Dragon Ball Wikidiots

[Folken-sama]

If I'm not missing anything, ten it can't be called an OVA.

I think you don't understand what OVA means...

OVA is for an animation that was specifically created for a video release (Original Video Animation).

"Plan" was specifically created for a video release. Then "Plan" is an OVA and can't be anything else.

That's also why DBZ movies are movies. It's animation specifically created to be shown in movie theaters.
Nobody in his right mind would say that the DBZ movies "aren't movies because they're specifically designed as a complement to a TV series/manga".

Moreover, Toei calls it an OVA.

If it's specifically designed as a compliment to a video game, then it's not an OVA.

You're not getting it.

OVA indicates the way the animation was produced and released. "Intentions", "purpose", "storyline" have nothing to do with it.

TV -> TV series/Specials
Cinema -> movies
Video -> OVA

That's all there is to it.

[jwimz]

IF it is an "Official" OVA then, why hasn't Funimation dubbed and released it yet? If they were going to do it they would've by now, they dubbed and released all of the specials and movies, so why have they forgotten the OVA? Do they even know that this is the DBZ OVA?

I know that Toei released it to video first (and in that sence it is an OVA) but the reason why I don't accept it as an OVA is because it isn't an "Official" addition to the DBZ mythos. In my opinion an OVA is a Direct-to-Video original story or contiuation of an anime's mythos (and I think that is what the majority of people think).

Now this is a pretty weak statement I'm going to make but if Funimation doesn't release it, then it isn't in the DBZ mythos. I know that Funimation isn't the diffinitive authority on DBZ because they just localize it for us, but they have released everything (DB-DBZ-GT- TV Specials and Movies) but not this and that brings me to the conclusion that it isn't (by my definition) an OVA (addition to the DBZ mythos).

[Blitzen]

...eh?

Chances are, the reasons FUNimation haven't put it out is because the animation wasn't sold to them under their current contract (for all TV/Movie based animation, apparently), and they'd have to deal with Bandai aswell because that footage was used on their game system.

[jwimz]

But if it is a Toei approved DBZ OVA (and by this I mean addition to the DBZ mythos), why would they (also Bandai) with hold it? Funimation has tons of money and could easily buy it. It isn't like Toei or Bandai are going to lose money by releasing it here because it would sell well.

[Folken-sama]

IF it is an "Official" OVA then, why hasn't Funimation dubbed and released it yet?

I can't see your point here.

There is no link between an animation being labelled OVA and Funi's erratic releases...

And yes, it's an official OVA, because it was released by Bandai/Toei, and Tôei have no problem acknowledging it on their website. And it's even included in the Dragon Box DVD sets.

If they were going to do it they would've by now, they dubbed and released all of the specials and movies, so why have they forgotten the OVA? Do they even know that this is the DBZ OVA?

This was a poorly-animated, poorly-advertised OVA.

I know that Toei released it to video first (and in that sence it is an OVA) but the reason why I don't accept it as an OVA is because it isn't an "Official" addition to the DBZ mythos.

No. This has nothing to do with it.

An OVA is an animation produced for the video market (which means it's only going to be released on VHS/LD/DVD). That's all.

OVA indicates the way the animation was produced and released. The storyline have nothing to do with it.

In my opinion an OVA is a Direct-to-Video original story or contiuation of an anime's mythos (and I think that is what the majority of people think).

No.
OVA indicates only the way it was produced and the way it was released.

OVA genereally have a higher budget than a TV series (that's not the case here), and have a direct-to-video release. That's all. The storyline, or the duration, has absolutely nothing to do with it.

The DBZ movies are no more "canon" (or as you say, "in the DBZ mythos") than Plan to destroy the Saiyajin, yet they're still movies.

The filler episodes of the series (except those scripted by Toriyama) are no more canon than the movies and the OVA, yet they're still TV episodes.

Now this is a pretty weak statement I'm going to make but if Funimation doesn't release it, then it isn't in the DBZ mythos. I know that Funimation isn't the diffinitive authority on DBZ because they just localize it for us, but they have released everything (DB-DBZ-GT- TV Specials and Movies) but not this and that brings me to the conclusion that it isn't (by my definition) an OVA (addition to the DBZ mythos).

Then, according to you, the manga by Toriyama is an OVA ?

Sorry but no. Use the term "canon" or something else, but OVA really doesn't have the meaning you give it.

[desirecampbell]

But it wasn't released as it's own entity. It was, and still is, a companion for a video game. If it was released by itself it would be an OVA, but it wasn't. It's nothing more than a fancy strategy guide.

[Folken-sama]

But it wasn't released as it's own entity.

Yes it was.

It was, and still is, a companion for a video game.

It serves as an animated walkthrough but it can also be seen as a complete storyline. The people who bought the Dragon Box didn't necessarily have the NES game.

If it was released by itself it would be an OVA, but it wasn't. It's nothing more than a fancy strategy guide.

No.

You don't understand.

An OVA is animation produced for the video market, that's all. Regardless of the storyline or everything else.

"Strategy guide" doesn't exist. There's only 3 major kind of (japanese) animation : TV, Cinema, Video (OVA).

It's an OVA that serves as a strategy guide. That's all.

Anyway, it's not up to you to decide what is "Plan". Toei says it's an OVA, and moreover, it has all the characteristics of an OVA.

So please don't start nitpicking, it won't make you a "über top fan" to continue this way.

The whole "this is not an OVA" and the elitist "crusade" that followed was just based on a factual error. So it's useless to continue, now.

[Mystic Jack]

This topic sure has gone a long way since I saw it last.

[kvon]

This topic sure has gone a long way since I saw it last.

Yeah, transforming the topic to an OVA discussion is not what I had in mind.

Anyways, I would like to know if any of you know any failed attempts of correcting name puns? I just browsed Wiki, and it seems like they got Freeza's, Coola's, and Tullece's name correct (Instead of Frieza, Cooler, and Turles). But what about Broly? How come it's not corrected yet? Is is the same issues with Hercu1e/Mr. Satan?

[jwimz]

Yeah this topic as a whole has been derailed...but at least it is a good discussion! This will probably be my last post in this topic because I don't want to derail it anymore then it already is.

An OVA is animation produced for the video market, that's all. Regardless of the storyline or everything else.

I'm trying to say an OVA is an episodic story released on video not just random animation as it seems like you are saying.

From what I can tell you are argueing that anything, regardless of purpose, released on video is an OVA. So I'll take that and say this. I can watch the intro animation of a game that has not been released yet on the internet. So that animation should be considered an ONA (Original Net Animation - Gundam Seed C.E. 73 Stargazer is an example of ONA) because the original intention of that animation doesn't matter, all that matters it what medium it comes out on first.

[lost in thought]

I OBJECT!

Since it has, to my knowledge, not been mentioned here yet-- I am forced to see Folken's predescribed opinion on another, similar product, and see just how far he's willing to stretch his arguement.

Now if we're going to consider (for the sake of arguement) that "Plan" really is an OVA, what would that make Budokai 3's DVD?

Remember the "i-Guide Official Interactive Game Guide: Dragon Ball Z Budokai 3", that was released before Budokai 3 back in 2004? With your same consideration that "Plan" is supposed to be an OVA, because it was released on DVD before the videogame that shares its story, would this also make the i-Guide an OVA because it was released before its videogame counterpart, despite being marketed as a guide for it?
Also noting that it was said that "Plan" was marketed as a "visual strategy guide".

If you're unfamiliar with the product, click here.

[MajinVejitaXV]

Now if we're going to consider (for the sake of arguement) that "Plan" really is an OVA, what would that make Budokai 3's DVD?

...but that's just footage of the game, no? "Plan" was actually (at its release) new animation made as a strategy guide of sorts, but not recycled from the game since the PlayDia version hadn't be released.

I'm not sure why people wanna fight this. Companies milk things, we know this. Toei used the same animation for two projects. The first was the video, hence it's an OVA. Toei even says so themselves. Why didn't FUNi option it? Probably because it sucks, and NO country has dubbed it to my knowledge.

-Corey

[Duo]

Now if we're going to consider (for the sake of arguement) that "Plan" really is an OVA, what would that make Budokai 3's DVD?

...but that's just footage of the game, no? "Plan" was actually (at its release) new animation made as a strategy guide of sorts, but not recycled from the game since the PlayDia version hadn't be released.

I'm not sure why people wanna fight this. Companies milk things, we know this. Toei used the same animation for two projects. The first was the video, hence it's an OVA. Toei even says so themselves. Why didn't FUNi option it? Probably because it sucks, and NO country has dubbed it to my knowledge.

-Corey

I want it to be dubbed and released solely because it will make people outside this board shut up about the "Lost Movie" once and for all.

Leaving only the Live-Action movie idea to be destoryed, somehow.

[Xyex]

Just going to jump in and out of this real quick...

-the animation was first released on a VHS
-the Playdia didn't exist when the animation was first released.

So, what... you mean you can't make a game for a system that's not been released yet? Wow, someone better go tell them to stop making Sparking! NEO for the Wii, or MGS4 for the PS3!

...but that's just footage of the game, no? "Plan" was actually (at its release) new animation made as a strategy guide of sorts, but not recycled from the game since the PlayDia version hadn't be released.

Uh, well, the fact is, all of the stuff on the B3 visual guide is also new animation since it was released first. If you claim one as one thing then the other must be the same as well since they are both the same thing. Considering the time frame of releases, I say it's obvious that the entire thing was designed to be the Playdia game and the 'correct' path through was released as a guide to the players and that's all there is to it. It's a stratagey guide and nothing more.

Let me ask you this. If a company making a game were to record a play through of that game from start to finish showing you exactly what all needed to be done to complete the game, and then they sold that video prior to the release of the game as a visual guide to the game, would that video be a movie/OVA? No. It's a visual guide. This is the exact same thing.

[Folken-sama]

I'm trying to say an OVA is an episodic story released on video not just random animation as it seems like you are saying.

Show proofs, then.

Because OVA (Original Video Animation) is nothing more than an animation specifically created for an original release on video. That's ALL.

I think you didn't read what I wrote. OVA is just an indication about the production of the animation, because it often has a higher budget than a TV series.

The Burdock Special is"canon" (or a part of the DBZ mythos, as you say), because Toriyama even drew Burdock in his manga, but the Burdock Special is a TV Special, not an OVA...

From what I can tell you are argueing that anything, regardless of purpose, released on video is an OVA.

Yes.

So I'll take that and say this. I can watch the intro animation of a game that has not been released yet on the internet. So that animation should be considered an ONA (Original Net Animation - Gundam Seed C.E. 73 Stargazer is an example of ONA) because the original intention of that animation doesn't matter, all that matters it what medium it comes out on first.

No. Because ONA doesn't exist.

The internet isn't an official, commercial release. Videos on the internet are just a way to advertise the product.

What you fail to understand is that OVA implies a different production budget according to the audience, which is not the same when an animation is directly released on video and when is is shown in the cinemas...

Remember the "i-Guide Official Interactive Game Guide: Dragon Ball Z Budokai 3", that was released before Budokai 3 back in 2004?

Did they produce more than an hour of full animation ?

With your same consideration that "Plan" is supposed to be an OVA

No it is not "supposed". It is an OVA.

would this also make the i-Guide an OVA because it was released before its videogame counterpart, despite being marketed as a guide for it?

You don't understand anything.

When the Plan VHS was released, the Playdia didn't even exist. There was no video game.

Also noting that it was said that "Plan" was marketed as a "visual strategy guide".

No, Plan was marketed as an OVA.


I already explained all of this. You are all mistaken, you base yourself on an erroneous web page that has been updated since you last read it...

So, what... you mean you can't make a game for a system that's not been released yet? Wow, someone better go tell them to stop making Sparking! NEO for the Wii, or MGS4 for the PS3!

Yes, of course, the Playdia is easily comparable to the Wii and PS3

Everyone knows that the Playdia was so big a project that they needed to make a full animation and release it more than one year before.
Everyone knows that the Playdia was so much a big project that it was sold only in Japan, that it was a complete failure and nobody heard about it, that there barely was 20 games released on it...

Everyone knows also that Tôei, being able to put together 45 minutes long movies in only 3 months, were obliged to release the one hour long "Plan" a year and 3 months before so as to make the deadline...

And of course, everyone knows that Sparking Neo and MGS4 were released a year before their consoles...

[Folken-sama]

Uh, well, the fact is, all of the stuff on the B3 visual guide is also new animation since it was released first.

Is there one hour of full animation ?

If you claim one as one thing then the other must be the same as well since they are both the same thing.

You have first to prove that they are the same thing.

Considering the time frame of releases, I say it's obvious that the entire thing was designed to be the Playdia game

Wrong, wrong, wrong.

Plan was released more than a year before the Playdia games, and before the Playdia even existed.

At least, Plan served as a walkthrough for the NES game.

and the 'correct' path through was released as a guide to the players and that's all there is to it. It's a stratagey guide and nothing more.

It's an OVA that served as a strategy guide. As I said, "strategy guide" doesn't exist, there are only 3 kinds of animùation...

Let me ask you this. If a company making a game were to record a play through of that game from start to finish showing you exactly what all needed to be done to complete the game, and then they sold that video prior to the release of the game as a visual guide to the game, would that video be a movie/OVA?

Yes. Because the VHS has nothing to do with the Playdia games, which didn't even exist back then.

No. It's a visual guide. This is the exact same thing.

"Visual guide" is the purpose. OVA is the production status.

[VegettoEX]

Folken-sama, you're incredibly demeaning, sarcastic, and bordering on obnoxiously passive-aggressive with your comments. I'd appreciate it if you'd stop the nonsense immediately. I've already warned you once in this very thread; I'm not going to do it again.

And of course, the same goes for everyone else.

If you can't deal with someone else challenging your thoughts and opinions, this isn't the place for you. Go back to some crawl-space where "Hercule" is obviously his name, Brian Drummond is a bad actor, Pioneer apparently dubbed the series for a while, and Bruce Faulconer writes inspired work on the level of Danny Elfman and John Williams. People are bringing up some really interesting points, and they're just being shot down without the slightest regard for their ingenuity in argumentation. I won't stand for that at all.

Let me also go on record and say that I have absolutely no problem with someone calling it an OVA; for all intents and purposes, it is. On the other hand, as I've explained time and time again, there's so much interesting history behind the animation and its storyline (even if on an artistic level it's such shit), it also does it a dis-service to gloss over it with such a common term.

[Folken-sama]

On the other hand, as I've explained time and time again, there's so much interesting history behind the animation and its storyline (even if on an artistic level it's such shit), it also does it a dis-service to gloss over it with such a common term.

I can't really see what would be "interesting" behind "Plan"...They took the storyline of a game and made an animation with it...

People are bringing up some really interesting points, and they're just being shot down without the slightest regard for their ingenuity in argumentation. I won't stand for that at all.

I hope this isn't adressed to me only...

[VegettoEX]

I can't really see what would be "interesting" behind "Plan"...They took the storyline of a game and made an animation with it...

There's a Famicom game, a two-disc remake on a defunct video game system that degenerated into focusing on games of Japanese idols taking their clothes off, and a two-volume VHS "visual strategy guide" that never saw another release (even on LaserDisc) up until its release as an extra on a giant DVD boxset a decade later, and in addition to that, only saw one proper fansubbing before this digital version came out.

I'd say that's pretty interesting.

I hope this isn't adressed to me only...

And of course, the same goes for everyone else.

[desirecampbell]

Folken, you're really just pissing me off now. You said, and I quote:

An OVA is animation produced for the video market, that's all. Regardless of the storyline or everything else.

If you use this definition, then the Budokai 3 "i-guide" is an OVA too. You can't come back with "is it an hour long?" Not only did you say that length didn't matter, there are many other OVAs which are less than an hour long (and if we can count single episodes, as your deffinition implies, than almost all OVAs are less than an hour long).

I propose, here, that "Plan" is not an OVA. It was always intended as a "visual" strategy guide, even though the system did not appear for a year and a half.
If you contest that it is an OVA, then so is the Budokai 3 "i-Guide".


And for the love of god, stop saying "proofs". It's "proof", singular. "Proofs" refers to scientific proofs.