Just how "uncut" is uncut DB / DBZ

MajinVejitaXV · Post by **MajinVejitaXV** » Mon Aug 14, 2006 2:27 pm

These conversations rarely go anywhere, but I'll post this reply then pull the plug:

Xyex wrote:Something significant or that wasn't already there 2 seconds earlier. The 'cuts' are simple splicing edits to smooth out the animation. Hell, it's common practice just in basic editing to remove such extraneous material.

Material that is only made extraneous due to FUNimation's removal of material they had for reasons unknown, of course that material would be the:

And, without the eyecatches interupting the flow of the show, the sudden jump and repeat of a previous scene is quite... disrupting.

That's why you leave them in. Funny, most other anime releases don't seem to have these problems.

Sailor Moon's TV broadcast included a few such jumps, and I saw them frequently (for obvious reasons) on the handful of Naruto subs I've seen. It's jarring and annoying.

...you're comparing a commercial release to a.) a television broadcast where the TV station's commercial breaks didn't sync with the original Japanese broadcast and/or b.) fansubs? Is it just me or are you grasping?

Trimming a few seconds of footage that, in no way alters the show, to fix something like that is far from a bad thing, IMO.

Okay, then I'm gonna cut the SSJ2 transformation at the end of Episode 184 because it's shown again in Episode 185. It doesn't alter the show.

But let me guess. You'd complain if they cut out a single frame of animation, wouldn't you? No matter the reason or cause?

No, I'd complain about false representation of a product or service. It pissed me off back in 1999 when I was 15 and dealing with FUNi, and it pisses me off now at 22 when I deal with health insurance companies in my line of work.

To answer though, a single frame? No, I don't think a single frame would upset me. I'd be a bit puzzled, of course.

Neither Duo nor Strongbad456 were refering to footage in their comments. I can tell, simply based off Strongbad456's comment as well as going to a few other boards where such statements as he was commenting on occur, that they were refering purely to dialogue. Namely, the 'swearing cuts' that people who know only the Anime Labs version of the show claim exist enmass through out the series.

I thought it was a pretty general statement, myself. "Some people will say that Funi's uncut dvds still have stuff cut out but I know for a fact that everything is there and nothing is cut out" sounds like he was saying...well, nothing is cut out.

Anyway, here's my thing:

No, FUNi's discs aren't fully uncut. You can dance around and justify or trivialize it all you want, but the song remains the same, to quote Robert Plant. I answered the question, I provided evidence, I'm done. Stereotype me as the "typical nit-picking fan *insert emoticon here*", I don't care. Doesn't change the facts.

Enjoy your discs, I'll enjoy mine.

-Corey

tarsonis · Post by **tarsonis** » Mon Aug 14, 2006 3:19 pm

It's not nitpicking, it's expecting a company to live up to their word. It doesn't matter how much is cut out. A second's worth of duplicate footage cut out still means it's edited. A very small degree of editing, but edited nonetheless. Sure, someone probably thought it looks weird to have duplicate scenes when there's no eyecatches, but that wouldn't have been a problem had the eyecatches actually been included originally, right?

Super Sonic · Post by **Super Sonic** » Mon Aug 14, 2006 3:51 pm

Question: why do guys nitpick about eyecatches so much in DBZ? TMNT and Gargoyles don't have their eyecatches on their uncut dvds and no one cares.

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Mon Aug 14, 2006 4:34 pm

Super Sonic wrote:Question: why do guys nitpick about eyecatches so much in DBZ? TMNT and Gargoyles don't have their eyecatches on their uncut dvds and no one cares.

Because the eyecatchers are better than sex.

Xyex · Post by **Xyex** » Tue Aug 15, 2006 2:02 am

Material that is only made extraneous due to FUNimation's removal of material they had for reasons unknown, of course that material would be the: ~ That's why you leave them in. Funny, most other anime releases don't seem to have these problems.

Ugh. You're another one of them.

Eyecatchers as extras on the disc you could go look at if you wanted would be nice, but in the middle of the show? God no. >_< They're fine for during TV airings when they want to give you a couple seconds to realize the show is back, but otherwise the are ENTIRELY pointless.

..you're comparing a commercial release to a.) a television broadcast where the TV station's commercial breaks didn't sync with the original Japanese broadcast and/or b.) fansubs? Is it just me or are you grasping?

Is it just me or are you not paying attention to what I'm saying? I wasn't complaining about anything. Merely pointing out that jump cuts caused by removal of comercials/eye catches and repeated footage that just played 2 seconds earliear are disrupting.

Okay, then I'm gonna cut the SSJ2 transformation at the end of Episode 184 because it's shown again in Episode 185. It doesn't alter the show.

Er.... obviously you aren't paying attention. :/

No, I'd complain about false representation of a product or service. It pissed me off back in 1999 when I was 15 and dealing with FUNi, and it pisses me off now at 22 when I deal with health insurance companies in my line of work.

To answer though, a single frame? No, I don't think a single frame would upset me. I'd be a bit puzzled, of course.

No, FUNi's discs aren't fully uncut. You can dance around and justify or trivialize it all you want, but the song remains the same, to quote Robert Plant. I answered the question, I provided evidence, I'm done. Stereotype me as the "typical nit-picking fan *insert emoticon here*", I don't care. Doesn't change the facts.

*sigh*

Because the eyecatchers are better than sex.

Apparently.

Eclipse · Post by **Eclipse** » Tue Aug 15, 2006 3:30 am

Eyecatchers as extras on the disc you could go look at if you wanted would be nice, but in the middle of the show? God no. >_< They're fine for during TV airings when they want to give you a couple seconds to realize the show is back, but otherwise the are ENTIRELY pointless.

Ok, just so I can get my head straight, are the eyecatchers those little 5 second animations at the half point of the episode? For example, would it be that one where Gohan and Videl are driving around in that car?

Jerseymilk · Post by **Jerseymilk** » Tue Aug 15, 2006 3:41 am

Eclipse wrote:
Eyecatchers as extras on the disc you could go look at if you wanted would be nice, but in the middle of the show? God no. >_< They're fine for during TV airings when they want to give you a couple seconds to realize the show is back, but otherwise the are ENTIRELY pointless.
Ok, just so I can get my head straight, are the eyecatchers those little 5 second animations at the half point of the episode? For example, would it be that one where Gohan and Videl are driving around in that car?

You are correct sir.

Post by **desirecampbell** » Tue Aug 15, 2006 4:15 am

I don't understand why this thread has gone on so long.

Are the Funi discs 'uncut'?
The video is almost completely uncut - there are missing eye-catches and repeat footage (that plays after the eye catch). But nothing is censored as the show previously was (and like One Piece currently is.)
The Japanese audio is untouched, and the subtitles are Daimao's excellent work.
The dub is, well, 'the dub'.

What are these 'eye catches'? Why does anyone care?
Eye catches are the lead-out and lead-in clips for the mid-show commercial. They're in most anime, and are kind of a tradition for anime fans. Some western cartoons have eye catches too, but they're never included on dvd releases, and many times are cut from broadcast as well.

That's it - that's all the arguments you can have about this.

Blitzen · Post by **Blitzen** » Tue Aug 15, 2006 4:18 am

desirecampbell wrote:But nothing is censored as the show previously was (and like One Piece currently is.)

Well, with One Piece, it's not a case of Censorship (Because while it is based on Oda's work, it's technically not 'his') because Toei approved/allowed all of the changes to be made.

Still an edit though mind you, and not an overly good one.

Saiyan · Post by **Saiyan** » Tue Aug 15, 2006 5:14 am

desirecampbell wrote:I don't understand why this thread has gone on so long.

Are the Funi discs 'uncut'?
The video is almost completely uncut - there are missing eye-catches and repeat footage (that plays after the eye catch). But nothing is censored as the show previously was (and like One Piece currently is.)
The Japanese audio is untouched, and the subtitles are Daimao's excellent work.
The dub is, well, 'the dub'.

I just have a quick question about this...Not that I'm trying to disprove you or anything, but if the Japanese audio is untouched, does that mean that Funimation has two different video files, one with the eye catches and repeated footage and one without?

Post by **desirecampbell** » Tue Aug 15, 2006 5:45 am

Saiyan wrote:I just have a quick question about this...Not that I'm trying to disprove you or anything, but if the Japanese audio is untouched, does that mean that Funimation has two different video files, one with the eye catches and repeated footage and one without?

Damn!

Well that part of the audio is cut... nitpicky bastards

tarsonis · Post by **tarsonis** » Tue Aug 15, 2006 8:06 am

If they remove eyecatches, they should at least insert 2-3 seconds of empty space. It looks awkward to have it go from one scene (one prior to a commercial break) immediately to the next scene that's supposed to be after the break, without using any breather space in there. This is probably why removal of eyecatches irk some people.

MajinVejitaXV · Post by **MajinVejitaXV** » Tue Aug 15, 2006 8:52 am

Xyex wrote:Ugh. You're another one of them. Eyecatchers as extras on the disc you could go look at if you wanted would be nice, but in the middle of the show? God no. >_< They're fine for during TV airings when they want to give you a couple seconds to realize the show is back, but otherwise the are ENTIRELY pointless.

So pointless you have to cut around them

Think of it this way: You can hit 'Chapter Skip' on your DVD remote to skip the eyecatches/"duplicate" footage if they're on the disc...but if they're not there, people like me who want an uncut product (especially when FUNi used to put their 'TWO VERSIONS LOL! UNCUT JAPANESE WTF?!' splash that took up 1/4-1/6th of the cover) are screwed.

It's always better to get more for your money. I guess you don't get that, so like I said, enjoy your discs...and please, don't work for any studios. I wouldn't want you determining what is pointless and what isn't when mastering a DVD

Funny, BTW, how almost every other anime DVD has the eyecatches. And how FUNi started adding them back in later on...

-Corey

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Tue Aug 15, 2006 11:25 am

MajinVejitaXV wrote:Think of it this way: You can hit 'Chapter Skip' on your DVD remote to skip the eyecatches/"duplicate" footage if they're on the disc...but if they're not there, people like me who want an uncut product are screwed.

You are being waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too anal retentive about this.

It's just some stupid little eyecatchers that have exactly zero impact on the series, and you're acting like they flipped all the footage upside down and colored it green.

MajinVejitaXV · Post by **MajinVejitaXV** » Tue Aug 15, 2006 11:44 am

Rocketman wrote:You are being waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too anal retentive about this.

It's just some stupid little eyecatchers that have exactly zero impact on the series, and you're acting like they flipped all the footage upside down and colored it green.

And you're being way too defensive of a company that sees you as a dollar sign. I'm saying they should have an uncut product (as they so blatantly point out on the case) be uncut, and you're saying what? "I'm happy as long as I get something"?

I always find these arguements amusing. Besides, my whole point was they were cutting additional footage (which, even if similar if not identical to footage before the eyecatch, a lot of times had voice acting and maybe a different angle/animation style) to make their exclusion not look so sloppy. And they added them back in later, so obviously I'm not alone in thinking it was stupid to take them out.

It's a moot point since we're talking old releases, and they already fixed the problem (and the season boxes will more than likely have the eyecatches added back in), but still...come on. You're arguing for them giving you less for your dollar. That's just dumb. It's not like they're making room for the bustling extras by cutting those 10-20 seconds of footage, or even cranking up the video bitrate to make the fast motion scenes not look like ass.

-Corey
Amused to no end.

m121akuma · Post by **m121akuma** » Tue Aug 15, 2006 11:46 am

Well, I think they should edit all blood and questionable content from the series (like punching, kicking, Freeza's lipstick) from the DVD releases, but leave the eyecatches in with no chapter break between them. That way, nobody's happy!

Blitzen · Post by **Blitzen** » Tue Aug 15, 2006 12:00 pm

m121akuma wrote:Well, I think they should edit all blood and questionable content from the series (like punching, kicking, Freeza's lipstick) from the DVD releases, but leave the eyecatches in with no chapter break between them. That way, nobody's happy!

Yeah, how dare people have opinions and stances on things! How dare people be right! How dare people not keep outdated opintions!

tarsonis · Post by **tarsonis** » Tue Aug 15, 2006 12:21 pm

Eyecatches can sometimes add to the viewing experience, but I don't think anyone will imply that they actually affect the show itself. For instance, with DBZ I don't mind if eyecatches are there or not (but as I said before, if they're removed, you need to at least have some blank space). With other series, I might prefer that they're kept in..like with Gundam Wing, which I thought had really good eyecatches. It varies from one show to another.

MajinVejitaXV · Post by **MajinVejitaXV** » Tue Aug 15, 2006 12:23 pm

Blitzen wrote:Yeah, how dare people have opinions and stances on things! How dare people be right! How dare people not keep outdated opintions!

Opinions? Stances? That sounds like terrorist rhetoric. Is you onea them Al Qaedas? ;p

-Corey

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Tue Aug 15, 2006 1:00 pm

MajinVejitaXV wrote:And you're being way too defensive of a company that sees you as a dollar sign. I'm saying they should have an uncut product (as they so blatantly point out on the case) be uncut, and you're saying what? "I'm happy as long as I get something"?

I'm saying, the eyecathers are extras, not part of the series. The show can be uncut without including eyecatchers, just like it can be uncut without including the theme song, or like the manga can be uncut even if it doesn't include the title pages.