Kai Episode 2 (12 April 2009)

[Forgotten Hero]

Is nobody else bummed that they're using the same title card image over, and possibly over again. It just seems kind of lazy. Not that it looks bad or anything, but I always liked all the different, and sometimes crazy, title card images. Though, I do have a feeling that they're going to give each arc its own title card image, since this appears to be the landscape shot for Vegeta and Goku's epic battle on Earth. So maybe for the Freeza arc we'll get a shot of Namek or something. But I still say some new ones would be nice.

I agree! It already feels a bit stale at the beginning of episode two. It hasn't bothered me yet, but it will. Lets hope they do more than just two title cards.

[Ramoro-san]

Maybe it's just because this is a TV broadcast, but I feel like Toei really could have done a better job cleaning up some of the shots. There just seems to be a lot of dust/noise/garbage left in some of the larger color patches. Here's a shot from episode 2, and then a frame from a few seconds later:





I don't know, it's just something that I really noticed, especially in this episode.

Yeah, those shots stuck out like a sore thumb to me. This is the one thing that really dissappointed me about this episode. In episode 1, I didn't catch a single issue with the smoothness of the animation-- there was not a single speck of black or white dust on the picture. And now all of the sudden Raditz has some serious dandruff going on in a few different shots. I was like-- Come on, guys. There's no excuse. All you have to do is watch the footage over before airing it, and FIX IT.

Just want to say I am also loving the BGM so far.

[Saiyavenger2941]

Yeah, those shots stuck out like a sore thumb to me. This is the one thing that really dissappointed me about this episode. In episode 1, I didn't catch a single issue with the smoothness of the animation-- there was not a single speck of black or white dust on the picture. And now all of the sudden Raditz has some serious dandruff going on in a few different shots. I was like-- Come on, guys. There's no excuse. All you have to do is watch the footage over before airing it, and FIX IT.

Just want to say I am also loving the BGM so far.

Oh come on! Don't you realize how hard it is to find a bottle of Head & Shoulders in space?

[Kendamu]

I don't mind that the title cards are the same. I grew up watching Ninja Turtles. All the title cards were the same for the first several seasons.

[kei17]

Maybe it's just because this is a TV broadcast, but I feel like Toei really could have done a better job cleaning up some of the shots. There just seems to be a lot of dust/noise/garbage left in some of the larger color patches. Here's a shot from episode 2, and then a frame from a few seconds later:
*snip*

As I already explained here, in Japan, it is not common to remove such dust originally attatched to the original cels through HD remastering.

They assume that even the dust is a part of the original footage. Only dirt/scratches on films are to be removed. It's not because of their omission at all.
If you mind such dust, just wait for FUNi's HD release. They will remove even the outline of characters cleanly.

[Ramoro-san]

Maybe it's just because this is a TV broadcast, but I feel like Toei really could have done a better job cleaning up some of the shots. There just seems to be a lot of dust/noise/garbage left in some of the larger color patches. Here's a shot from episode 2, and then a frame from a few seconds later:
*snip*

As I already explained here, in Japan, it is not common to remove such dust originally attatched to the original cels through HD remastering.

They assume that even the dust is a part of the original footage. Only dirt/scratches on films are to be removed. It's not because of their omission at all.
If you mind such dust, just wait for FUNi's HD release. They will remove even the outline of characters cleanly.

Then why does such dust appear only in these isolated instances in Kai? It certainly looks to me like they cleaned it up flawlessly everywhere else. Wouldn't we be seeing all kinds of specks? With all due respect, I'm not trying to be smart, I just don't buy it.
Even on Funimation's "remastering," you can see plenty of shit all over. Then came Kai episode 1, and I'm like Hallelujah! No specks. And now episode 2 has just 4 or 5 shots with ugly dandruff? Something's off about it.

[kei17]

Then why does such dust appear only in these isolated instances in Kai? It certainly looks to me like they cleaned it up flawlessly everywhere else. Wouldn't we be seeing all kinds of specks? With all due respect, I'm not trying to be smart, I just don't buy it.
Even on Funimation's "remastering," you can see plenty of shit all over. Then came Kai episode 1, and I'm like Hallelujah! No specks. And now episode 2 has just 4 or 5 shots with ugly dandruff? Something's off about it.

If the dust appears through a number of frames, that is not the dirt/scratch on the film.
Such dust must has attatched to the cels before/during filming. Whether it happens or not depends on the skills of the person who filmed the episode(scenes?).

[Hujio]

If the dust appears through a number of frames, that is not the dirt/scratch on the film.
Such dust must have been attached to the cels before/during filming. Whether it happens or not depends on the skills of the person who filmed the episode (scenes?).

I understand where you're coming from, as most of the dust shown is in the original Z footage. However, due to the remastering process, it has become much more noticeable. So why not take the extra step and edit out the dust from a certain scene? I mean, isn't that what they use computers for, to make doing stuff like this easy? If I were putting this much work into making something the best I could, I would want it to be spotless. If they're going to the effort of re-animating scenes, why not touch up a couple to get rid of the dust. And watching through it, I don't know how they could miss it. In most cases it's so obvious.

I don't have a huge problem with it, but it still bothers me. I think the worst part for me is that they've spent all this time and money to make a show from the late 80's stand up in HD, but they won't take the time to fix a couple dust spots that aren't even evident in the original and are only noticeable because of the remastering. So in the end, they're really shooting themselves in the foot. I can understand the logic of thinking that since this was a mistake on the photography of the cel itself, this inherently made it part of the original footage. But they sort of contradict themselves by re-animating scenes, which are an original part of the footage. It sort of seems like they're picking and choosing what they want to fix and what to leave the same.

Here's a scene comparison between the remastered Kai footage and the same shot from the Dragon Box. You'll notice the spot I highlighted isn't visible in the Z Dragon Box footage, but is really obvious in the Kai footage only because of the remastering. Why not fix something that they've technically caused themselves?

[MCDaveG]

Who knows, maybe the original Raditz got a dandruff
You know, HD

[kei17]

I understand where you're coming from, as most of the dust shown is in the original Z footage. However, due to the remastering process, it has become much more noticeable. So why not take the extra step and edit out the dust from a certain scene? I mean, isn't that what they use computers for, to make doing stuff like this easy? If I were putting this much work into making something the best I could, I would want it to be spotless. If they're going to the effort of re-animating scenes, why not touch up a couple to get rid of the dust. And watching through it, I don't know how they could miss it. In most cases it's so obvious.

I don't have a huge problem with it, but it still bothers me. I think the worst part for me is that they've spent all this time and money to make a show from the late 80's stand up in HD, but they won't take the time to fix a couple dust spots that aren't even evident in the original and are only noticeable because of the remastering. So in the end, they're really shooting themselves in the foot. I can understand the logic of thinking that since this was a mistake on the photography of the cel itself, this inherently made it part of the original footage. But they sort of contradict themselves by re-animating scenes, which are an original part of the footage. It sort of seems like they're picking and choosing what they want to fix and what to leave the same.

As I said, again, they assume that even the dust is a part of the original footage. All materials on the master films except dirt/scratches because of aging are to be remained. It's the usual way of HD remastering in Japan. However, I do understand your opinion. They should have removed such materials to make it "refreshed". I guess the reason they left such dust is that they have not HD remastered DBZ only for Kai. I mean, they'll release DBZ box(es) again with the footage HD-remastered this time so they didn't remove the dust on screen. Making two different footage by HD remastering costs too much for them.

Here's a scene comparison between the remastered Kai footage and the same shot from the Dragon Box. You'll notice the spot I highlighted isn't visible in the Z Dragon Box footage, but is really obvious in the Kai footage only because of the remastering. Why not fix something that they've technically caused themselves?

That's not only because of the "remastering". That's because of their colour edit to make the footage look like digitally-made anime, which isn't common edit on radical HD remastering process. I roughly edited the colours of your shot from DBOX to make it look like the Kai's shot. His hair has very high brightness in Kai. That made his hair dusty.



Now you can see the "spot", but distantly. It's because of the SD (re)mastering, I think.

[Bejiita]

After seeing the way it was being remastered (there was that clip showing that they have to trace all the pictures using tablets), that's a really time consuming job, if they had to do that to the entire series (or rather what's being left in). But to me, I would find that one of the best jobs! Not only are you taking part in making DB Kai, you'd have the sly opportunity of correcting certain drawing errors the original animators made. It could be something as simple as a 'cross-eyed' picture gone wrong, or even redrawing an entire cel that one of the shit animators screwed up, somehow I don't think any of the (from what we've seen anyone can do the tracing) people doing the tracing have the bother (or you could even say confidence) to tamper that drastically with the original picture they are copying over, I just hope none of the bad art stands out as much and that this HD remaster (which looks likely to be the last form of major updating that will ever be done to the DBZ) gives us fans the final smooth make-over to end it.

[Ramoro-san]

Here's a scene comparison between the remastered Kai footage and the same shot from the Dragon Box. You'll notice the spot I highlighted isn't visible in the Z Dragon Box footage, but is really obvious in the Kai footage only because of the remastering. Why not fix something that they've technically caused themselves?

Oh, geez. Those screenshots make the original DBox look way better than Kai to me. I mean, obviously the picture is much more crisp and clean there. I don't know about this whole refreshed thing now although I've been really excited for it... We'll just have to see how future episodes turn out, as well as the eventual Blu-ray/DVD release of Kai. I wonder if it will look any different when watching it that way? Wishful thinking...

[Mayuri Furiza Kurotsuchi]

I feel that we should hold off on quality comparisons until we get some decent RAWS from DBKai. It will make a gigantic difference,

[Hujio]

That's not only because of the "remastering". That's because of their colour edit to make the footage look like digitally-made anime, which isn't common edit on radical HD remastering process. I roughly edited the colours of your shot from DBOX to make it look like the Kai's shot. His hair has very high brightness in Kai. That made his hair dusty.

*snipped image*

Now you can see the "spot", but distantly. It's because of the SD (re)mastering, I think.

When I said the spot was "really obvious in the Kai footage only because of the remastering", I was including the color editing as part of the remastering. Like I said, I can live with it, but it's just annoying to know that the only reason the dust is visible is because they made it visible by "remastering" and "re-coloring" it. I just think if they made it a problem, they should fix it.

After seeing the way it was being remastered (there was that clip showing that they have to trace all the pictures using tablets), that's a really time consuming job, if they had to do that to the entire series (or rather what's being left in). But to me, I would find that one of the best jobs! Not only are you taking part in making DB Kai, you'd have the sly opportunity of correcting certain drawing errors the original animators made. It could be something as simple as a 'cross-eyed' picture gone wrong, or even redrawing an entire cel that one of the shit animators screwed up, somehow I don't think any of the (from what we've seen anyone can do the tracing) people doing the tracing have the bother (or you could even say confidence) to tamper that drastically with the original picture they are copying over, I just hope none of the bad art stands out as much and that this HD remaster (which looks likely to be the last form of major updating that will ever be done to the DBZ) gives us fans the final smooth make-over to end it.

Well, they haven't traced every single scene. The only scenes that have been traced are the ones that are getting re-animated. If they had, the lines around everything would be much darker and look smoother. I've looked through enough footage to notice this.

Oh, geez. Those screenshots make the original DBox look way better than Kai to me. I mean, obviously the picture is much more crisp and clean there. I don't know about this whole refreshed thing now although I've been really excited for it... We'll just have to see how future episodes turn out, as well as the eventual Blu-ray/DVD release of Kai. I wonder if it will look any different when watching it that way? Wishful thinking...

I will say that for the most part, the colors in Kai look really nice and are much more consistent than those in Z. There are actually very few problems like this. There are just a handful of short 5 second scenes that are like this. Other than that, they really have done an excellent job, especially with the colors. If anything, the quality control and care put into doing this is much much better than another company that attempted doing this.

I feel that we should hold off on quality comparisons until we get some decent RAWS from DBKai. It will make a gigantic difference.

The RAWs aren't going to make any difference in this comparison, because the dust will still be there. I mean, I could even see the dust when I was watching it live on TVants, which isn't anywhere near the quality of the screen shot I showed above.

[DongHyun]

audience rate of Kai episode 2 in Japan.

9.8%

[Saiyavenger2941]

audience rate of Kai episode 2 in Japan.

9.8%

Is this good or bad? (I dunno how their rating system works over there, so...)

[Kendamu]

audience rate of Kai episode 2 in Japan.

9.8%

Is this good or bad? (I dunno how their rating system works over there, so...)

A little less than episode 1, but looks similar to the ratings of the other shows on around the same time from the previous week. I think it's good.

[DongHyun]

audience rate of Kai episode 2 in Japan.

9.8%

Is this good or bad? (I dunno how their rating system works over there, so...)

18.8%(16.3%) 04/12 18:30-19:00 CX* Sazaesang
13.7%(11.5%) 04/12 18:00-18:30 CX* Chibi Maruko Chan
*9.8%(11.3%) 04/12 *9:00-*9:30 CX* Dragon Ball Kai
*8.8%(*9.9%) 04/12 *9:30-10:00 CX* One Piece

[JulieYBM]

Bah! One Piece got an 8.8 when it had one of the absolutely best episodes ever? Blashphamy!

[Herms]

It's impressive for Kai to beat One Piece again. As much as I love One Piece, I kind of hope this keeps up.