, for POV consistency, I'm assuming Cell's timeline is layered on top of any previous changes, and more substantially altered timelines continue to rack up from there.
Last edited by Cipher on Tue Nov 22, 2016 11:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Dragon Ball Timelines graphic

Post by ChiefWamsutta » Tue Nov 22, 2016 11:38 pm

Cipher wrote:Zephyr's graphic and notes are rock-solid
Wait, how is his graphic rock-solid? I don't understand. The Cell Timeline branches off to the Future Timeline, which he doesn't have. Could you explain why my original post doesn't fit well, in your opinion?

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Re: Dragon Ball Timelines graphic

Post by Cipher » Tue Nov 22, 2016 11:44 pm

ChiefWamsutta wrote:
Cipher wrote:Zephyr's graphic and notes are rock-solid
Wait, how is his graphic rock-solid? I don't understand. The Cell Timeline branches off to the Future Timeline, which he doesn't have. Could you explain why my original post doesn't fit well, in your opinion?
I think it's the best visual representation of what timeline each new one splinters from, and how many years are "between" their splinter points without getting too complicated (that's for footnotes).

I'm not super down with where you placed the Universe 12 timeline, or the implication that it's a different alteration rather than the original, but I covered that in an edit above. Otherwise I just find the presentation on Zephyr's a little more clean. That isn't a knock against anyone else; it's better than I would've done.

Also, he does have the Future Trunks timeline. It's much further down as a splinter from the Cell one, because there's a seventeen-year calendar difference between the events that separate it from Cell's timeline and the events that separate Black's timeline from Cell's timeline, even though they both splinter from it.

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Re: Dragon Ball Timelines graphic

Post by ChiefWamsutta » Tue Nov 22, 2016 11:54 pm

Cipher wrote: I think it's the best visual representation of what timeline each new one splinters from, and how many years are "between" their splinter points without getting too complicated (that's for footnotes).
I agree with you there, definitely. It really is a good visual.
Cipher wrote: I'm not super down with where you placed the Universe 12 timeline, or the implication that it's a different alteration rather than the original.
Yeah, I wasn't too sure about the placement myself. I made it really late at night, so it isn't my best work. Thanks for being straight-up.
Cipher wrote: Also, he does have the Future Trunks timeline. It's much further down as a splinter from the Cell one, because there's a seventeen-year calendar difference between the events that separate it from Cell's timeline and the events that separate Black's timeline from Cell's timeline, even though they both splinter from it.
Whoops, I made the mistake of what I meant to say, haha. Why wouldn't the Goku Black Timeline branch off of the Future Trunks Timeline?

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Re: Dragon Ball Timelines graphic

Post by Zephyr » Wed Nov 23, 2016 1:30 am

Thanks for the complements, guys! :P
Cipher wrote:Also the fact that there may be more timelines unrelated to the main cast than just the Universe 12 time-traveler's original timeline. The time rings don't actually correspond to all the Trunks/Cell timelines in the way that would seem most obvious (Gowasu says one new one appeared a few years back rather than three); call it a plothole or oversimplification, but the possibility exists that there are a few more branches before Trunks and Cell do their thing. The ones we really care about are the six we're left with as a result of events covered within in the series.
The reason I didn't illustrate that possibility is the ultimate number of time rings. If there were more timelines, there'd have to be more rings, right? Gowasu's comment definitely throws a wrench in my theories, though in another thread last night I concluded that his last time looking in the box could have been "after" (in the "meta in-universe chronological" sense) Trunks and Cell had created the (going by my naming scheme) Movie 7 Timeline and the Cell Games and Black Timeline, respectively, and he must have put it away "before" (again, in the same "meta in-universe chronological" sense) Trunks created Trunks' Timeline.
ChiefWamsutta wrote:Why wouldn't the Goku Black Timeline branch off of the Future Trunks Timeline?
I guess it depends on what names you're using for which timelines. :P

Short answer:
Both the Cell Games and Black Timeline and Trunks' Timeline branch off from different parts of Cell's Timeline.

Long answer:
The timeline that Goku Black originates from is the one where the Cell Games, the Buu arc, Battle of Gods, Revival of F, and the Universe 6 tournament all were depicted as having taken place in. That was a timeline created by the Cell who held said Cell Games (which I'm calling the Cell Games and Black Timeline), when he traveled back from his timeline of origin (which I'm calling Cell's Timeline). That timeline is a "Future Trunks" timeline, in that it's a shitty future where Goku died of a heart virus and almost everyone else died fighting the Androids. But the one that we see Trunks return to after the Cell Games with enough power to defeat all of Gero's creations (which I'm calling Trunks' Timeline), branches off from what I'm calling Cell's Timeline in the same way that what I'm calling the Current Main Timeline (so far pretty much just what we saw of "the present" of this arc after Trunks arrived there) branched off from what I'm calling the Cell Games and Black Timeline because Beerus was knowledgeable enough to go and kill Zamasu.

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