Episode #0212 (14 March 2010)

[desirecampbell]

Does anyone else see B's post just before mine? I can't see it at all.

[Metalwario64]

Does anyone else see B's post just before mine? I can't see it at all.

Not me; it seems to be a glitch that occurs often when deleting posts. It happens to me all the time, where it still shows that I am the most recent poster, even though I deleted my post. It also gives me an error after deleting the post when the glitch occurs...

[B]

Wierd, it's gone. I didn't delete it... And I don't think it was hostile or rule-breaking in any way...

I pointed out to Inna that his claim of Majin Buu having an attitude problem was a bit unfounded.

[desirecampbell]

It hasn't been deleted, you can see it in B's post list, and if you play with the display parameters.

[Majin Buu]

The reason I use the term "elitist" is because this person believes his version is so much better that he'd rather not associate with those who don't. That kind of behavior really gets under my skin. It has nothing to do with which version is better. It's all about attitude.

You've grossly misinterpreted my viewpoint. Yes, I do believe my preferred version is better, I'll gladly admit that, but I never said anything that implied that I refuse to associate with those that like the dub. I even said that the club members sound like good, fun people. The fact of the matter is that I can't enjoy being a part of this club because they primarily focus on a version of the show that I don't like, and everything that goes with that version. Why should I stick around when during most, if not every discussion I'll want to say something like "that's not what he actually said in the original Japanese version", or "this scene was so much better in the original Japanese version", or "his voice is much more smooth natural sounding in the original Japanese version", or "the dub rewrote his character, that's not what he's like in the original Japanese version". Why should I stick around when I'm just going to groan and wince and wish I was watching the original Japanese version whenever they watch the dub? Why should I stick around when everyone around me is giving Bruce Falconer endless praise and I'm the only one that wants to say "Falconer is mediocre at best, Shunsuke Kikuchi mops the floor with him"?

As for introducing them to the Japanese version. People are usually set in their ways about which version they prefer. This forum is proof of that. Call me pessimistic if you will, but I'm doubtful that a hardcore dub fan would end up liking the Japanese version after giving it a chance. I'm sure it has happened before (again, look at this forum), but not often. I don't expect showing them the original Japanese version would cause them to convert to my way of thinking.

It sounds like a nice club for dub fans. But as a fan of the Japanese version that detests the dub, it's not my thing. Like I said, we're Dragon Ball fans, but we're not fans of the same Dragon Ball.

[Gaffer Tape]

Whoo. Hope this isn't grievous necroposting, but this thread has been contributed to fairly recently, and something I had said a while back indirectly sparked what's most recently happened in this thread. I've just gotten a bit behind on my podcast listening, so I'd stayed away from this forum for a while. But I do have things to add to this discussion, and this is second on the thread list, so I hope that justifies it.

In a way, I suppose what Majin Buu and I have said could be considered "elitist." I just probably would not have that much fun there, I'm sad to admit. It is a different version of the show. I wouldn't enjoy watching it. I wouldn't enjoy talking about it. The version of the show I follow and extensively know is radically different from the version they'd be analyzing. I wouldn't be able to participate in a discussion without wanting to bring up my own knowledge, which is rooted in my version of the show. And I'm sure that wouldn't be appreciated by them, and I likewise wouldn't that. And it would just devolve into dub vs. sub, and no one would be happy. That's why I had to stop DB in real life because most of my friends were dub fans, and we just couldn't have a civil discussion about it (well, that was ten years ago when we were fourteen... maybe we're more mature now, I dunno). But maybe that's my "elitism" coming through that I wouldn't just be able to sit there and have a good time. But in a lot of ways, it would be akin to a Macross fan trying to fit in in a Robotech club. It just wouldn't work. They're fans of different things. That certainly doesn't mean that I or Majin Buu or Mike or any other Japanese fan doesn't or can't appreciate and applaud what she does (which is awesome... starting a DB club is awesome). I brought up my point not to criticize her but just because it reminded me that I'm very much in the minority in the fandom, and it's hard to find a place for someone like me, and sometimes that's a bit saddening.

Well, in all honesty Mike, have you ever sat down and really listened to any of the Faulconer CD's? Becuase I'll be honest and upfront with you, I actually bought the LEGEND OF DRAGONWORLD set, the Dragonball & Dragonball Z Daizenshuu set, and the Dragonball Z BGM Collection (LOTS OF MONEY GONE RIGHT THERE), so I could give Kikuchi's music a chance. And that's just something I don't see on Daizenshuu EX The Podcast, and it really saddens me to no end. Which is why I would love a podcast episode like the one I mentioned above.

To add. I'm sure Mike has listened to enough of the dub music to form the opinion of it that he has (correct me if I'm wrong Mike), so I'm sure he has given it enough of "a chance".

Possibly. However, I find that listening to music in the show and on a soundtrack are rather different. For example, in order to watch the Japanese version of DBZ , I actually listened to the CD's first, since I couldn't enjoy the music as it played in the show, at least at first.

I don't know why I didn't notice this when I was reading this thread originally, but this struck me as an interesting way of doing things. I agree that I find listening to the music in the show and on a soundtrack two different things, but I think of it in the opposite way that you do. For BGM, the show is its natural environment. That's what it's written for, that's what it's expected to be used in conjunction with. Because of that, I feel it should be judged based on those merits, and that someone who has listened to it in the show has given it a fair chance on those merits. Don't get me wrong. I own quite a few soundtrack CDs, but that's because the music IN ITS ELEMENT grabbed me enough that I desired to listen to it OUTSIDE ITS ELEMENT. Sure there are exceptions, and there are a lot of pieces of background music that you really learn to appreciate only after you hear it totally clean. But I don't believe it's a necessary pre-requisite before watching the show itself. That seems a bit backwards to me.

[saiyanqueen08]

Umm we watch the Orange Boxes because that's what I have, in English dub, with original on Toonami music, and NO we do not have people hootin' and hollerin' about what we watch it in because we love DBZ. If a person doesn't want to be in the club because I, as the President, chooses how we watch it then they can just F%$& Right Off. I don't care ^_^. They are missing out on a great, fun club that talks about something they are interested in. I think it just means one less a$$hole in the group

Now any other questions, and sorry for the late response summer has been hectic.

[ShadowDude112]

Now any other questions, and sorry for the late response summer has been hectic.

*Raises hand* Two questions. Would we be able to talk about the Japanese version though? I forget most of that podcast episode and this thread had to many long posts. Second question, are you going to be showing Kai to the group or not?

[Gaffer Tape]

Umm we watch the Orange Boxes because that's what I have, in English dub, with original on Toonami music, and NO we do not have people hootin' and hollerin' about what we watch it in because we love DBZ. If a person doesn't want to be in the club because I, as the President, chooses how we watch it then they can just F%$& Right Off. I don't care ^_^. They are missing out on a great, fun club that talks about something they are interested in. I think it just means one less a$$hole in the group

Hmm, that seemed like an altogether unnecessarily volatile response, but, eh, whatever. I'm still glad for your club's success.

[saiyanqueen08]

We compare Japaneses to English but that is all. And No we do not watch Kai, we just feel that though it is shorter and closer to the Manga we prefer the original Funimation voice actors to the Kai ones.

[Herms]

And No we do not watch Kia, we just feel that though it is shorter and closer to the Manga we prefer the original Funimation voice actors to the Kia ones.

You all feel the same way when it comes to Z versus Kai? I find that difficult to believe.

[saiyanqueen08]

Actually yes we ALL view it that way, we had a meeting over the upcoming semester and what we will be accomplishing in the club. And every member avidly was against showing Kia unless we used it as a discussion tool over voice actor choosing.

[ShadowDude112]

Actually yes we ALL view it that way, we had a meeting over the upcoming semester and what we will be accomplishing in the club. And every member avidly was against showing Kai unless we used it as a discussion tool over voice actor choosing.

I agree with Herms. Even if you have that proof I just can't believe that.

[Majin Buu]

Umm we watch the Orange Boxes because that's what I have, in English dub, with original on Toonami music, and NO we do not have people hootin' and hollerin' about what we watch it in because we love DBZ. If a person doesn't want to be in the club because I, as the President, chooses how we watch it then they can just F%$& Right Off. I don't care ^_^. They are missing out on a great, fun club that talks about something they are interested in. I think it just means one less a$$hole in the group

Your response doesn't make you sound very inviting to someone that isn't a dub fan. What if someone like me were to show up and state: "I'm *blank*, I like the original Japanese version and don't like the dub. I am very critical of the dub and am likely to voice my criticisms of it at some point. My perspective of the show will be coming from the original Japanese version, which I believe is a vastly different and better show than the dub." Would your response be just as nasty as your response above?

[Metalwario64]

Umm we watch the Orange Boxes because that's what I have

I certainly hope you have the cash to pay for everyone's eye doctor bills when you're through.

[Innagadadavida]

This is why we can't have nice things. This is why there's such a negative association with the Daizenshuu EX message boards.

[VegettoEX]

This is why we can't have nice things. This is why there's such a negative association with the Daizenshuu EX message boards.

Oh, please. There's preconceptions on all ends of the spectrum. It's a popular site with a popular forum. It's impossible to please everyone and have a 100%-percent utopian, running-around-with-flowers, everyone-on-the-outside-loves-us reality. We can only do the best we can.

I certainly hope you have the cash to pay for everyone's eye doctor bills when you're through.

Knock if off.

I'm actually flabbergasted at saiyanqueen08's response to the situation and really like the level-headed response from Majin Buu. I can tell you flat-out that one of the reasons that I ran for and became president of my anime club back in college was because of the "prior regime" and their insistence on never holding a vote for what to watch, and forcing certain series on the club... and particularly various series that just don't go well in a group setting.

"One less asshole" in the group that prefers the original Japanese version? Really? Really...? This is *not* the club persona that you set forth in the interview, and *not* a club we would encourage people to check out. It's got nothing to do with language preference at that point -- it's all about attitude of the president, no less.

[Metalwario64]

I certainly hope you have the cash to pay for everyone's eye doctor bills when you're through.

Knock if off.

Shit!... Sorry.

This is why we can't have nice things. This is why there's such a negative association with the Daizenshuu EX message boards.

This wasn't in response to my above post was it? If so, it was just a joke.

[Innagadadavida]

This is why we can't have nice things. This is why there's such a negative association with the Daizenshuu EX message boards.

Oh, please. There's preconceptions on all ends of the spectrum. It's a popular site with a popular forum. It's impossible to please everyone and have a 100%-percent utopian, running-around-with-flowers, everyone-on-the-outside-loves-us reality. We can only do the best we can.

I'm talking about the perception that the forum is full of a bunch of elitists who will eat you alive if you maintain a differing opinion on this or that. An example of why people might think that is Metalwario64's response. Even if it was a joke. It was still made at the expense of her preference.

I'm actually flabbergasted at saiyanqueen08's response to the situation and really like the level-headed response from Majin Buu. I can tell you flat-out that one of the reasons that I ran for and became president of my anime club back in college was because of the "prior regime" and their insistence on never holding a vote for what to watch, and forcing certain series on the club... and particularly various series that just don't go well in a group setting.

"One less asshole" in the group that prefers the original Japanese version? Really? Really...? This is *not* the club persona that you set forth in the interview, and *not* a club we would encourage people to check out. It's got nothing to do with language preference at that point -- it's all about attitude of the president, no less.

"One less asshole" would refer to the person who doesn't want to be in the club because of how Saiyanqueen08 chooses to play the show.

If a person doesn't want to be in the club because I, as the President, chooses how we watch it then they can just F%$& Right Off. I don't care ^_^. They are missing out on a great, fun club that talks about something they are interested in. I think it just means one less a$$hole in the group

One can be a fan of the original version and still hang out with other human beings and watch the fucking dub. If someone should chose not to, that's fine I'm sure... but to sit here and rail on her for not catering to other factions of the fanbase is insufferable. Any normal person might take offense to that. It looks to me like she just wants to hang out and have fun. If somebody else is so caught up in their own version that they chose not to be in a club with those who enjoy something almost exactly the same (in the grand scheme of things), well, I'd say that's just silly. And not at all her or any of her fellow club members' fault.

[Majin Buu]

No one has been railing on her. What happened was that a few people expressed that they would not like to be a part of said club because of its focus on the dub, she got defensive and started calling them assholes and saying they could "fuck right off", and then got called on it. No one is saying she HAS to cater to people that like the Japanese version, just that focusing exclusively on the dub might turn off fans of the Japanese version from wanting to join. And to go off of what Mike said, an attitude like that just reflects poorly on the club in general. What if there was a fan of the Japanese version that COULD possibly look past its focus on the dub and want to join, but was turned off by the president's nasty attitude about the issue?

And by the way, they're not "almost exactly the same" at all. They're both called Dragon Ball and have the same basic plot, but the dub and the Japanese version are different enough that they're almost two different shows. As I've said before, they're not the same Dragon Ball. And based on that, I ask again: Why would I want to join a club that most likely won't even acknowledge, let alone talk about the Dragon Ball that I know and enjoy and would probably become annoyed, if not hostile, if I even brought it up (based on the president's post above)?

You mention that these forums get a bad rap because people are attacked for having differing opinions (liking the dub), but then you turn around and attack those that express a differing opinion about this club, calling them elitists. I hope the irony isn't lost on you.