What would the general consensus be if Dragon Ball GT was announced today?

[WittyUsername]

GT definitely hasn’t received the kind of re-evaluation the Star Wars prequels received. It has its fans, but it’s still a common target of mockery among the community at large, especially by TeamFourStar.

I think it likely doesn’t help that the Star Wars prequels were a story that the creator of the franchise genuinely wanted to tell, while GT was made because Toei didn’t want to let go of their golden goose at the time.

[Cure Dragon 255]

GT definitely hasn’t received the kind of re-evaluation the Star Wars prequels received. It has its fans, but it’s still a common target of mockery among the community at large, especially by TeamFourStar.

I think it likely doesn’t help that the Star Wars prequels were a story that the creator of the franchise genuinely wanted to tell, while GT was made because Toei didn’t want to let go of their golden goose at the time.

What is truly beloved and nostalgic is Dan Dan Kokoro Hikareteku and Hitori Janai which are lovely songs (Rocketman's hate for it not withstanding.) And the whole OST which is mostly orchestral versions of those two songs. All other pieces of music are chopped liver, especially the "Action-ish" ones that dont copy Dan Dan.

[MasenkoHA]

GT definitely hasn’t received the kind of re-evaluation the Star Wars prequels received. It has its fans, but it’s still a common target of mockery among the community at large, especially by TeamFourStar.

I think it likely doesn’t help that the Star Wars prequels were a story that the creator of the franchise genuinely wanted to tell, while GT was made because Toei didn’t want to let go of their golden goose at the time.

Tbh while I think "creator worship" has something to do with it I think a lot of the Star Wars prequels re-evaluation is because those people were small children when those movies came out and are now old enough to voice their opinions on how much they loved those movie and they don't understand the hate those movies get because they were like 4 when Phantom Menace came out. The people criticizing the prequels in the early aughts were gen x and 80s millennials who were teenagers/adults when the prequels came out. The Dragon Ball equivalent is back in the early 2000s the Funimation dub of Z got a lot of hate online for the Faulconer score, the Funimation cast, the script rewrites all by fans of the Japanese version who were almost entirely older than the target audience. It was enough hate for Funimation to slowly change course and go the more faithful route for the rest of their anime licenses (GT and to a much lesser extent og Dragon Ball being the notable exceptions) . But come around oh 2007 ish? Funimation's target audience were now the teenagers online voicing how much they loved the reversioned dub. Faulconer's score was God tier, dialog like Hope of the Universe was iconic, the Funimation cast were all perfect fits for the characters. We also saw it with Kai. What was hated by the Toonami generation was loved by gen z when they got older in the late 2010s

GT as far as the U.S is concerned doesnt really get that benefit. Funimation's target audience for Z were now preteens/teenagers so GT was shit either because A. They saw online that it was bad so it must be true B. Toriyama didn't write it so it must be a soulless money grab on principle C. They were older and more critical in their taste. Funimation trying to make GT more of a show for teenagers and failing miserably probably didn't help. It does seem GT is more fondly remembered in Japan (if the preorder for their Dragon Boxes being bigger than Toei anticipated is any indication) amd countries that received more faithful dubs.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

Another reason the Star Wars prequels are seeing a re-evaluation is because its become a lot more trendy to trash the sequels. It happened with Dragon Ball too, Super became the new punching bag after the fandom got sick of trashing GT. I suspect there were adult prequel fans even in 1999-2005 that were afraid to speak out because their views were looked down upon.

While the early 2000s prequel hatred escaped me I have heard it was pretty intense if you looked in the right places (Michael Kaminski described it as a "blood bath" in an interview and said the Disney-era movie backlash is child's play by comparison). I'm not aware of GT detractors being that way online, most I've heard was down to it simply being "non canon" as if that invalidates everything about the show.

It also becomes a problem when creators get too much control and are surrounded by yes men, as George Lucas was. The fact The Phantom Menace came 2 years after the first release of the original trilogy special edition didn't help matters, as it all of a sudden became cool to hate George Lucas for making changes like Greedo shooting Han, and then for the new movies introduced the idea of midichlorians (as Toriyama similarly did with S-Cells).

I think by Battle of Gods TOEI began to realize the power of creator worship, as every new movie, as well as Super and Daima were marketed as being from the pen of Toriyama. We can debate how much was Toriyama's involvement but it was an easy selling point even if he did just give rough outlines. Hell Toriyama wrote a memo for Resurrection F that he never wished would be turned into a full-blown screenplay but it did, likely because TOEI jumped at the opportunity to boast about a script completely written by the creator.

If GT were announced today, as it was in 1996 there would be a lot of questions unless TOEI made some attempt to bloat Toriyama's involvement because the hatred would be a lot more intense without that shield.

[SupremeKai25]

It happened with Dragon Ball too, Super became the new punching bag after the fandom got sick of trashing GT.

This. I don't know how people are not catching onto this.

I would also add the Cell and Buu saga alongside GT. Go read any old thread from before 2010 on this forum, you'll see that all the criticism Super's getting nowadays was levied against the Cell and Buu sagas in the past.

Protagonists acting stupid? Goku giving senzu bean to Moro? People in 2006 trashed the Cell saga because it dumbed down Goku, Vegeta, and Krillin.

Same thing for Star Wars. People literally bullied the kid actor back in 2000 but now apparently the Prequels were hidden intellectual gems all along!

Basically, since the power of childhood nostalgia is so strong, Super and the Disney Sequels have now become punching bag, because the people who might feel nostalgia for them are not old enough to use the internet yet, and the people who do use the internet now have nostalgia for their childhood shows (GT/Cell and Buu saga/Prequels).

But rest assured that in the next decade you'll be seeing lots of "WERE THE SEQUELS UNDERRATED/OVERHATED???" threads popping up on Reddit. I guarantee you this will happen, because it's what happened with the Prequels in the years 2015-2020. Same thing for Super, I'm actually excited that I will be vindicated in the future.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

Same thing for Star Wars. People literally bullied the kid actor back in 2000 but now apparently the Prequels were hidden intellectual gems all along!

I love Star Wars, but the fandom is the worst. Makes Dragon Ball fans look like saints in comparison.

[Cure Dragon 255]

Same thing for Star Wars. People literally bullied the kid actor back in 2000 but now apparently the Prequels were hidden intellectual gems all along!

I love Star Wars, but the fandom is the worst. Makes Dragon Ball fans look like saints in comparison.

The Dragon Ball fandom isnt much better actually, Karina Altamirano swore to never ever work on the Dragon Ball Franchise again after the bullying she got for replacing Laura Torres as Gohan in Kai. To the fandom this is a win because "She REALLY sucked." but to me its a shame... even if I admit I hated her Gohan.

[Majin Buu]

But rest assured that in the next decade you'll be seeing lots of "WERE THE SEQUELS UNDERRATED/OVERHATED???" threads popping up on Reddit. I guarantee you this will happen, because it's what happened with the Prequels in the years 2015-2020. Same thing for Super, I'm actually excited that I will be vindicated in the future.

Take it from a staunch defender of the Buu arc who's seen plenty of folks turn around on it in recent years: Even if Super does gain more defenders in the future, it will still be divisive just like the Buu arc is still divisive.

That, and there's no guarantee that such a turnaround will happen for Super to begin with, so it's presumptuous to jump the gun and declare that you'll be vindicated in the future because you want to be right about this today.

[JulieYBM]

I learned from watching One Piece fans chasing vindication and validation throughout the 2000s and 2010s while living in the shadows of franchise series they deemed inferior to One Piece—Naruto, Bleach, et cetera—that chasing even after achieving the acclaim one thinks that they deserve one will always be sore and sour over past perceived slights. This is to say that waiting for Dragon Ball Super or whatever to get its day in the sun is honestly just going to be a waste of time—especially when you suddenly find yourself a lot older and time having passed.

Albeit, this is also from my perspective of having been Extremely Online for, like, 26 years. It really isn't worth putting yourself through turmoil over what other people think or don't think about That Thing You Like.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

The problem with One Piece getting re-assessed is its so damn long only the hardcores can keep up and its too daunting for newcomers. This is coming from someone who watched the first 150 episodes and enjoyed them because I want to get back but there's so much other stuff out there I want to watch.

Anyway, there's no point waiting for any piece of media to get validated, especially, as Majin Buu said no one can promise it will happen. People need to remember art is subjective and if anyone yucks your yum its their problem. Just enjoy what you enjoy and screw whoever disparage you for liking it.

I love romantic comedies even though most people, especially guys thinks they're trash, but they work for me and that's good enough.

It's also probably unlikely any show or movie will be re-evaluated unless there is a good reason for it. Whether one prefers GT or Super doesn't matter, but the former is a lot more ambitious. Fans may not turn around in hoards to defend Super if we get a new series in the future that has the same level of creativity (which is significantly less than GT).

It's like that with Star Wars too, people see how unimaginative the Disney-era material is (which I mostly agree with, but I'm also what you may call a Last Jedi apologist, likewise I'm not holding out for people to change their minds, I respectfully accept different viewpoints) and have started to miss George Lucas' world building, which was phenomenal in the prequels, despite any other flaws they had.

[Cure Dragon 255]

I learned from watching One Piece fans chasing vindication and validation throughout the 2000s and 2010s while living in the shadows of franchise series they deemed inferior to One Piece—Naruto, Bleach, et cetera—that chasing even after achieving the acclaim one thinks that they deserve one will always be sore and sour over past perceived slights. This is to say that waiting for Dragon Ball Super or whatever to get its day in the sun is honestly just going to be a waste of time—especially when you suddenly find yourself a lot older and time having passed.

Albeit, this is also from my perspective of having been Extremely Online for, like, 26 years. It really isn't worth putting yourself through turmoil over what other people think or don't think about That Thing You Like.

Not me. I am mega happy with all the success One Piece has achieved. I desperately wanted a One Piece redub for my region and I am ULTRA HAPPY that it is a mega success. Precure is next. The utterly shitty Televisa Mexican dub has to be thrown into the trash and then a new dub be born. I dont feel any "One Piece isnt getting the respect it deserves" vibes. Only mighty validation.

[MasenkoHA]

But rest assured that in the next decade you'll be seeing lots of "WERE THE SEQUELS UNDERRATED/OVERHATED???" threads popping up on Reddit. I guarantee you this will happen, because it's what happened with the Prequels in the years 2015-2020. Same thing for Super, I'm actually excited that I will be vindicated in the future.

Take it from a staunch defender of the Buu arc who's seen plenty of folks turn around on it in recent years: Even if Super does gain more defenders in the future, it will still be divisive just like the Buu arc is still divisive.

That, and there's no guarantee that such a turnaround will happen for Super to begin with, so it's presumptuous to jump the gun and declare that you'll be vindicated in the future because you want to be right about this today.

And I don't think that many people are going to change their minds about Super. Especially when the show already ended 7 years ago.

We might see more "I watched Super when I was 6 and loved it I can't believe people don't like it" but I don't think Super's vocal detractors are going to do a 180.

With the Boo saga I at least felt it was more people being thrown off by the comedy after being used to the tone of the Saiyan-Cell saga. As more fans saw the original Dragon Ball and became more familiar with Toriyama's other works and got a better understanding of what kind of author Toriyama actually is they were able to appreciate the Boo saga better. Super's probably not going to get that kind of re-appraisal.

[Cure Dragon 255]

I know this REALLY isnt what is being discussed at the moment. But here's something for your ears: Toei/Toriyama/Shueisha dont care about old fans, they've never been about the old fans. What they care about is the hype they can generate with new viewers. Not even kids or anything. NEW VIEWERS Oh sure, OLD FAME is extremely important. That's why Dragon Ball has never ceased airing in Latin America in some sort of form its old fame tells broadcasters the brand is reliable and sure to attract viewers, but if it DOESNT then its tossed into the trash. This even applies elsewhere.

[AliTheZombie13]

With the Boo saga I at least felt it was more people being thrown off by the comedy after being used to the tone of the Saiyan-Cell saga. As more fans saw the original Dragon Ball and became more familiar with Toriyama's other works and got a better understanding of what kind of author Toriyama actually is they were able to appreciate the Boo saga better. Super's probably not going to get that kind of re-appraisal.

Take it from a new fan who grew up and prefers the light-hearted adventure tone of the original Dragon Ball, and who only watched the Boo Saga in full recently: The problem isn't the tone, the problem is that the plot keeps being taken to a million different places, but rarely commits to any of the things it promises to commit to.

Also... the countless instances of "Yeah, I could've ended this whole arc in two seconds, but because I'm a mor- I mean, Saiyan, I didn't. This is how Saiyans do, deal with it!" Didn't like it in the Cell Saga, don't like it here.

All of that being said, I can at least appreciate the Boo Saga for being what Toriyama, in his own words, wanted to write rather than what his editors were forcing down his throat. I did enjoy parts of it. While Super, I felt was incredibly corporate and soulless. Like, none of it felt like somebody involved wanted to tell a story, felt more like they wanted a paycheck and that was it.

[JulieYBM]

The Cell Game and the Majin Buu arc really go to shown the importance of a good editor to guide a creator into something resembling a coherent story and tone. I think the over reliance on constantly changing the focus and trying to outsmart himself didn't really contribute to any tangible arc that we were following to coincide with the story's ending.

[MasenkoHA]

With the Boo saga I at least felt it was more people being thrown off by the comedy after being used to the tone of the Saiyan-Cell saga. As more fans saw the original Dragon Ball and became more familiar with Toriyama's other works and got a better understanding of what kind of author Toriyama actually is they were able to appreciate the Boo saga better. Super's probably not going to get that kind of re-appraisal.

Take it from a new fan who grew up and prefers the light-hearted adventure tone of the original Dragon Ball, and who only watched the Boo Saga in full recently: The problem isn't the tone, the problem is that the plot keeps being taken to a million different places, but rarely commits to any of the things it promises to commit to.

Also... the countless instances of "Yeah, I could've ended this whole arc in two seconds, but because I'm a mor- I mean, Saiyan, I didn't. This is how Saiyans do, deal with it!" Didn't like it in the Cell Saga, don't like it here.

All of that being said, I can at least appreciate the Boo Saga for being what Toriyama, in his own words, wanted to write rather than what his editors were forcing down his throat. I did enjoy parts of it. While Super, I felt was incredibly corporate and soulless. Like, none of it felt like somebody involved wanted to tell a story, felt more like they wanted a paycheck and that was it.

I don't disagree with you that there's a lot of writing problems in the Boo arc. The seams are much more visible than perhaps any other arc. It's still easily the most fun of the Z era imo. Although as much as I enjoy the Z era I feel like Toriyama was done creatively after the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai. There was a proper ending there and the story really didn't need continue past that.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

Although as much as I enjoy the Z era I feel like Toriyama was done creatively after the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai. There was a proper ending there and the story really didn't need continue past that.

The end of the Freeza saga would have made a solid ending. Goku overthrew the galactic emperor so there would be nowhere else for him to go, the original Super Saiyan form would retain its mysticism because we only see it one time during the most titanic battle the universe had ever seen and Namek could have been like the final great adventure.

I too am glad everything that followed exist but I'd agree from that point every arc like Cell and Boo, even if they were hypothetically Toriyama's intended ending points would have had less justification in doing so. Ironically GT breaks that trend without the creator's involvement because it had a beautiful conclusion that makes the series still feel legendary 27 years on.

[MasenkoHA]

Although as much as I enjoy the Z era I feel like Toriyama was done creatively after the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai. There was a proper ending there and the story really didn't need continue past that.

The end of the Freeza saga would have made a solid ending. Goku overthrew the galactic emperor so there would be nowhere else for him to go, the original Super Saiyan form would retain its mysticism because we only see it one time during the most titanic battle the universe had ever seen and Namek could have been like the final great adventure.

The ending of the Freeza saga would have made a perfectly fine ending. The ending of the Boo saga is a perfectly fine ending. The ending of GT is a perfectly fine ending. All the post-23rd Tenkaichi Budokai endings work fine as ending, exept Cell that would have made a genuinely terrible ending and only works for Dragon Ball Z the anime where Gohan's prominence was overinflated to begin with.

But there's a genuine through line from the Hunt for the Dragon Ball arc >21st Tenkaichi Budokai>Red Ribbon>22nd Tenkaichi Budokai>Daimao>23rd Tenkaichi Budokai. The Saiyan arc is a game changer because it has to be. The story had nowhere to go after Goku became officially the strongest man on earth (stronger than God!) and has beaten the ultimate evil (twice!) The Freeza saga is a great ending for the new direction the story takes with the Saiyan saga but is a new direction that wasn't built in from the beginning of the story.

[Zephyr]

Dragon Ball feels like it's stuffed with potentially solid ending points. Finishing the Dragon Ball hunt (Pilaf), finally getting his grampa's Four Star Ball back (Red Ribbon/Baba), finally earning the title of strongest on Earth (23rd TB), defeating his peoples' destroyer while fulfilling their legend (Namek), dying and leaving things to his son (Cell), taking on the final antagonist as a pupil (Boo), dying and defeating the Dragon Balls themselves (GT), and completing a technique renowned among the gods of the multiverse (ToP) all serve as appropriate places to end our journey with Goku.

Yeah, I think once Goku becomes the strongest on Earth, it makes sense to escalate to him becoming the strongest in space. Cell you could argue ends up being the strongest across time, and Boo the strongest even in the heavens?

As far as through-lines go, him going from losing the tournament to winning it does get capped with the 23rd TB. But him going from a student to a teacher doesn't get capped until Cell and Boo, so it's not as if there's nothing going on there. One could argue that the Saiyan/Namek arcs are then a kind of "filler", or a sort of diversion, in that regard, but at least in the Cell arc the competing 'martial arts schools' are between different father/son pairs trying to improve the Super Saiyan, which doesn't happen without the Saiyan/Namek arcs. They also provide very important moments of Goku's escalating recklessness, which ties back to Roshi's lesson about bigger fish. There's really not a single arc from the original manga that I would be happy to see gone, or even massively changed.

[JulieYBM]

I honestly don't feel like the Twenty-Third Tenka-ichi Budoukai was a good ending point. I think the Daimaou arc worked better for that purpose—especially if Toriyama had not gone the route of making Piccolo Daimaou reincarnate. I don't really feel like the Twenty-Third Tenka-ichi properly conveys a whole lot of development for any of the characters. Piccolo's back! Okay, but Gokuu already resolved the emotional tension by defeating him, so we need a little more than "Piccolo's trying to conquer the world! Again!!" Gokuu gets engaged, but literally nobody really cares about that—let alone Son Gokuu himself. There's a nice little moment with Tenshinhan facing his past in the form of Tao Pai-Pai, but that's dealth with quickly and with little climax because Tenshinhan is just so much stronger and barely had an internal struggle to face that then puts his life in danger. Yamcha gets a gag fight, Kuririn gets a cool fight with Piccolo, but that's about it. God? God bumbles through his arc with trying to take care of Piccolo, and his use in the story amounts to little more than "Gokuu's already way stronger than God!"

Piccolo doesn't have much of an arc, either. He shows up, goes "rawr, i'm evil!!" then fucks off after Gokuu kicks his ass. The Twenty-Third Tenka-ichi relies heavily on a previous arc's already resolved conflict without asking how that already resolved tension is affecting where the characters are now going.

I dunno. As sexy as Toriyama's arc is, the arc in general just sucks.