Is our Kaioshin unusually weak and incompetent?

[TobyS]

In the super manga Dabra took about SSj1 Trunks, SK and Kibito all at once, he couldn't solo Dabra that's why he recruited the saiyans in the first place.

Do we know he didn't get stronger between the other Kai's dying and the present? I assume he did somewhat. He's probably reached the peak of what he could achieve on his own.

[Zephyr]

Comparing different universes kaioshin where both went under different circumstances to conclude there is evidence of them being powerful because our's couldn't complete his training make absolutely zero sense to me

They have the same job. Presumably they're of similar capability?

[Akyon]

Just to quickly jump on the Weak looking guys= strongest.

Who looks stronger?
Dabura or Fat Buu?
Final Form Frieza or Second form Frieza?
Vegeta or Nappa?
Recoome or First form Frieza?
Master Roshi or Ox King?
Zeno or Beerus?
King Kai or King Yemma?
Or even Shin or Kibito? Kibito honestly looks like he could snap Shin in half like a wafer biscuit.
There's a precedent set that Toriyama likes to make the weaker looking guys the stronger character for sure. Surely you can see that's more the norm than the other way round?

On topic; I used to think Shin was incredibly incompetent based solely on the Buu saga, but Super has helped me see him in a new light. Is he weak for a Kaioshin though? That's a tough question. We've only really got his elders who we know were stronger than him(but not by how much for all of them), Gowasu(unknown strength), Elder Kaioshin(who was shown to not be physically strong) and Zamasu(who is a fighting prodigy far above most other Kaioshin).

In the Super Manga, Shin seems to be far more involved, and honestly comes off as no more incompetent than the majority of the Z fighters. I honestly never thought I'd be defending him. What a year of change 2016 really has been.

[Deathbringer]

Are the Kaioshin all born with high natural strength or do they just exist to play a role in creation regardless of strength? Why was Zamasu so much stronger than the east Kaioshin from universe 7 when all we've ever seen him do is serve tea for Gowasu and seemingly never train? Is it because all Kaioshin have a naturally high level of godly Ki and Zamasu was just putting it to destructive use?

[Luso Saiyan]

Is our little guy the worst Kaioshin of them all, both in terms of power and competence?

We don't know all of them to make that statement one way or the other. What we do know is that he's powerful and competent by his condition as Kaioshin.

[Merged Zamasu]

Are the Kaioshin all born with high natural strength or do they just exist to play a role in creation regardless of strength? Why was Zamasu so much stronger than the east Kaioshin from universe 7 when all we've ever seen him do is serve tea for Gowasu and seemingly never train? Is it because all Kaioshin have a naturally high level of godly Ki and Zamasu was just putting it to destructive use?

Zamasu was a prodigy from birth. He was considered a genius even amongst the Supreme Kais. There really isn't a reason as to why he was born that strong. Frieza, Broly and Zamasu are 3 examples of people who were born with extreme strenght and power, far superior to their peoples' standards.

As Goku stated, Zamasu (when he was still a simple Apprentice) would have easily crushed Supreme Kai.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Comparing different universes kaioshin where both went under different circumstances to conclude there is evidence of them being powerful because our's couldn't complete his training make absolutely zero sense to me

They have the same job. Presumably they're of similar capability?

Plus they most likely actually completed their Kaioshin training, which would automatically place them above our Kaioshin.

Are the Kaioshin all born with high natural strength or do they just exist to play a role in creation regardless of strength? Why was Zamasu so much stronger than the east Kaioshin from universe 7 when all we've ever seen him do is serve tea for Gowasu and seemingly never train? Is it because all Kaioshin have a naturally high level of godly Ki and Zamasu was just putting it to destructive use?

Zamasu is just a natural prodigy, he even had the potential to get as strong as Beerus according to Goku. There's proof of this as well, since in just 20 years he goes from SSJ2 Goku level to being nearly as strong as an SSBlue through training alone.

[SingleFringe&Sparks]

I'd like to think the Kaioshin was just inexperienced and very young. He probably completed his training to be a kai but never actually experienced something at Kid Buu's level, especially taken by surprise. You could tell at first he was a little cocky as a Kai in title, but it became more obvious that he was very very naive.

[MaxZ]

I don't think he's really that incompetent. a bit naive because his elders all died, but he's not that terribly stupid. it was the people that he recruited who were incompetent. the failure of his plan was all on Goku and Vegeta for screwing around, as proven by his efforts succeeding with the aid of Future Trunks instead of Goku and Vegeta in the future.

also

Zamasu is just a natural prodigy, he even had the potential to get as strong as Beerus according to Goku. There's proof of this as well, since in just 20 years he goes from SSJ2 Goku level to being nearly as strong as an SSBlue through training alone.

I don't think Future Zamasu is that strong. his immortality allows him to tank extremely powerful attacks, but in combat I don't think he can even scratch a SSJB level opponent unless he takes them off guard. all Future Zamasu did in fights was block attacks targeted at Black and take pot shots from behind while enemies were distracted fighting Black. I can't remember him ever doing well offensively in a straight up 1 on 1 fight against a SSJB.

[Merged Zamasu]

I don't think he's really that incompetent. a bit naive because his elders all died, but he's not that terribly stupid. it was the people that he recruited who were incompetent. the failure of his plan was all on Goku and Vegeta for screwing around, as proven by his efforts succeeding with the aid of Future Trunks instead of Goku and Vegeta in the future.

also

Zamasu is just a natural prodigy, he even had the potential to get as strong as Beerus according to Goku. There's proof of this as well, since in just 20 years he goes from SSJ2 Goku level to being nearly as strong as an SSBlue through training alone.

I don't think Future Zamasu is that strong. his immortality allows him to tank extremely powerful attacks, but in combat I don't think he can even scratch a SSJB level opponent unless he takes them off guard. all Future Zamasu did in fights was block attacks targeted at Black and take pot shots from behind while enemies were distracted fighting Black. I can't remember him ever doing well offensively in a straight up 1 on 1 fight against a SSJB.

He never really took any fight seriously until the very end when he realized there was a way to counter his immortality. Whenever he was damaged by an attack, Future Zamasu simply revelled in his immortality. Maybe he was not physically as strong as Goku/Vegeta, but his immortality gave him the advantage, since he can just regenerate whenever he takes the slightest bit of damage. I can see Future Zamasu holding his own against SSJB Goku/Vegeta, until he gets too cocky because of his immortality and throws the fight. I got the impression he was always holding back, thinking that there was no reason to waste energies when he has the comfort of immortality.

[FoolsGil]

It's unfair to say he's unusually weak. There's only 4 non-gods in the U7 that can kick his ass. An Entire universe of folks, he's the 5th strongest. He's not the freak, Goku and his friends are.

Second, yeah, he definitely should have handled things a lot differently. Just like in Super's Arc the moment he found out that Babidi was coming to Earth, and the Egg was on Earth, he should have grabbed Goku or somebody to train with the Z Sword, like what was done with Future Trunks.

So no to the first question, yes to the second.

[TheUltimateNinja]

It's unfair to say he's unusually weak. There's only 4 non-gods in the U7 that can kick his ass. An Entire universe of folks, he's the 5th strongest. He's not the freak, Goku and his friends are.

Second, yeah, he definitely should have handled things a lot differently. Just like in Super's Arc the moment he found out that Babidi was coming to Earth, and the Egg was on Earth, he should have grabbed Goku or somebody to train with the Z Sword, like what was done with Future Trunks.

So no to the first question, yes to the second.

I meant in comparison to other Kaioshin. Most Kaioshin we've seen the series have been considerably stronger than him except perhaps for Rou Kaioshin.

[Luso Saiyan]

I meant in comparison to other Kaioshin. Most Kaioshin we've seen the series have been considerably stronger than him except perhaps for Rou Kaioshin.

We've barely seen any Kaioshin, let alone know their powers and how they are comparable.

[TheUltimateNinja]

I meant in comparison to other Kaioshin. Most Kaioshin we've seen the series have been considerably stronger than him except perhaps for Rou Kaioshin.

We've barely seen any Kaioshin, let alone know their powers and how they are comparable.

We've seen 5 others who are considerably stronger than ours. The 3 other Kaioshin of U7, the Dai Kaioshin and Zamasu.

[Luso Saiyan]

We've seen 5 others who are considerably stronger than ours.

No, we haven't. We have only seen those them in the anime, and we definitely haven't seen any "considerable strength" from any of them compared to each other.

and Zamasu.

Zamasu was always introduced as a fighting prodigy. Not comparable to any of the Kaioshin.

[TheUltimateNinja]

We've seen 5 others who are considerably stronger than ours.

No, we haven't. We have only seen those them in the anime, and we definitely haven't seen any "considerable strength" from any of them compared to each other.

and Zamasu.

Zamasu was always introduced as a fighting prodigy. Not comparable to any of the Kaioshin.

Kaioshin outright stated that the others were much stronger than him.

[dragonball0900]

No, we haven't. We have only seen those them in the anime, and we definitely haven't seen any "considerable strength" from any of them compared to each other.

Well, they are not considerable stronger than our Kaioshin, but they were indeed stated that they were at least stronger, with South Kaioshin being the strongest.

[Luso Saiyan]

Well, they are not considerable stronger than our Kaioshin, but they were indeed stated that they were at least stronger, with South Kaioshin being the strongest.

My point exactly. Stronger and strongest. Very abstract terminology to assume that there's a considerable amount of difference between them.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Well, they are not considerable stronger than our Kaioshin, but they were indeed stated that they were at least stronger, with South Kaioshin being the strongest.

My point exactly. Stronger and strongest. Very abstract terminology to assume that there's a considerable amount of difference between them.

If he was unable to cover the gap in power despite having millions of years to train it's safe to assume the others were a lot stronger.

[GodKaio-Ken]

Martial arts are not a Kaioshins first duty. Its ridiculous to think he spent millions of years training his strength. The true purpose of a Kaioshin is guidance and knowledge as Gowasu more or less said.

Anyway i believe he WAS weak at the time of Buu but grew much stronger. He most likely reached the limit of (mostly) solo training.

However there is no evidence our Kaioshin is physically weaker. There is plenty to suggest he understands things less however due to lacking a mentor.