"DBZ has no story." HOW?

[Akumaito Beam]

I remember my girlfriend saying: ''Damn, I was so excited at first but this story is so retarded that no-one really dies in there!!
Someone dies, like Krillin, which I cared for, but no, they will resurect him with dragon balls twice..... I was really hoping for him to die then. Who the hell cares about them? There is no damn tension or drama, even Jesus knew that ressurection works only once..... Is there anyone who really died, except for Cell or Freeza???''



EDIT: This is one of the biggest reasons she dislikes Dragon Ball nowadays, she likes Naruto more...

I completely agree with her. Making someone die and then immediately reversing it is a really cheap way to string drama out of your series. I never liked it as a plot device in Dragon Ball from Bora to Boo. I wish rules against reviving the dead would have been noted from the beginning to avoid all of that mess. The only thing that annoys me more is killing off minor insignificant wallpaper characters that aren't important to the plot and then the writers acting like it's really daring and universe changing.

[matt0044]

Toriyama doesn't like be depressing, its more about the moment in Dragon Ball. Either way this thread is terrible, obviously it has a story.

I was address how people outside these forums claim that DBZ has no story. And I want to ask others why they think this.

[BlazingFiddlesticks]

Not implying that you didn't know already, but many cartoons have this same thing, perhaps to keep them relatable to the audience (e.g. Pretty much all the characters in the Simpsons).

But how many of those shows aren't deliberate comedies, actually have continuity, and take place over more than a year?

[Piccolo Daimao]

Not implying that you didn't know already, but many cartoons have this same thing, perhaps to keep them relatable to the audience (e.g. Pretty much all the characters in the Simpsons).

But how many of those shows aren't deliberate comedies, actually have continuity, and take place over more than a year?

I'm trying to think of more examples, but The Simpsons has some kind of relative continuity, albeit fluid. I mean, Maude's death and the rivalry between Bart and Sideshow Bob's pretty consistent, although I guess we're never told the passage of time there.

Whether or not it's a comedy should be irrelevant. Pokemon's not a comedy, and Friends, which is a comedy (although not animated), has its characters age.

[Saimaroimaru]

I remember my girlfriend saying: ''Damn, I was so excited at first but this story is so retarded that no-one really dies in there!!
Someone dies, like Krillin, which I cared for, but no, they will resurect him with dragon balls twice..... I was really hoping for him to die then. Who the hell cares about them? There is no damn tension or drama, even Jesus knew that ressurection works only once..... Is there anyone who really died, except for Cell or Freeza???''



EDIT: This is one of the biggest reasons she dislikes Dragon Ball nowadays, she likes Naruto more...

I completely agree with her. Making someone die and then immediately reversing it is a really cheap way to string drama out of your series. I never liked it as a plot device in Dragon Ball from Bora to Boo. I wish rules against reviving the dead would have been noted from the beginning to avoid all of that mess. The only thing that annoys me more is killing off minor insignificant wallpaper characters that aren't important to the plot and then the writers acting like it's really daring and universe changing.

Just means its bad writing but doesn't mean it doesn't have a story.

[caejones]

Actually, I kinda think the biggest drama fail regarding death in Dragonball is at the end of the Buu saga, when they get to namek and Porunga is conveniently upgraded to be able to revive everyone.
Until that point, we had different restrictions on the two sets: Earth's set can only revive someone once, Namek's can only revive one at a time.

I mean, this is clearly because Toriyama really, really, really wanted to get it over with as quickly as possible, and was admitedly just trying to have fun with it in that arc rather than do anything serious.
IMO, if the Porunga restriction was still in place, someone would have had to have tried to gather the dragonballs on Earth to use the remaining Shehnron wish to resurrect everyone else. Meaning they would have needed one heck of a way to distract Buu for that time (Even Popo took most of the Freeza fight to gather the DBs, and we all know how long that fustercluck was... and unless the second wish was used to resurrect popo or magically gather the dragonballs, anyone else would have had to work to find them.).

Heck, let's say that instead of resurrecting everyone, the second wish was used on Gohan (If only one can be brought back, the strongest is the obvious choice). Someone decides to tell Gohan to get the DBs.
Kid Buu senses Gohan, and... I guess he can sense the dragonballs, because Buu's an Eldrich Abomination like that.
Umm. Never mind. *Goes off to write fanfics*

[Piccolo Daimao]

Heck, let's say that instead of resurrecting everyone, the second wish was used on Gohan (If only one can be brought back, the strongest is the obvious choice). Someone decides to tell Gohan to get the DBs.
Kid Buu senses Gohan, and... I guess he can sense the dragonballs, because Buu's an Eldrich Abomination like that.
Umm. Never mind. *Goes off to write fanfics*

If Kid Boo decides to teleport to Earth or something to kill Gohan, then he'd get licked. Problem solved.

[DBZAOTA482]

Heck, let's say that instead of resurrecting everyone, the second wish was used on Gohan (If only one can be brought back, the strongest is the obvious choice). Someone decides to tell Gohan to get the DBs.
Kid Buu senses Gohan, and... I guess he can sense the dragonballs, because Buu's an Eldrich Abomination like that.
Umm. Never mind. *Goes off to write fanfics*

If Kid Boo decides to teleport to Earth or something to kill Gohan, then he'd get licked. Problem solved.

Is this what you mean? The thing even a Super Saiyan Goku is afraid of, an extremely pissed-off Chichi? I'd feel sorry for Boo.

[Piccolo Daimao]

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2 ... thguns.gif
Is this what you mean? The thing even a Super Saiyan Goku is afraid of, an extremely pissed-off Chichi? I'd feel sorry for Boo.

Chi-Chi tried that once before, got turned into an egg, and was literally stomped.

[DBZAOTA482]

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2 ... thguns.gif
Is this what you mean? The thing even a Super Saiyan Goku is afraid of, an extremely pissed-off Chichi? I'd feel sorry for Boo.

Chi-Chi tried that once before, got turned into an egg, and was literally stomped.

That's why she needs anger management classes.
...And I don't know, she might try to be more cognizant after that obviously futile stunt.

[Piccolo Daimao]

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2 ... thguns.gif
Is this what you mean? The thing even a Super Saiyan Goku is afraid of, an extremely pissed-off Chichi? I'd feel sorry for Boo.

Chi-Chi tried that once before, got turned into an egg, and was literally stomped.

That's why she needs anger management classes.
...And I don't know, she might try to be more cognizant after that obviously futile stunt.

Yeah, then she'd be able to harness the full power of her inner Super-Mama!

[AgitoZ]

So let me get this straight. DB is criticized for bringing back characters from the dead and only killing off minor characters "for reals"? Isn't the aforementioned Naruto guilty of doing all of these things?

[Fin]

I suppose those issues are easier to get over when you're already hooked on a series by the time they become a problem. (That is, assuming Naruto had more tension when it began -- I know absolutely nothing about the series.) Dragon Ball was introduced to most anglophone audiences at the start of the Saiyan arc, when the 'death is cheap' rot had really begun to set in. It's easier to experience the story from the beginning now, but unfortunately Dragon Ball has pretty firmly cemented a poor reputation in the minds of many English-speakers.

[Saimaroimaru]

I suppose those issues are easier to get over when you're already hooked on a series by the time they become a problem. (That is, assuming Naruto had more tension when it began -- I know absolutely nothing about the series.) Dragon Ball was introduced to most anglophone audiences at the start of the Saiyan arc, when the 'death is cheap' rot had really begun to set in. It's easier to experience the story from the beginning now, but unfortunately Dragon Ball has pretty firmly cemented a poor reputation in the minds of many English-speakers.

Well when it came to Naruto, death was permanent and the only way to get brought back was through some forbidden reanimation tech that turned the person into an immortal zombie that got rectified with some for of seal tech or soul removal. Then the author kills off a large portion of the main characters village including a main character only to turn around and have the same villain who caused the deaths to reverse it leaving only the village structures heavily damaged. That made many readers mad who felt the deaths should have been permanent as a teaching tool for the main character.

[Fin]

Ah. How long had the series been running at that point?

[Saimaroimaru]

Toriyama doesn't like be depressing, its more about the moment in Dragon Ball. Either way this thread is terrible, obviously it has a story.

Well, only thing without a story and being book can be only manual for washing machine, so it's also technically impossible for franchise spawning 42 volumes of comic books and 500+ episodes of anime to not having a story. So I too think this topic is rather weird, maybe if the title was rewritten as DBZ has poor story?

But yeah, there are different things I like about this series than solid complicated story.... I like how story of One Piece is done, but on the other side, during the Ace rescue it started to bore me heavily from it's slow overcomplicateness.

*cough*Pokemon*cough*

The plot depends on what medium you watching/reading/playing it through.

Ah. How long had the series been running at that point?

Oh how long ago was the Pein Invasion Arc? Oh lets see.... 2008 so 11 years. Will be 15 years when this years august comes.

[JulieYBM]

So let me get this straight. DB is criticized for bringing back characters from the dead and only killing off minor characters "for reals"? Isn't the aforementioned Naruto guilty of doing all of these things?

Not really. Three major (non-flashback) good guy characters have died so far. Numerous villains have died, as well (whether you'd consider most of them major characters is debatable). This is to say nothing of Naruto's parents, too.


I really don't have an issue with death in either Dragon Ball or Naruto at this point. The Pain arc has a few fake-outs, but over the course of five hundred eighty-seven chapters it's not bad, espicially when death tends to be the cup-and-tea of the series.

[AgitoZ]

Not really. Three major (non-flashback) good guy characters have died so far.

I wouldn't consider all of those major characters.

And if we're counting villains DB really doesn't deserve all the flack.

[Saimaroimaru]

Not really. Three major (non-flashback) good guy characters have died so far.

I wouldn't consider all of those major characters.

And if we're counting villains DB really doesn't deserve all the flack.

Not major? I would say maybe two of them were semi - major and one was major and another fodder but they had very important roles in the story that have had great impact on the overall story interns of the politics and character development of the story.

Seeing as this is a DB site I won't go into much detail but here is the gist of it.

Hayate Gekko(exam proctor, google him): His death allowed the hidden sand and sound attack the hidden leaf, a attack that took the leaf 2 1/2 years to recover from.

Third Hokage: His death showed that even legendary and high ranking characters can die, in fact he faced a fate worse than death. His death led to us seeing some of the behind scene of how the Hokage is selected and led to us meeting Tsuande, the epic Sannin battle, Naruto learning his now signature tech, and Sakura eventually being useful for something.

Asuma: Development of Shikamaru and his team(major characters Shikamaru the most) and depending on the person/made it sad for his lover and child.

Jiraiya: Development for Naruto, showed us some of Second War, background for Pein and his eye techs, and Naruto new teacher, the toad sages. Showed that anyone no matter how close to the title character can die.

Danzo: Okay sort of an good character with misguided intentions but his death helped fill in some hole such as what led up to the Second Hokage's death, Ascension of the third and his relationship with him and filled in what it took to become Hokage. His battle also laid the foundations for some of the most hax techs in the entire series and the new wood jutsu fetish that is going around.

Kishi doesn't kill main characters just to say "look death, love me nowz?". Even though the mass revival was probably to stop himself from going into a direction he didn't want to go with the series.

4-5 were major characters.

Then we get into the long explanation of each villain's death in which I will not go to.

[matt0044]

Anyone have anything else to add?