"FUNimation thinks its audience is stupid" - Wait, what?

[Rory]

When it comes to the whole, "9 year old born every day" quote, it seems like one of those things that sounds a lot worse when taken out of context. I read the little report where he said it and it seemed like he was trying to say that the sales of Season 1 indicate that there are still a lot of kids who love DBZ. I don't see how you can get, "there are dumbasses who buy this every day" from that.

As much as despise FUNimation's treatment of the series in many ways, I have to agree with jjgp1112 here, I really think people got all rilled up over this statement, taking it way out of context.

[desirecampbell]

When it comes to the whole, "9 year old born every day" quote, it seems like one of those things that sounds a lot worse when taken out of context. I read the little report where he said it and it seemed like he was trying to say that the sales of Season 1 indicate that there are still a lot of kids who love DBZ. I don't see how you can get, "there are dumbasses who buy this every day" from that.

It's a play on the PT Barnum quote. No one says anything close to that without meaning, "these people are idiots".


Re: Cartoon Network influencing changes: nothing has ever suggested that CN had any input (or interest) in the changes. Saban, the original distributors, did force a lot of censorship - but they haven't been in the picture since 1999 (correct me if I'm off there), all the other changes - character, plot, marketing - are all Funi.

[jjgp1112]

Well, in that case, how do you know he wasn't trying to do a positive flip of that phrase?

[B]

Well, in that case, how do you know he wasn't trying to do a positive flip of that phrase?

Why would you take a generally negative quote and try to spin it? Why not just... say something positive?

I don't want to go in circles and get off topic, but that seems like mental gymnastics.

[jjgp1112]

For the record, here's the original quote just so everyone's clear:

"A ways to rejuvinate the brand with a young audience and introduce them to the greatest action adventure anime ever! There's a nine-year-old born every day."

Yeah, that definitely sounds like he's trying to demean the audience.

It seemed like whoever originally took that post as an insult threw a fit about it and just talked about the "nine year old born every day" part and thus everyone else who cites it probably doesn't even know the full quote.

[desirecampbell]

"A ways to rejuvinate the brand with a young audience and introduce them to the greatest action adventure anime ever (is to crop the image and call it "the way it's meant to be seen", despite that being a complete lie, because the only audience for this is kids and kids are stupid. And) there's a nine-year-old born every day."

He's talking about why mangling the season sets and lying in the adverts was a good idea. He didn't say "it was a bad idea, it was dishonest and we didn't mean to treat you like morons". He said treating the audience like morons was a great idea.

You're really trying to make Funi sound good in this. And you're really not doing well.

[jjgp1112]

I'm sorry, but I personally just don't see it. The first time I read the "9 year old born everyday" quote, I decided to look it up to see if there was some sort of video, and then when I saw the link of the report, I saw the whole quote and just thought, "Wait, that actually isn't bad."

I'm going to have to agree with B and say that they were careless, but never outright "EVIL!!!11!!!" company sitting in their cubicles making jokes every day about how dumb the fans are like some people seem to believe.

[desirecampbell]

I'm sorry, but I personally just don't see it. The first time I read the "9 year old born everyday" quote, I decided to look it up to see if there was some sort of video, and then when I saw the link of the report, I saw the whole quote and just thought, "Wait, that actually isn't bad."
I'm going to have to agree with B and say that they were careless, but never outright "EVIL!!!11!!!" Like some people seem to believe.

What about the season sets was good? What about the cropping, the piss-poor "re-mastering", the outright lies in the adverts was done because they thought the audience was "smart"? Exactly what did they do to prove they didn't think we were morons.?

[OutlawTorn]

You're really trying to make Funi sound good in this. And you're really not doing well.

But you're trying to make FUNimation sound really bad. Why does the phrase "pot meet kettle" come to mind?

I don't really think you'd have too much trouble finding dubbies who aren't ecstatic about the presentation of the DBZ season sets, I know that I only dealt with it because I thought it was the only way to get DBZ on DVD without spending outrageous prices for out of print singles.

But, of course they're going to be shilling their own product like it's going out of style, it's called marketing. They are a business, so why would they say anything which might make people not buy their product? You don't hear actors badmouthing a movie they have made and are making the promotional rounds, even if they may think it's a heap of garbage so, by that logic, does it mean all of the actors promoting their films think their audience is stupid? What would be stupid is for them to put their jobs at risk by saying something which could insult their producers.

I could conclude that the spin of "the way it was meant to be seen" was directed to the content as opposed to the aspect ratio, given that the season sets were the first North American release of the series completely uncut (albeit not uncropped) and in its entirety. Considering how FUNimation is a division of a larger company, Gen Fukunaga can't exactly say anything which could make his bosses look bad and come out unscathed.

[jjgp1112]

I'm sorry, but I personally just don't see it. The first time I read the "9 year old born everyday" quote, I decided to look it up to see if there was some sort of video, and then when I saw the link of the report, I saw the whole quote and just thought, "Wait, that actually isn't bad."
I'm going to have to agree with B and say that they were careless, but never outright "EVIL!!!11!!!" Like some people seem to believe.

What about the season sets was good? What about the cropping, the piss-poor "re-mastering", the outright lies in the adverts was done because they thought the audience was "smart"? Exactly what did they do to prove they didn't think we were morons.?

As OutLaw Torn said, Funi fucked up, but because they had already made the sets, they HAD to make it sound good so they could actually make a profit on it instead of just flushing away money. FUNimation themselves would be morons for saying, "Don't buy this set, you guys!" It's still a business, and a business's top priority is to make money.

[the_abberration]

I could conclude that the spin of "the way it was meant to be seen" was directed to the content as opposed to the aspect ratio, given that the season sets were the first North American release of the series completely uncut (albeit not uncropped) and in its entirety. Considering how FUNimation is a division of a larger company, Gen Fukunaga can't exactly say anything which could make his bosses look bad and come out unscathed.

However considering the UUE's that came out prior to the Season Sets, were uncut and had the 4:3 aspect ratio for the first two seasons, and since the rest of the series was already out uncut on DVD, there was no legitimate reason to stop them in lieu of the Season Sets. Basically, they forced anyone who had already bought the UUE's to double dip (if they wanted to get the first two seasons uncut) by lying and saying this is the series the way we always wanted to see it. Actually, if the had of continued the UUE's that statement would have been closer to the truth (aside from the DBOX).

Also, in another instance of FUNi making a call based on their personal opinion vs what the fans really want. I especially love the lie in the first sentence.

FUNimation Entertainment is known for releasing the titles we license in their original, uncut form, as their creators intended. However, after viewing the unedited as well as the Japanese broadcast edit of the series Dance in the Vampire Bund, we have determined the series contains controversial elements which, when taken out of context, could be objectionable to some audiences.

With this in mind and with approval of the licensor, we will edit select scenes from the series in streaming and home entertainment release. These are scenes which are inappropriate for U.S. viewing and are not essential to the storyline.

Dance in the Vampire Bund is a complex and dark drama cited by press and fans as one of the best anime series out of Japan this season. Its strong story is what brought the series to our attention and why we are bringing it to the U.S.

However in their defense, I could accept it if FUNi made the call to make changes to DBZ as an attempt to avoid another Optimus Prime incident. If anything, that fiasco shows why some children don't need to watch cartoons.

[B]

That doesn't count; DB is "censored," if you wish to call straightforward sexual related talk being dumbed down or outright changed as that, because they can't be assed to fix their shit dub. They're watching their back with Bund.

The only lie about Bund is their description of the series. It's actually quite awful.

[desirecampbell]

But, of course they're going to be shilling their own product like it's going out of style, it's called marketing. They are a business, so why would they say anything which might make people not buy their product? You don't hear actors badmouthing a movie they have made and are making the promotional rounds, even if they may think it's a heap of garbage so, by that logic, does it mean all of the actors promoting their films think their audience is stupid? What would be stupid is for them to put their jobs at risk by saying something which could insult their producers.

Funi hires someone who will keep telling the lies they want - thus Funi isn't treating us like idiots? We're not talking about VAs or low-level PR guys, we're talking about FUNi as a whole. Based on the decisions made related to Dragon Ball, do they think we're idiots?

You as much as say that the season sets were garbage. FUNi put out these sets under absolutely zero pressure from outside forces. These sets were garbage, and we were lied to. Cropping, remastering, fake grain. You don't lie to people you think are smart.

I could conclude that the spin of "the way it was meant to be seen" was directed to the content as opposed to the aspect ratio, given that the season sets were the first North American release of the series completely uncut (albeit not uncropped) and in its entirety. Considering how FUNimation is a division of a larger company, Gen Fukunaga can't exactly say anything which could make his bosses look bad and come out unscathed.

What? What the hell does "the content" mean? You mean the anime itself, uncensored and in English? We had that with the UUEs. The UUEs that FUNi stopped putting out so that they could put out the Season Sets.

As OutLaw Torn said, Funi fucked up, but because they had already made the sets, they HAD to make it sound good so they could actually make a profit on it instead of just flushing away money. FUNimation themselves would be morons for saying, "Don't buy this set, you guys!" It's still a business, and a business's top priority is to make money.

The had the UUEs before the season sets. The stopped a decent release for a sub-par release. They didn't have to do anything. They already had sets, the UUEs - they made the decision to stop them and produce new sets. They made the decision to produce ads that added artificial grain to make their remastering look better. They made the decision to say the cropping was adding "more image". They made the decision to promote these changes as "the way it was meant to be seen". They made the decision to lie to us. FUNi isn't forced to do anything, Toei didn't call them and say "You guys need to stop these half-decent UUEs and release poorly-remastered, cropped sets, oh, and lie as much as possible to the audience".

[jjgp1112]

The thing is though, we still have absolutely no idea if there was some sort of underlying reason why FUNi suddenly canceled the UUEs. Judging from my other Funi-released products from 2006, around the time they were canceled, they were still advertising the shit out of the ones that would eventually be cancelled and the original boxset they were advertising was advertised as a compilation of the UUE releases. There had to be something up that they just didn't care to tell us. You especially have to consider the abruptness.

[desirecampbell]

The thing is though, we still have absolutely no idea if there was some sort of underlying reason why FUNi suddenly canceled the UUEs. Judging from my other Funi-released products from 2006, around the time they were canceled, they were still advertising the shit out of the ones that would eventually be cancelled and the original boxset they were advertising was advertised as a compilation of the UUE releases. There had to be something up that they just didn't care to tell us. You especially have to consider the abruptness.

They didn't care to tell us... because they think we're too smart? I doubt that.

And ignore the reasoning for the Season Sets, the adverts contained outright lies. What about the lies? You keep ignoring the lies.

[Kendamu]

I'm sorry, but I personally just don't see it. The first time I read the "9 year old born everyday" quote, I decided to look it up to see if there was some sort of video, and then when I saw the link of the report, I saw the whole quote and just thought, "Wait, that actually isn't bad."

I'm going to have to agree with B and say that they were careless, but never outright "EVIL!!!11!!!" company sitting in their cubicles making jokes every day about how dumb the fans are like some people seem to believe.

I love how you waited until FUNi started treating Dragonball with respect and giving fans what they want before you argued this point.

[jjgp1112]

Considering the fact there are PLENTY of fans that seem to agree that it looks great judging just from forums and youtube comments, they knew that "meant to be seen" was subjective. Yes, it was deceptive to add grain to that Goku and Gohan riding the Nimbus thing, and that was bad. BUT, they cropped the footage because they needed a cheap way to hide film damage, so of course, they HAD to come up with some way to spin everything to make it sound good, BECAUSE THEY'RE ADVERTISING A PRODUCT. Just like when a movie gets horrible reviews, the advertisers only highlight the few good reviews. You or me or anybody who knows about the Dragon Box will probably think the Season sets are horrible, but the average Joe who DOESN'T know about the Dragon Boxes will probably think it looks good and FUNi advertised these knowing they were going for casual fans. And hell, I myself thought it looked leagues better than the singles, which were the only American releases prior to the Season sets. Of course, that's another discussion.

And not only that, but did anyone else also find it peculiar how all of the Z singles were discontinued with the release of the Season sets, while all of the GT singles are still available? Perhaps there was some sort of oddity with the prior Z singles.

I'm sorry, but I personally just don't see it. The first time I read the "9 year old born everyday" quote, I decided to look it up to see if there was some sort of video, and then when I saw the link of the report, I saw the whole quote and just thought, "Wait, that actually isn't bad."

I'm going to have to agree with B and say that they were careless, but never outright "EVIL!!!11!!!" company sitting in their cubicles making jokes every day about how dumb the fans are like some people seem to believe.

I love how you waited until FUNi started treating Dragonball with respect and giving fans what they want before you argued this point.

I've thought this for a while, thank you very much. Stop trying every chance you get to make me look like an idiot and/or hypocrite based on baseless assumptions.

[the_abberration]

That doesn't count; DB is "censored," if you wish to call straightforward sexual related talk being dumbed down or outright changed as that, because they can't be assed to fix their shit dub. Their watching their back with Bund.

The only lie about Bund is their description of the series. It's actually quite awful.

First of all B, what FUNi is doing to Bund is called CENSORSHIP. They are editing scenes as well. FUNi has a habit of "revisioning" shows to use their terminology.

So when they said: FUNimation Entertainment is known for releasing the titles we license in their original, uncut form, as their creators intended, is that a true statement regarding the treatment of the DB series? Well yes it is....after the third, fourth, or fifth time perhaps.

Secondly, I am using this as an example, mainly because it affects the DVD's. With this in mind and with approval of the licensor, we will edit select scenes from the series in streaming and home entertainment release. Considering the hassle they went through with DBZ, you would think they learned their lesson..But no
! I as the consumer should have the choice to buy a show unedited...Not be forced to go the route of fansubs (which hurts the industry) to see a show the way it was meant to be seen. In a way it's DBZ all over again (at least to fans of that show)

I am trying to be civil here, but it really kills me when people ask for others to explain and/or support their opinion of a situation, then cry foul when they provide sufficient evidence to back up their claims. And I'm not talking about myself. Other posters have provided reasonable arguments as to why and how FUNi thought it's audience was stupid, but it seems some still push past all of it because they refuse to accept the facts.

If anything, FUNi proved that point when they stop production of the UUE's to make the Season Sets. And on top of it, had the audacity to say they did it for the sake of the fans. If anyone here can give me a logical and reasonable reason for that decision, I will be the first one to hear that opinion with fairness and unbiassedly.

[Adamant]

Considering the fact there are PLENTY of fans that seem to agree that it looks great judging just from forums and youtube comments, they knew that "meant to be seen" was subjective.

Those fans have a "magically make everything look great" button on their DVD remote, also known as the "zoom button", so there's still no reason to crop the series just because there are idiots who don't want to watch 4:3 video out there.

[Innagadadavida]

The act of making it seem like an American cartoon is itself insulting to the intelligence of the viewer, saying that American children can't handle foreign entertainment unless it relates to what they already are used to. It's calling us uncultured.

American children can't handle foreign media. Americans are treated as though they are stupid and uncultured by the mass media and as a result of, we are. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy. It's why anime is so niche. It's why NBC created their own version of The Office instead of just airing the BBC version.

I believe that if FUNimation hadn't treated the show the way they did, it would have never reached the enormous levels of popularity it did in our dimension. However, that's not to say that they made all the right moves either. Among all the bullshit and unnecessary script changes there were some smart business decisions. I believe some of their choices made the show more palatable for American children and contributed immensely to the success of the show.

Does that make it right? No it does not. FUNimation absolutely disgraced the original version and dropped a big steaming turd on any artistic integrity the show had to begin with. But they're making amends for it now; they're giving us the Dragon Box. A situation I can not see occurring if the show had not achieved the incredible success it did in it's heyday.

Now I may be going a little off topic here, but I have a question. Does enjoying The Office (US) mean that one is uncultured? Is the creation of The Office (US) a direct insult to our intelligence?