"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[Magnificent Ponta]

And I don't understand the idea that supposedly the premise of this arc was that Moro was a villain who didn't use brute force to overcome his enemies.

I agree. I don't know where people get this notion from.

But even if we accepted it as true for the sake of argument, then those same people should be delighted to see the way the plot has shifted back to domination of 'brute force' by superior technique - only this time in favour of the heroes, since that's what Ultra Instinct is all about. But no.

I swear, the worst thing about this arc isn't anything Toyotarou's done; it's the legion of crappy hot takes from people who dig their heels in and manufacture new grievances every month so that they don't have to come to terms with their bad faith engagement.

[TobyS]

And I don't understand the idea that supposedly the premise of this arc was that Moro was a villain who didn't use brute force to overcome his enemies.

I agree. I don't know where people get this notion from.

But even if we accepted it as true for the sake of argument, then those same people should be delighted to see the way the plot has shifted back to domination of 'brute force' by superior technique - only this time in favour of the heroes, since that's what Ultra Instinct is all about. But no.

I swear, the worst thing about this arc isn't anything Toyotarou's done; it's the legion of crappy hot takes from people who dig their heels in and manufacture new grievances every month so that they don't have to come to terms with their bad faith engagement.

Preach brother it's so tiresome. Toyo has no chance of seeing it so you can't even argue it's constructive.

I wish there was a positivity only thread each month tbh. Fucking Reddit of all places is generally better and that's sad as usually that's sites full of reactionary little shits

[Magnificent Ponta]

Preach brother it's so tiresome. Toyo has no chance of seeing it so you can't even argue it's constructive.

I wish there was a positivity only thread each month tbh.

[shameless plug] Well, it's not exactly a positivity thread, but I did start The Super Re-Read thread to take in the whole sweep of the manga, aiming at an appreciation of it as a whole (I mean that both in the sense of a general appraisal and in the sense of calling out things we enjoy). It'll get to the Moro arc eventually. [/shameless plug]

2. A personal anecdote: I've seen so much fanart of Moro since he absorbed Seven-three. I just thought that was interesting since so many people claim to dislike the design and think the story has gone down hill recently.

That's pretty interesting - I seem to recall there being takes that the Moro arc hasn't gotten much traction as it hasn't generated much fan-art, or some such claim. I wonder what about Moro's latest design would inspire an upswing in that, though - perhaps just because it's easier to draw than his original design?

[LoganForkHands73]

Pretty much this. And I don't understand the idea that supposedly the premise of this arc was that Moro was a villain who didn't use brute force to overcome his enemies.

Moro's main magic, absorption, has always been aimed at increasing his raw power. Although he started the story as a weaker character than Goku and Vegeta, he initially overcame both using a technique they couldn't handle. Once the Saiyan duo got what they needed to deny the villain's absorption, it was obvious that Moro needed to be at least as strong as they were. And this is how Dragon Ball works, raw power usually always stands out in relation to some hax or special technique (Ultra Instinct's auto dodge ability can be rivaled through strength for example).

And as already shown, Moro continued to use other magical abilities even after becoming a powerhouse. But they have always been used more as a support than as the main thing.

To be fair, Moro's energy parasitism was originally just as much about making his opponent weaker than himself rather than solely gaining strength, that was the most interesting thing. Vegeta being unable to even muster Super Saiyan 1 was a huge "oh fuck" moment. Not saying that Moro should do nothing but that across the whole arc, but I can see where the argument comes from.

[batistabus]

Decided to throw together some block-style manga covers for this arc. One with spoilers and one with fewer:

Spoiler:

2. A personal anecdote: I've seen so much fanart of Moro since he absorbed Seven-three. I just thought that was interesting since so many people claim to dislike the design and think the story has gone down hill recently.

That's pretty interesting - I seem to recall there being takes that the Moro arc hasn't gotten much traction as it hasn't generated much fan-art, or some such claim. I wonder what about Moro's latest design would inspire an upswing in that, though - perhaps just because it's easier to draw than his original design?

Honestly, I think it comes from a place of genuine enthusiasm. This arc can get heavily criticized in pockets of the internet, and I have my personal issues with it, but most places I look, people seem to be happy with what's going on. Sure, you'll hear people refer to Moro73 as "discount Cell" or say that they miss the more unique goat look, but his new form still looks cool, and we're nearing the climax of the arc.

[GodVegetto91]

What do you all make of this?

Still not working for me, but I could see the first image after filling some Capcha, so here's a mirror

Do you have an actual “image” (like these ones above) of Vegito Blue with the explanation that his strength rivals Beerus?

Thanks.

[MCDaveG]

You know, I actually like this arc... My only gripe is with minor design elements and that we are still before the original manga epilogue where everyone is safe and sound, so outside of new world building elements and lore, there are no real stakes.

But overall, I liked the Buu and Lord Kaioshin throwback to Buu arc and hope to see it animated. Vegeta's new techniques and him being trained more technically like Goku was interesting. I liked Merus. Moro being kind of like intergalactic King Piccolo, but his first design was interesting and more out of the box than we are used to recently as opposed to lazy designs like Jiren for example.

I am actually wondering if it wasn't Toyotaro, who designed Moro... because Toriyama simplified his style since the end of the manga so much till today, that his alien designs are not much interesting and really plain (Zuno, Omniking and his bodyguards, fighters on the 6th universe tournament etc.) and Moro is this kind of a more complicated design we are used to from the original series era... Like Cell for example, he must have been kind of a nightmare to animate from all the characters so far with all his details and the patterns.
And Toyotaro, when himself, retains the style that Toriyama had 20 years ago, thanks to him being a Dragon Ball fan and copy the original art first.

[Koitsukai]

What do you all make of this?

Still not working for me, but I could see the first image after filling some Capcha, so here's a mirror

Do you have an actual “image” (like these ones above) of Vegito Blue with the explanation that his strength rivals Beerus?

Thanks.

Probably you won't get an answer any time soon seeing the post it's from may, lol, so here's the original scan:

Spoiler:

Basically it says after merging with the potara their blue form(they use the word SHINKA-evolution or progress), rivals/equals(they use the verb Hitteki suru) Beerus' power.

And this is the translated scan by Cipher:

Spoiler:

[GodVegetto91]

Still not working for me, but I could see the first image after filling some Capcha, so here's a mirror

Do you have an actual “image” (like these ones above) of Vegito Blue with the explanation that his strength rivals Beerus?

Thanks.

Probably you won't get an answer any time soon seeing the post it's from may, lol, so here's the original scan:

Spoiler:

Basically it says after merging with the potara their blue form(they use the word SHINKA-evolution or progress), rivals/equals(they use the verb Hitteki suru) Beerus' power.

And this is the translated scan by Cipher:

Spoiler:

So no image? Yeah I just found these two images you just send me now earlier today. But thanks anyways

[TKA]

Yo those colored pages are wack!

[Xeogran]

I just want Moro to be given justice next chapter. Jiren had an even fight against MUI in both anime and manga, you're telling me the next antagonist after him just loses like that, especially after all those months spent on him..

It also better be Moro getting up on his own, rather than Goku throwing him a Senzu that Krillin conveniently delivers.

[Femme Fatale Kikaza]

I just want Moro to be given justice next chapter. Jiren had an even fight against MUI in both anime and manga, you're telling me the next antagonist after him just loses like that, especially after all those months spent on him..

It also better be Moro getting up on his own, rather than Goku throwing him a Senzu that Krillin conveniently delivers.

How would Moro even do that? He's literally crushed under a rock, MUI Goku was running circles around him and beat his ass to near death. Unless Moro knows how to heal himself,I don't see how he could get up on his own.

[Koitsukai]

I just want Moro to be given justice next chapter. Jiren had an even fight against MUI in both anime and manga, you're telling me the next antagonist after him just loses like that, especially after all those months spent on him..

It also better be Moro getting up on his own, rather than Goku throwing him a Senzu that Krillin conveniently delivers.

How would Moro even do that? He's literally crushed under a rock, MUI Goku was running circles around him and beat his ass to near death. Unless Moro knows how to heal himself,I don't see how he could get up on his own.

Didn't 7-3 have the regen ability? that should still be working even with his crystals shattered. 7-3 also had infinite stamina, but that ability doesn't seem to be as consistent as others, Zamasu had it too but Goku still made him suffer and pant. The point being Moro might just need a little time to regrow his limbs and recover his breath.

Anyway, I don't think this fight should live past november. Not the arc because there might still be some loose ends, post-fighting stuff, dealing with the GP about Merus, but Moro should be definitively stopped this month or the next, probably the next.

[SupremeKai25]

Jump Fiesta is where they usually reveal new arcs/movies, right? So I don't see the point of stretching out this arc even more, if anything it makes the most sense to wrap this up so that they can announce a new arc at Jump Fiesta. My prediction:

This month: Conclusion of the Goku vs. Moro fight, I personally hope that either Goku or Beerus kill him, but it could also end in a unusual way like... ugh... Moro being forgiven/spared.

Next month. Aftermath of the fight with Moro, everyone celebrates, maybe a small hint of the future arc, the end.

Then when December comes they can announce the new arc at Jump Fiesta. Such a major shonen convention would certainly generate a lot of traffic for whatever storyline they have in mind next, it's the perfect opportunity.

[Miracles]

I just want Moro to be given justice next chapter. Jiren had an even fight against MUI in both anime and manga, you're telling me the next antagonist after him just loses like that, especially after all those months spent on him..

It also better be Moro getting up on his own, rather than Goku throwing him a Senzu that Krillin conveniently delivers.

Yep.I think everyone who understands DB expects Moro to make a comeback somehow.
Usually villains don't go down without a fight.

[BagetaSama]

This arc really proves there's no end to the amount of things that people will complain about. It's incredibly, in so many different ways, yet almost nothing but complaints. Whether it be the fight scenes, the lorebuilding, the tension, the rewarding power-ups, etc etc.

[Matches Malone]

This arc really proves there's no end to the amount of things that people will complain about. It's incredibly, in so many different ways, yet almost nothing but complaints. Whether it be the fight scenes, the lorebuilding, the tension, the rewarding power-ups, etc etc.

The arc is without doubt the best thing we've gotten since the BOG movie, my only issue with it is the pacing, it could've been better.

[Femme Fatale Kikaza]

As long as they don't spare Moro for some reason at end I'll tolerate what happens. Because I will scream if they let someone like this live after this arc, knowing Moro existing will bite them all in ass.

[Alruneia]

I just want Moro to be given justice next chapter. Jiren had an even fight against MUI in both anime and manga, you're telling me the next antagonist after him just loses like that, especially after all those months spent on him..

It also better be Moro getting up on his own, rather than Goku throwing him a Senzu that Krillin conveniently delivers.

Yep. I think everyone who understands DB expects Moro to make a comeback somehow.
Usually villains don't go down without a fight.

I'm honestly surprised at how many posts/comments/etc. I've seen where people don't think this is going to happen, and instead, UI Goku is just going to beat Moro right now, end of story. I can understand wanting the arc to end and all, but that just isn't how Dragon Ball operates. I think I already made a post in this thread about how not straightforward Dragon Ball is, actually. It's best to just hope that the upcoming twist isn't completely inorganic, because it's certainly coming.

This arc really proves there's no end to the amount of things that people will complain about. It's incredibly, in so many different ways, yet almost nothing but complaints. Whether it be the fight scenes, the lorebuilding, the tension, the rewarding power-ups, etc etc.

This is mostly done by a small but very vocal minority, though. There does seem to be no end to the complaints, but a lot of it comes from the same people complaining over and over in multiple locations.

[BagetaSama]

This arc really proves there's no end to the amount of things that people will complain about. It's incredibly, in so many different ways, yet almost nothing but complaints. Whether it be the fight scenes, the lorebuilding, the tension, the rewarding power-ups, etc etc.

The arc is without doubt the best thing we've gotten since the BOG movie, my only issue with it is the pacing, it could've been better.

I mean that's pretty fair. You think it's too slow? Or too fast?