Daizenshuu EX DB wiki...again

[JulieYBM]

If quotes were to be taken from the Manga I could very well see a writing of it in Japanese and then a translation from that text by Julians #1 or #2, but that's not my call.

[VegettoEX]

The thing I hate the most about dragonball.wikia.com is that they would quote a character but you don't know whether it is from the manga or the anime, or the dub or sub, which leaves a bunch of inconsistencies. They seem to be leaning toward the English dub of the anime for accuracy, but at the same time they would use the movies as well. I didn't read through all 18 pages of this topic, but I was wondering what media is the focus for this wiki? Is it the manga, but any information from the anime or dub will be specified as such?

Information is information.

What separates Daizenshuu EX and Kanzentai from other sites is that, in addition to generally knowing WTF we're talking about and have a significant history that exceeds the vast majority of other so-called communities and organizations, we source our information. There's no question over what tidbit comes from where, because we're explicit and state the source right there alongside the actual information.

We still have a lot to talk about internally among the owners and administrators, but the goal in general is going to be an extension of what our sites already do, almost as a test-ground and general collection of raw information, data, etc. before/as it gets "vetted" for professional presentation on our site(s). The big difference is that the community we'll be exploiting for these purposes (hey, that's you!) is far know knowledgeable and already does the kinds of things that we'd be asking of you.

You have knowledge, but you also have standards. Furthermore, you'll have a group of administrators there each step of the way to guide things. Just like our site and forum as it exists already... blah blah blah.

I could keep typing, but it doesn't really matter. You all know what I'm talking about, and it's not like I'm ready to launch this thing right this second, anyway.

[Bussani]

Wikis make adding references very simple, so there shouldn't be problems citing quotes and information.

[Hellspawn28]

Are we still working on the wiki again by anychance?

[Innagadadavida]

Are we still working on the wiki again by anychance?

VegettoEX is currently in the "don't fuck with me" stage of the planning process.

[VegettoEX]

Are we still working on the wiki again by anychance?

VegettoEX is currently in the "don't fuck with me" stage of the planning process.

Shit, man... I'm always in the "don't fuck with me" stage of everything...!

But yeah. Planning. Lots of planning. And thinking. And playing video games. And sleeping. And working on the actual website.

And some more planning.

[Hujio]

But yeah. Planning. Lots of planning. And thinking. And playing video games. And sleeping. And working on the actual website.

This all sound vaguely familiar for some reason.

[Hellspawn28]

I hope we can make this wiki happen since their has not been a good Dragon Ball wiki so far from what I have seen. Seeing the DB wiki, and the AS showdown wikispaces are pretty awful.

[GreggMays64]

I am not trying to go off topic but the Megaman Wiki kinda ticks me off by mentioning characters from Megaman NT Warriors dub names. No not Lan, I mean Wackoman or Torchman.

http://megaman.wikia.com/wiki/WackoMan

Things that piss me off about both this and Dragonball is that my computer freezes as I browse through them.

[Bussani]

I am not trying to go off topic but the Megaman Wiki kinda ticks me off by mentioning characters from Megaman NT Warriors dub names. No not Lan, I mean Wackoman or Torchman.

http://megaman.wikia.com/wiki/WackoMan

If it's just like the first line ("ColorMan.EXE, known as ColoredMan.EXE (カラードマン, ColoredMan.EXE?) in Japan and WackoMan.EXE in the English anime dub") then it isn't a problem. That's worthwhile information. Switching between one and the other throughout the article like it does is a case of bad editing, though.

Things that piss me off about both this and Dragonball is that my computer freezes as I browse through them.

Dub names make your computer freeze?

[GreggMays64]

Things that piss me off about both this and Dragonball is that my computer freezes as I browse through them.

Dub names make your computer freeze?

No, sometimes my computer freezes as I'm browsing through them.

But yeah, I agree. The wiki's need to be more like One Piece, have the Japanese name like Zoro and then have a thing that saids also known as Zolo in the English manga or 4kids English dub. If One Piece can use Japanese names, yet alone the Japanese phrases like Gomu Gomu No, then why can't they be like it?

[ThunderPX]

Wikis make adding references very simple, so there shouldn't be problems citing quotes and information.

Wikis don't natively support the "references" thing Wikipedia has, though; it's a template (and might require extensions to function properly, but I'm not sure.) Personally on my own wiki I simply use a template that simply adds a superscript "[src]" link that takes you to the URL of the source immediately, but given that Dragon Ball is primarily a comic and a TV series, something more like Wikipedia's system would be needed, which is more complicated to set up.

Did any of that make sense? I think I'm too tired to structure sentences properly.

[Herms]

Figured I'd revive this thread, since this topic seems to be coming up a bit as of late. So two main questions:

1.) What is the current status of the Daizenshuu EX wiki project? Is any progress being made to bring this to fruition?

2.) What possibilities are there to improve the current DB wikia? Is there any way we could appeal to its administrators to enforce stricter standards to ensure that all articles are written in a grammatical and coherent style, and prevent people from posting random speculation and complete BS? Or if that won't work, are there some administrators for Wikia in general we could ask to step in and fix things? Because as-is the DB wikia is not a helpful or reliable reference source for any sort of DB fan.

[Sprite Satan]

2.) What possibilities are there to improve the current DB wikia? Is there any way we could appeal to its administrators to enforce stricter standards to ensure that all articles are written in a grammatical and coherent style, and prevent people from posting random speculation and complete BS? Or if that won't work, are there some administrators for Wikia in general we could ask to step in and fix things? Because as-is the DB wikia is not a helpful or reliable reference source for any sort of DB fan.

2a.) None

2b.) No

2c.) No

I'm so helpful. Ok, let me put in some details here.

The administration of the DB wikia are satisfied with the wikia as it is. It is very popular, full of articles and its terminology and half-facts enjoy widespread adoption amongst a huge number of Dragon Balls, far more than the number who post here. The administration of the DB wikia actively fight change to the current structure in all its forms. This is their vision in action. When I was 13-14 or so, it might have been my vision too.

Meanwhile, Wikia, the company itself, will have no interest in this. It's a for-profit organization who have merely gifted a subdomain to the DB wikia folk and earn ad-revenue from all the banners there. It would have been like asking Yahoo! to step in back in '98 because a Geocities site claimed DBAF was real and had a page about how Bardock was his favourite character due to being a brilliant scientist.

You can create another wikia about, say, the Dragon World, or "Works of Akira Toriyama" or something like that which would cover Dragon Ball and rectify things from there. But why bother? The wikia infrastructure, as far as wikis go, is pretty dire, it's plastered with banners and the only advantage is you don't have to host it. But for the type of hits this sort of project would get 90% of the time, I could attach a URL onto my current webspace and do it for 10 bucks a year, for the cost of the URL. In fact, the Yamucha Densetsu (and about six other non-DB sites) is just a sub-directory of the Dragonjiten, which I pretty much abandoned when it seemed like the Daizex wiki was inevitable.

I know a wee bit about wikis and wiki-culture in general, so any questions then throw them at me.

[Herms]

This is their vision in action. When I was 13-14 or so, it might have been my vision too.

So how old are the administrators then? And what are they like? I'd assume they're all Funi dub fans, and I can at least understand them wanting to use the dub names and cite dub lines to support claims, but I can't imagine anyone over 14 being satisfied with the wikia's amount of misinformation and crappy writing. Do they not realize how much of this stuff is simply inaccurate, or do they know it's crappy but just not care because it'd be too much trouble to fix it, and the kids wouldn't care either way?

Anyway, thanks for the post. It's very informative, though also disheartening.

[Sprite Satan]

So how old are the administrators then? And what are they like? I'd assume they're all Funi dub fans, and I can at least understand them wanting to use the dub names and cite dub lines to support claims, but I can't imagine anyone over 14 being satisfied with the wikia's amount of misinformation and crappy writing. Do they not realize how much of this stuff is simply inaccurate, or do they know it's crappy but just not care because it'd be too much trouble to fix it, and the kids wouldn't care either way?

Anyway, thanks for the post. It's very informative, though also disheartening.

I don't know the administrators personally, I am not a member of the site, but their ages are between 17 and 25. They do appear to be dub fans. The crappy writing is generally... Erm, well, how do I say this, for the most part the writing on the wikia is consistent with their own writing.

This is going to get a little long because I have a great interest in the how and why of maintaining wikis, forums and websites in general. I wouldn't post it normally, but hey, maybe it can help with some of the organisation behind this potential wiki or anyone else thinking of making a site.

Do they not realize how much of this stuff is simply inaccurate?

No, because they (being the majority of users and administrators) don't want to realise it. I cannot overstate the potential for people to overstate or push their own theories or interpretations. Over a decade ago, I would have accepted "Planet Trade Organisation" despite no evidence, because I liked to label and organise things. I stuck with "Earth Special Forces" for years after even the dub stopped using it because I wanted to label these guys. It's a combination of projection and self-delusion.

We all know about these types of fans, for many things including Dragon Ball. They just happen to run a wiki rather than the type of sites that reached their peak in the '90's. The ones with the "Power Levels", the same animation cel galleries as everyone else, the overdone layouts and all the rest. This is just the new generation of it. If you saw this stuff on Sprite Her-cule's Yam Cha Fan Shrine (now with full episodes!) back in 1997, you wouldn't have expected much better.

Do they know it's crappy but just not care because it'd be too much trouble to fix it, and the kids wouldn't care either way?

For a lot of it, they don't care. Maybe it's a page they're not interested in or know much about. Maybe their best friend edited it and they don't need to cause any drama with them by changing it. Maybe they even have a crush on a editor or an editor is their girlfriend. And, as you say, it just takes too much time.

Wikis, and a lot of websites run by groups of people, tend to become "political" in what is done and what is ignored. This is the reason I prefer "closed" wikis. The other thing is, with so many users, people hope someone else will make the changes. Perhaps someone else will come along who is better qualified, who knows more or who genuinely likes to do it while the administrator has to drag themselves to do it. This is a real-life sociological condition that applies just as well here. It's why some threads with basic questions never get answered, because we all assume someone else will do it easily.

The other thing is, and I think the wiki aspect confuses this, is that in the end, it is THEIR site, just as much as Kanzentai is yours, the Densetsu is mine and so on. It might be free hosted, but that doesn't make it any different to those running it. And a lot of people are obviously going to be naturally defensive about their own site, especially if they can be considered immature.

[Tamagon]

I got a suggestion, can there be like a listing of alternate names? Take a look at the Ox-King article of Dragon Ball Wiki: http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Ox-King

There's a section to the right that lists his alternate names. Is there going to be something like that on this wiki? We can still call him "Gyumao" throughout the article, but we can list his dub names for reference.

[B]

EX has stated he'd rather just ignore foreign dub terms altogether, whether they be FUNi terms or AB Groupe termsbor whatever.

But, I doubt he's against discussion. If we've got good enough reason to include such information, he'd be willing to compromise. I think.

[Amigo Ten]

There should at least be list of alternative names, even if that's the only time they're ever used. The more information the better.

[VegettoEX]

EX has stated he'd rather just ignore foreign dub terms altogether, whether they be FUNi terms or AB Groupe termsbor whatever.

But, I doubt he's against discussion. If we've got good enough reason to include such information, he'd be willing to compromise. I think.

I don't ever recall flat-out saying "NUH UH YOU AIN'T INCLUDING THEM"... but rather, FUNimation-exclusive name changes get absolutely no importance of precedence over some other random country's name change. They're bits of superfluous information that are hardly that relevant to what the overall goal of this is going to be. Neat little things to add in a sidebar, sure, but that's about it.