Daima and its implications for the Battle of the Gods

[JulieYBM]

They should do this and give this form to everyone.

Besides the fact that this form would be absurd, I really hope they keep Ultra Instinct for Goku only. It's really cool to have characters following their own path. And they have already doubled down on this.

Also, why was this set before Super and not after ? There have been some truly odd decisions made with this series.

I think the idea was to make a pretty direct sequel to the Boo saga in themes and lore. Plus, they probably didn't want to mess with what Toyotaro is doing at the later point in the timeline.

I think that having Ultra Instinct as an equalizer for bringing up the other characters to Gokuu's level is a great idea, actually, so I would push for that.

[Basaku]

But something tells me Daima won't be the last time that SSJ4 appears. Toyotaro could combine SSJ4 with Ultra Instinct and make SSJ5 canon. Now that SSJ4 itself is canon, it is possible.

Of course it won't be, it's extremly popular and sells merch. They left themselves a way out but having it be awoken by a Namekian instead of being a demon realm thing AND they even made a point of showing Dende interested in the form lol:


He will do it again in future if Neva is not around

[BernardoCairo]

I think that having Ultra Instinct as an equalizer for bringing up the other characters to Gokuu's level is a great idea, actually, so I would push for that.

The problem with this is that they've already established Ultra Instinct as extremely difficult to achieve (requiring divine training and absurd strength). So much so that they chose to give Vegeta a whole new form instead of sticking with the usual (him chasing after Goku).

Vegeta doesn't know this. Him choosing to use a weaker form against Beerus, who threatens to destroy them all is a plot hole and no amount of dancing around it works.

Maybe he did? Super Saiyajin 3 having problems is nothing new.

I understand both of these points, but why not take the time to address the things that don't line up with Super ? If you're going to make a prequel, it's important it lines up with what's already established after it.

I agree. But if the rumors are correct, we'll see Super being mentioned in the final episode of Daima. I know that won't be enough though...

[ZombieVito]

I think that having Ultra Instinct as an equalizer for bringing up the other characters to Gokuu's level is a great idea, actually, so I would push for that.

The problem with this is that they've already established Ultra Instinct as extremely difficult to achieve (requiring divine training and absurd strength). So much so that they chose to give Vegeta a whole new form instead of sticking with the usual (him chasing after Goku).

Vegeta doesn't know this. Him choosing to use a weaker form against Beerus, who threatens to destroy them all is a plot hole and no amount of dancing around it works.

Maybe he did? Super Saiyajin 3 having problems is nothing new.

I understand both of these points, but why not take the time to address the things that don't line up with Super ? If you're going to make a prequel, it's important it lines up with what's already established after it.

I agree. But if the rumors are correct, we'll see Super being mentioned in the final episode of Daima. I know that won't be enough though...

What rumors?

[Peach]

Will Goku use Super Saiyan 4 again ever? Maybe in combination with God or Ultra Instinct

[ZombieVito]

But something tells me Daima won't be the last time that SSJ4 appears. Toyotaro could combine SSJ4 with Ultra Instinct and make SSJ5 canon. Now that SSJ4 itself is canon, it is possible.

Of course it won't be, it's extremly popular and sells merch. They left themselves a way out but having it be awoken by a Namekian instead of being a demon realm thing AND they even made a point of showing Dende interested in the form lol:


He will do it again in future if Neva is not around

I noticed this as well.

I'm sure Dende will conveniently remember this in the future and unlock the form for Goku.

[BernardoCairo]

What rumors?

Well, some of the people who teased us about Super Saiyajin 4 Goku and Super Saiyajin 3 Vegeta are talking about Daima making some sort of reference to Super in its final episode. Of course, these are just rumors. But even if they are true, I don't expect anything too grand.

[Hulk10]

I'm not yet convined that this Daima form is SSJ4

[Tian]

I'm not yet convined that this Daima form is SSJ4

And I am worried that this redesigned SSJ4 could be the replacement of SSG.

I've been having this feeling that Toriyama came to regret BoG and the subsequent stuff, and decided to overwrite it with Daima. I could be wrong though (and I really hope I am wrong.)

[Vegeta th3 4th]

What rumors?

Well, some of the people who teased us about Super Saiyajin 4 Goku and Super Saiyajin 3 Vegeta are talking about Daima making some sort of reference to Super in its final episode. Of course, these are just rumors. But even if they are true, I don't expect anything too grand.

Considering Daima is set before Battle of Gods, I can see some short scene with Whis watching the events unfold on his staff.

[JulieYBM]

I'm not yet convined that this Daima form is SSJ4

And I am worried that this redesigned SSJ4 could be the replacement of SSG.

I've been having this feeling that Toriyama came to regret BoG and the subsequent stuff, and decided to overwrite it with Daima. I could be wrong though (and I really hope I am wrong.)

Why? Heck, why would any of the partners involved with making the series want that? They went out of their way to bring back Super Saiyan God in the manga and the anime! Heck, they gave it to Vegeta for Movie #20!

[Tian]

Why? Heck, why would any of the partners involved with making the series want that? They went out of their way to bring back Super Saiyan God in the manga and the anime! Heck, they gave it to Vegeta for Movie #20!

I'm aware they have been giving some love to the SSG form in recent years and I'm glad they did so.

But whenever I look at the redesigned SSJ4 and how much it clashes with SSG, I can't help but think "both forms now look similar enough, that they could be exchangeable in Toei's eyes."

I can't believe Nakatsuru forgot that Goku already had a form with those features.

[Cybersai]

I mean if you look at the entirety of Super, nothing from Daima is brought up in it for the obvious reason it didn't exist at the time it was written.

So Goku will never use SSJ4, Vegeta never uses SSJ3....but also none of the characters mention their adventure in the demon realm. You'll never see Goku bring up Glorio or Panzy. You'll never see anyone talk about how they were all turned into kids by Shenron.

If you watch Daima directly after DBZ, and then go to Battle of Gods and Super right after....it feels like all of Daima never happened as if it was a filler arc similar to the Garlic Jr. saga back in DBZ. And that's kind of what it feels like.

[SupremeKai25]

I'm not yet convined that this Daima form is SSJ4

And I am worried that this redesigned SSJ4 could be the replacement of SSG.

I've been having this feeling that Toriyama came to regret BoG and the subsequent stuff, and decided to overwrite it with Daima. I could be wrong though (and I really hope I am wrong.)

Why would Toriyama "regret" Super, which, might I remind everyone, was written by Toriyama himself?

[Tian]

I'm not yet convined that this Daima form is SSJ4

And I am worried that this redesigned SSJ4 could be the replacement of SSG.

I've been having this feeling that Toriyama came to regret BoG and the subsequent stuff, and decided to overwrite it with Daima. I could be wrong though (and I really hope I am wrong.)

Why would Toriyama "regret" Super, which, might I remind everyone, was written by Toriyama himself?

It's not unusual for authors to regret some of their work and whenever they have the chance, they rewrite it.

I am not saying this is 100% the case with Daima but some things from the series seem to suggest this possibility.

[Vegeta th3 4th]

The decision to set Daima before Super was already made before Toriyama joined the project, it was a decision made by Toei for whatever reason. It may have to do with the rights issues revolving around Super at the moment, rather than them not liking their previous work.

[goku the krump dancer]

It's very likely Goku cannot use the form without Neva's magic. I didn't think this was that complicated.

Pretty much, the tamagami’s dont seem to keep the power ups they get from Neva, so why would Goku? Dumb question sure but as of right now before we see episodes 19 and 20, there’s no implication that Goku has permanent access to this form.

[Tian]

The decision to set Daima before Super was already made before Toriyama joined the project, it was a decision made by Toei for whatever reason. It may have to do with the rights issues revolving around Super at the moment, rather than them not liking their previous work.

Oh...

Thanks, it makes a lot of sense now. I guess we can't expect the following arcs of the manga to be adapted until this situation is solved.

Huh, it explains why they are somewhat "frightened" to go beyond the Super series.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

I think the idea was to make a pretty direct sequel to the Boo saga in themes and lore. Plus, they probably didn't want to mess with what Toyotaro is doing at the later point in the timeline.

I understand both of these points, but why not take the time to address the things that don't line up with Super ? If you're going to make a prequel, it's important it lines up with what's already established after it. I guess that could still happen, but I honestly doubt it. If anything, I expect more issues to pop up during these last two episodes.

They have been pretty coy about the series timeline placement just seem to be saying it takes place after Buu arc, so I don't think they are gonna tie anything into DBS and leave it as is, Shin is unfused, Goku has different gi now a new form, Vegeta has access to SS3 which immediately contradicts BoG

From a marketing perspective it also doesn't really make sense to create a whole new series branding if they intend to go back to DBS. When they created DBS they had to brand BoG and RF so hence the retellings for them and we never went back to the Z brand.

[JulieYBM]

Trunks is turning nine in the first episode of Daima, so that places it less than a year after the Majin Buu arc.