What would the general consensus be if Dragon Ball GT was announced today?

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

Yeah, I think once Goku becomes the strongest on Earth, it makes sense to escalate to him becoming the strongest in space. Cell you could argue ends up being the strongest across time, and Boo the strongest even in the heavens?

Except the Cell saga breaks that pattern because it is implied at various points Gohan was stronger than Goku. I guess for anyone that would have wanted a passing-the-torch story Cell could have done the job for them, but only if the ending was reworked, because, as MasenkoHA says the one we got wouldn't be suitable for a series finale.

[Cure Dragon 255]

I know it was buried DEEP in my post about tv and blah blah blah every is tired of by now, but I thought someone would comment on that thing. "No, Cure Dragon, Dragon Ball is not about whoring it out for new viewers! Old Fans Matter! U SUCK SUCK SUCK!"

[tonysoprano300]

Although as much as I enjoy the Z era I feel like Toriyama was done creatively after the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai. There was a proper ending there and the story really didn't need continue past that.

The end of the Freeza saga would have made a solid ending. Goku overthrew the galactic emperor so there would be nowhere else for him to go, the original Super Saiyan form would retain its mysticism because we only see it one time during the most titanic battle the universe had ever seen and Namek could have been like the final great adventure.

The ending of the Freeza saga would have made a perfectly fine ending. The ending of the Boo saga is a perfectly fine ending. The ending of GT is a perfectly fine ending. All the post-23rd Tenkaichi Budokai endings work fine as ending, exept Cell that would have made a genuinely terrible ending and only works for Dragon Ball Z the anime where Gohan's prominence was overinflated to begin with.

But there's a genuine through line from the Hunt for the Dragon Ball arc >21st Tenkaichi Budokai>Red Ribbon>22nd Tenkaichi Budokai>Daimao>23rd Tenkaichi Budokai. The Saiyan arc is a game changer because it has to be. The story had nowhere to go after Goku became officially the strongest man on earth (stronger than God!) and has beaten the ultimate evil (twice!) The Freeza saga is a great ending for the new direction the story takes with the Saiyan saga but is a new direction that wasn't built in from the beginning of the story.

Its not necessarily any more or less terrible than ending it at Freeza. I think both the Cell and Buu arcs end with the sentiment that Gokus story is over and that torch is being handed down to the next generation just like Roshi handed the torch to Goku and friends. That I think at least touches on something that was prominent in the early DB days.

The Freeza arc would be a very awkward ending just because it doesn’t really bring anything full circle imo, Goku achieving SSJ is neat but that wasn’t the culmination of some series long journey, the legend of the SSJ wasn’t even seriously brought up until midway through the namek arc.

In the Z portion of DB, the parallels between Goku and Gohan were drawn as early as the saiyan arc, Gohans development as a character/warrior was a core element of the series leading up to the Cell arc. So bringing that loop to a close while simultaneously fitting it into some early DB sensibilities feels somewhat final for Goku’s journey. The Buu arcs ending is essentially a different flavour of this but its the same idea. Its just less impactful because the story is all over the place, it talks big about letting the younger generation take over while simultaneously shafting them and resetting the status quo.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

I know it was buried DEEP in my post about tv and blah blah blah every is tired of by now, but I thought someone would comment on that thing. "No, Cure Dragon, Dragon Ball is not about whoring it out for new viewers! Old Fans Matter! U SUCK SUCK SUCK!"

I think you made a good point there. I believe TOEI has traditionally relied on the franchise gaining new fans anyway, because apparently Chris Sabat told someone at the Resurrection F premier they had no idea how insanely popular or what a cultural phenomenon Dragon Ball was (which would need at least a certain number of old fans).

Both new and old fans are important though, and Dragon Ball is timeless because it transcends the generations. Its not a fad and its not of a certain era. Its a manga and an anime enjoyed by a wide variety of people everywhere of many ages and backgrounds. I can't think of any anime or manga property that has had such a great mix for so long. Even extending to live action I think Star Wars is the only other IP I can think of that continues to bring in newcomers that get into it and become as dedicated as the veterans so seemlessly.

[MasenkoHA]

. not necessarily any more or less terrible than ending it at Freeza. I think both the Cell and Buu arcs end with the sentiment that Gokus story is over and that torch is being handed down to the next generation just like Roshi handed the torch to Goku and friends. That I think at least touches on something that was prominent in the early DB days.

I think my problem with ending at Cell is Gohan is introduced in the Saiyan arc and then is just kind of there from the Namek arc through most of the Cell arc and then Toriyama is like "Actually Gohan is the new hero now!" it doesn't feel like a conclusion because Toriyama never really built up Gohan as Goku's replacement. It's why it works fine as an ending for the Dragon Ball Z tv series because Toei did everything they could to build Gohan up as the star of the show from Z episode 1.

You can say the same about Oob but Oob represents more of an idea and isn't really a character the same way Gohan is. And Goku was always looking for stronger opponents to fight so training the reincarnation of the strongest opponent he ever faced (before Super fucked that up) to have a really good fight at least ties into the series core premise in a way the ending of the Cell saga does not.

The Freeza arc would be a very awkward ending just because it doesn’t really bring anything full circle imo, Goku achieving SSJ is neat but that wasn’t the culmination of some series long journey, the legend of the SSJ wasn’t even seriously brought up until midway through the namek arc.

I agree with this. It's a ending for the new status quo introduced in the Saiyan saga but not really so much the story as a whole. It's a great Dragon Ball Z ending but it's a sub par Dragon Ball ending

[Cure Dragon 255]

I know it was buried DEEP in my post about tv and blah blah blah every is tired of by now, but I thought someone would comment on that thing. "No, Cure Dragon, Dragon Ball is not about whoring it out for new viewers! Old Fans Matter! U SUCK SUCK SUCK!"

I think you made a good point there. I believe TOEI has traditionally relied on the franchise gaining new fans anyway, because apparently Chris Sabat told someone at the Resurrection F premier they had no idea how insanely popular or what a cultural phenomenon Dragon Ball was (which would need at least a certain number of old fans).

Both new and old fans are important though, and Dragon Ball is timeless because it transcends the generations. Its not a fad and its not of a certain era. Its a manga and an anime enjoyed by a wide variety of people everywhere of many ages and backgrounds. I can't think of any anime or manga property that has had such a great mix for so long. Even extending to live action I think Star Wars is the only other IP I can think of that continues to bring in newcomers that get into it and become as dedicated as the veterans so seemlessly.

I dont know if be cutely moved by this statement or fucking infuriated. Chris Sabat has no respect for the franchise. But it is moving that he's impressed by the fanbase.

[AliTheZombie13]

GTWasTheBestPossibleEndingThisStoryCouldveGottenBecauseItActuallyMadeMeCareForTerribleSociopathicCharactersAndNothingWillChangeMyMindOnThisSorry

If we're discussing points where Dragon Ball should've ended... I agree with MasenkoHa. I'm probably in the minority in which I thought the Saiyans were meh, and Goku's retconning into a member of a terribly strong race only worked in the very beginning. Once the story started going, "Only Saiyans can do this, and this, and this, and this. And oh, they get stronger even if you defeat them." Then I started loathing the fact Goku and by extension the Saiyan cast won the superpower lottery.

If we're talking post-Z, then Namek and Cell were fine ending points. The actual ending of "It's okay guys, this isn't family abandonment, this is just how Sayans are." ... Did I mention I hate Goku and the Saiyan retcon yet?

[Cure Dragon 255]

GTWasTheBestPossibleEndingThisStoryCouldveGottenBecauseItActuallyMadeMeCareForTerribleSociopathicCharactersAndNothingWillChangeMyMindOnThisSorry

If we're discussing points where Dragon Ball should've ended... I agree with MasenkoHa. I'm probably in the minority in which I thought the Saiyans were meh, and Goku's retconning into a member of a terribly strong race only worked in the very beginning. Once the story started going, "Only Saiyans can do this, and this, and this, and this. And oh, they get stronger even if you defeat them." Then I started loathing the fact Goku and by extension the Saiyan cast won the superpower lottery.

If we're talking post-Z, then Namek and Cell were fine ending points. The actual ending of "It's okay guys, this isn't family abandonment, this is just how Sayans are." ... Did I mention I hate Goku and the Saiyan retcon yet?

YouShouldntBeSympathizingWithSociopathsAnyway. IMeanWouldYouWatchAShowThatWhitewashedTheMansonFamily? JeffreyDhamer?

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

Once the story started going, "Only Saiyans can do this, and this, and this, and this. And oh, they get stronger even if you defeat them." Then I started loathing the fact Goku and by extension the Saiyan cast won the superpower lottery.

As I've said, if Goku vs Freeza was the only time we seen a Super Saiyan, it wouldn't feel as cheap as it became. It is only when Gohan, Goten and Trunks started getting the form as kids the difference between themselves and the other Earthling warriors or Piccolo became far too large.

Just the fact that Super Saiyan was introduced as this mythical, prophetic idea only to later become a gimmick that has to be relied on in further battles and eventually had to be superseded by other forms felt anti-climactic.

I still have a fondness for the form because of how iconic it is, but it did mark Dragon Ball's move from substance over style in combat to the reverse, the fights in original Dragon Ball are amazing because they have plenty of the former.

[tonysoprano300]

. not necessarily any more or less terrible than ending it at Freeza. I think both the Cell and Buu arcs end with the sentiment that Gokus story is over and that torch is being handed down to the next generation just like Roshi handed the torch to Goku and friends. That I think at least touches on something that was prominent in the early DB days.

I think my problem with ending at Cell is Gohan is introduced in the Saiyan arc and then is just kind of there from the Namek arc through most of the Cell arc and then Toriyama is like "Actually Gohan is the new hero now!" it doesn't feel like a conclusion because Toriyama never really built up Gohan as Goku's replacement. It's why it works fine as an ending for the Dragon Ball Z tv series because Toei did everything they could to build Gohan up as the star of the show from Z episode 1.

You can say the same about Oob but Oob represents more of an idea and isn't really a character the same way Gohan is. And Goku was always looking for stronger opponents to fight so training the reincarnation of the strongest opponent he ever faced (before Super fucked that up) to have a really good fight at least ties into the series core premise in a way the ending of the Cell saga does not.

The Freeza arc would be a very awkward ending just because it doesn’t really bring anything full circle imo, Goku achieving SSJ is neat but that wasn’t the culmination of some series long journey, the legend of the SSJ wasn’t even seriously brought up until midway through the namek arc.

I agree with this. It's a ending for the new status quo introduced in the Saiyan saga but not really so much the story as a whole. It's a great Dragon Ball Z ending but it's a sub par Dragon Ball ending

It was strangely handled in that I felt Toriyama was constantly building Gohan up through the saiyan and Namek arcs, he was a pivotal character in each of those stories and is arguably ag the center of it all before Goku inevitably shows up. But when we hit the Cell arc, Gohan is absent for like 80% of that story only to be inserted at the very end. I do think the idea behind it makes sense but the Cell arc was just the weirdest arc to do it in.

I still think its better than ending it at Freeza but yea not very ideal. The TV series does do it better(it does a lot of things better if we’re being real).

[Zephyr]

Yeah, I think once Goku becomes the strongest on Earth, it makes sense to escalate to him becoming the strongest in space. Cell you could argue ends up being the strongest across time, and Boo the strongest even in the heavens?

Except the Cell saga breaks that pattern because it is implied at various points Gohan was stronger than Goku. I guess for anyone that would have wanted a passing-the-torch story Cell could have done the job for them, but only if the ending was reworked, because, as MasenkoHA says the one we got wouldn't be suitable for a series finale.

Yeah it's not perfect, because he's not exactly the strongest by the end of the Boo arc either. I should have phrased it more that those are the realms that the sphere of challenge gets expanded into.

As for Cell as an ending, it's among my least favorite of those listed, for reasons I've also gone into before. But it's much more conclusive of a story than, say, the 22nd Tenkaichi Budokai or the Saiyan arcs. It's also not the only one of those potential endings I listed that would have left plot threads dangling; if you end at Pilaf you never see the training that Roshi promised Goku, and if you end at Red Ribbon/Baba you never see Goku finally winning the Tenkaichi Budokai (or becoming a teacher). I wouldn't call them great, but maybe solid.

[tonysoprano300]

The Cell saga doesn’t work as an endpoint for the series as a whole …but I think it can be viewed as an ending for Goku’s role as protagonist. The reasoning given in the story was pretty silly of course but its obvious that Goku as a character had stagnated, he was becoming much more of a plot device to bail out the dragon team than he was an actual character. This was especially apparent in the Namek saga.

[Cure Dragon 255]

The Cell saga doesn’t work as an endpoint for the series as a whole …but I think it can be viewed as an ending for Goku’s role as protagonist. The reasoning given in the story was pretty silly of course but its obvious that Goku as a character had stagnated, he was becoming much more of a plot device to bail out the dragon team than he was an actual character. This was especially apparent in the Namek saga.

Doesnt this describe Gohan more than Goku?

[tonysoprano300]

The Cell saga doesn’t work as an endpoint for the series as a whole …but I think it can be viewed as an ending for Goku’s role as protagonist. The reasoning given in the story was pretty silly of course but its obvious that Goku as a character had stagnated, he was becoming much more of a plot device to bail out the dragon team than he was an actual character. This was especially apparent in the Namek saga.

Doesnt this describe Gohan more than Goku?

I'm more so referring to the “waiting for Goku” trope, Gohan was always taking centre stage in the various conflicts while Goku was off doing some special off screen training

[Cure Dragon 255]

False alarm everyone, it turns out La Tele IS STILL AIRING GT. Its just on Saturday Mornings ironically enough.

I even screencapped so there is absolutely NO MISTAKE.

[WittyUsername]

I used to think the Freeza arc would’ve made for a good endpoint for the series, but looking back, that belief was largely clouded by the Z anime, as well as the long-running and baseless rumor that Toriyama intended to end the manga at that point. Honestly, I think the most fitting place to end the manga outside of where it actually ended would’ve been the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai. That was definitive enough of an ending that Roshi had to break the fourth wall to assure everyone that the story wasn’t over yet.

In terms of overall finality though, it’s pretty much impossible to top the GT ending.

[Cure Dragon 255]

I really need to know how to share pics online. How do? I really wanna show everyone that two episodes aired today!

Also The Rildo fight is REALLY GOOD. I had forgotten it.












BONUS WEIRD CGI PARAGUAY COMMECIALS

[aleksandrored]

I believe that the opinion about DBGT has changed over the years. In the beginning the opinion was more favorable in the parts of the Baby and the dragons saga, over time it started to be hated for not being canonical, then it became nostalgic (mainly because of the opening) and in the end with the debut of DB Super, many They prefer the GT and say it's not that bad.

[FPSSJ4_Goku]

To complete the trifecta, someone should make a thread called:

"What would the general consensus be if Dragon Ball Super was announced in 1996?"

Oh what a fun thread it would be.

You're lucky. I did this on r/dbz 3 years ago, but I'm sure someone could make a similar thread once again...

[Cure Dragon 255]

To complete the trifecta, someone should make a thread called:

"What would the general consensus be if Dragon Ball Super was announced in 1996?"

Oh what a fun thread it would be.

You're lucky. I did this on r/dbz 3 years ago, but I'm sure someone could make a similar thread once again...

Now that I think about it, this question is EXTREMELY MEATY AND JUICY food for thought. What if Super was the last series? What if it was not Toei and NOT Toriyama who came up with it? What if GT was the "Toriyama Helmed Revival". And before you said "Its extremely noticeable which version had AT LEAST some semblance of Toriyama plotting it" what I am suggesting is if ALL THE LABELS were turned around but the result was the same.