Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[ZombieVito]

5,000 for Bardock seems right for some reason.

[Hugo Boss]

I should say I’m very curious if there will be a battle power reading in next chapter, be it from Gas or Bardock, or anything that goes beyond that notion, particularly how Bardock manages to outdo Gas, despite having less strength.

[Koitsukai]

So, Goku Blue is fighting, helped by UI, the strongest in the universe.
There's some experience, technique, skills, strategies, bla bla, involved, and he is taking a beating, yeah, but he sure is not dying against Gas and the fight's been going for a while now. And he was never fully healed, either.
There's no reason to believe Gas is not going all out or holding his punches, although he probably has something left for whenever silver hair Goku comes back.

So, is his MnG+SSB that much stronger than when he fought a suppressed Granola clone? he is doing much better than a post-senzu 2-eyed Granola, who was fighting an even weaker Gas and was defeated immediately when Gas unleashed his power.

What do you guys make out of this? has he progressed that much in SSB+UI, to the point of probably being U7's second best at the moment?
Do you think UE Vegeta could do even better? or it's just the result of his strategy. I mean, he did block a kick that left his arm all bruised, probably not taking severe damage thanks to UI.

How would this SSB+UI Goku fare against past enemies? could he take ToP Jiren? or AngelMoro73? Could he take Granola?

[Lukmendes]

And even crazier than that, Whis sneaked a communication device onto Goku without Gas noticing.

That communication device also clearly wasn't on Goku's belt when he was teleporting back to Cereal, and even after he arrived it still wasn't there, it's only after Goku's in that car that the communication device show up, so it looks like Whis snuck in the communication device after Goku left, somehow... No wonder Goku is baffled and wonders how the hell Whis did that lol.

[Thani]

So, Goku Blue is fighting, helped by UI, the strongest in the universe.
There's some experience, technique, skills, strategies, bla bla, involved, and he is taking a beating, yeah, but he sure is not dying against Gas and the fight's been going for a while now. And he was never fully healed, either.
There's no reason to believe Gas is not going all out or holding his punches, although he probably has something left for whenever silver hair Goku comes back.

So, is his MnG+SSB that much stronger than when he fought a suppressed Granola clone? he is doing much better than a post-senzu 2-eyed Granola, who was fighting an even weaker Gas and was defeated immediately when Gas unleashed his power.

What do you guys make out of this? has he progressed that much in SSB+UI, to the point of probably being U7's second best at the moment?
Do you think UE Vegeta could do even better? or it's just the result of his strategy. I mean, he did block a kick that left his arm all bruised, probably not taking severe damage thanks to UI.

How would this SSB+UI Goku fare against past enemies? could he take ToP Jiren? or AngelMoro73? Could he take Granola?

To me at least, Ultra Instinct is just that good. He's still ultimately losing to all of those people.

Perfected Ultra Instinct and Ultra Ego are still the only ways that Goku and Vegeta could potentially defeat those "strongest in the universe" characters.

[Hugo Boss]

The way I see it, Goku is only lasting so much against the powered-up Gas because he is exploiting weakness as far as his flawed version of migatte no goku’i allows. Whenever Goku is directly engaging Gas on close combat, he is barely reducing the damage received from the attacks. Granolah, in another hand, had less fighting experience than Goku, despite having acquired some refinement of his own abilities. Let’s not forget Goku also fought Granolah using similar adaptation and he still couldn’t make much headway. Vegeta’s “wagamama no goku’i” still threw Granolah off in a way Goku also couldn’t do. So, in the strict strength department, Goku is probably the 4th strongest here (not considering his kanzenban migatte no goku’i).

Speaking of his past enemies, I think you could make a parallel of his current strength with his migatte no goku’i omen version from the Tournament of Power arc. So, he is not beating Jiren or Moro with just that.

[Miracles]

Goku is only lasting against Gas because he is playing "defense." Also, using Gas's lack of experience of Instantaneous Movement to his advantage [Escaping Gas's onslaught]. Not to mention Gas is here for revenge. He wants to see the fire of Bardock. Gas stated he wouldn't be "satisfied" if Goku were simply to die by drowning.

[picc]

Either Goku is surviving by playing defense against Gas, and AT is portraying this as giving fighters a disproportionate chance of lasting in a fight against a much stronger opponent, as well as using his IT to run and disorient Gas at the same time

or

Goku's blue form is stronger than a form (UE) that was stronger than a fighter (One-eye Granola) that was stronger than a form (MUI) that was much stronger than Goku's blue form as short as 20 minutes ago

[Skar]

I checked those wafer cards discussed a few pages ago. They have Piccolo still between base and SSJ Gohan like in RoF. Base Goku and Vegeta are between Piccolo and SSJ Gohan while Krillin is between the base kids and Gohan. It's interesting that Ultimate Piccolo is slightly above Gohan but maybe being the Nameless Namek + another Warrior Namek boosted his potential. Piccolo might also some God ki from Kami and this could the Namekian God form?

[Hugo Boss]

Piccolo might also some God ki from Kami and this could the Namekian God form?

Ever since the idea of god ki was introduced and when Goku and Vegeta learned how to tap into it on their own, I think this opened up a realm of possibilities for the dragon team, specially Piccolo, who keeps training even in peaceful times. Gohan is also a good candidate for it, whenever he is trained by Piccolo. There is also Oob, who inherited god ki from Majin Boo. It could be just a subtle change, like skin tone, hair color or aura.

[Thani]

Piccolo absolutely should inherit it. Kami may not have a LOT of god ki (a similar problem Dende had), but he was still a god when he and Piccolo remerged.

It's amazing this still never happened and, yet, is the most obvious route

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

I don't know if Toriyama and Toei's writers on the film will remember it, but I dearly hope that this new power-up comes about because Piccolo is realizing the depths of the potential he has as the reincarnation of the Nameless Namekian whose power could've surpassed even Freeza alongside having Nail in there as well.

[Mr Baggins]

I don't care for this "Nameless Namekian" stuff, although I'm sure a lot of people do.

Transformations, as Toriyama writes them, tend to arise from internal development or are the catalysts for another character's development. They are character milestones, with "the lore" being a secondary element at best. Background info like that can help make things make sense, but it's not integral to the story at all. Don't be surprised if it isn't mentioned.

[Thani]

I don't care for this "Nameless Namekian" stuff, although I'm sure a lot of people do.

Transformations, as Toriyama writes them, tend to arise from internal development or are the catalysts for another character's development. They are character milestones, with "the lore" being a secondary element at best. Background info like that can help make things make sense, but it's not integral to the story at all. Don't be surprised if it isn't mentioned.

Imo the Nameless Namekian thing payed off in the android saga when he reformed as Piccolo. He's back already, and proved Guru right by actually being stronger than a normal Super Saiyan. So I'm personally not expecting it to make a comeback.

I do hope for a "Piccolo has god ki because Kami IS a god and they merged" angle though. Imo would be a good point of development for his new power-up, and I hope his character as well.

[Skar]

Imo the Nameless Namekian thing payed off in the android saga when he reformed as Piccolo. He's back already, and proved Guru right by actually being stronger than a normal Super Saiyan. So I'm personally not expecting it to make a comeback.

Yeah I also don't expect the Nameless Namek to be brought up again. I think this current NN has more potential since the original was just a strong member of the Dragon clan member while this version has a warrior namek as the base who had already fused with another warrior Namek.

I was speculating a possible explanation for Piccolo's power-up. It's labeled the same as Gohan's but likely won't involve Old Kai's ritual. Tapping into the God ki inherited from Kami could explain how Piccolo unlocks this form on his own. I'm still curious what happens in Super Hero that leads to unlock it only here and not in any previous battle though.

[BWri]

I don't know if Toriyama and Toei's writers on the film will remember it, but I dearly hope that this new power-up comes about because Piccolo is realizing the depths of the potential he has as the reincarnation of the Nameless Namekian whose power could've surpassed even Freeza alongside having Nail in there as well.

This is the best route for the character, though there are so many more potential routes for him that it's been maddening all these years not seeing the writers follow up on any of these. Since his base is so high, I would've even settled for him just learning Kaioken and pushing that as far as it can go thanks to his powers of regeneration.

[GreatSaiyaman123]

So, if Bardock is still a low class saiyan and is fighting Gas, who is still superior, how strong are they, really?

No scouter has been destroyed due to overload, 30 years later they still cannot go past 22,000, unless they are the newer models that the Ginyu have, that probably didn't exist back then, and if they did, no shitty ass saiyan is wearing them to conquer fucking Cereal-sei.

So, what? Gas 8,000? 10,000? 5,000? and Bardock somewhere between 1,000 and 5,000? Gas thinks Bardock isn't a low level saiyan based on his skills. So Bardock is Nappa level by now? the gap shouldn't be that much, considering he somehow managed to overcome it.

I can see Bardock being quite powerful. The way I see it class is defined at birth, so Bardock could never level up to middle class or elite. I think the average Saiyan was somewhere in the 2,000 range though, so Bardock at 3,000 sounds good. He did literally no damage to Gas and will rely on something of a weakness to beat him that Goku will exploit, so I see no reason to say he’s more powerful than his OVA self.

[TobyS]

Class is decided at birth but it usually stays because Saiyans generally don't help each other or live to make it to a healing tank to get a zenkai. Bardock was apparently unusual in that he saved his comrades so maybe they returned the favour and saved him and he got more zenkais than usual. I don't want him being higher than nappas 4/5000ish. Narratively the weaker he is the better.

[picc]

Nappa’s closer to 8000 than he is to 4000.

[ZombieVito]

Nappa’s closer to 8000 than he is to 4000.

His official power level is 4,000.