The Super Saiyan 2nd Grade's Weaknesses

[Piccolo Daimao]

So, as we know, as part of his training, Goku abandoned the advanced grades of Super Saiyan because Super Saiyan 3rd Grade had reduced speed and too much chi consumption. Which is why he resorted to mastering the regular Super Saiyan form, which had a better balance of power and speed.

But we know that only Super Saiyan 3rd Grade had the speed weakness. But what about Super Saiyan 2nd Grade? I think that it had the disadvantage of chi consumption, but there wasn't any speed loss, since he was able to outrun Semi Perfect Cell easily and only got beat by Perfect Cell because of their power difference. So other than chi consumption, I don't see what was so wrong with it.

But the basic idea was that the advanced grades of Super Saiyan had limits and simply wasn't as balanced or chi-consuming as the mastered Super Saiyan.

[Horgus]

I think part of the reason it was abandoned was because it had a linear path of advancement that inevitably led to stage 3, and all of the drawbacks already stated.

The path that Trunks and Vegeta went down in the RoSAT led to a dead end, and was the result of a flawed training regimen.

[Dayspring]

If SSJ2 has more advantages and same or less ki consumption, that right there is reason enough to completely abandone SSJ 2nd Grade. In light of this, I think it's why Vegeta used 2nd Grade instead of avoiding it; 2nd Grade is better than nothing.

There's probably more to it, though. Otherwise Vegeta probably would have used "SSJ2 2nd Grade" against Boo before self-destructing.

[Kaboom]

The way I see it, SSj 2nd Grade actually IS the power of Super Saiyan 2, but tapping into it in a forceful, improper way when the body isn't fully prepared or conditioned for it yet. So once Super Saiyan is properly "mastered" and SSJ2 is subsequently achieved the "right" way, it's not just that there's no longer any 'point' in using SSj-2nd... it's that it doesn't even exist anymore.

[Haseowolf]

The way I see it, SSj 2nd Grade actually IS[/b] the power of Super Saiyan 2, but tapping into it in a forceful, improper way when the body isn't fully prepared or conditioned for it yet. So once Super Saiyan is properly "mastered" and SSJ2 is subsequently achieved the "right" way, it's not just that there's no longer any 'point' in using SSj-2nd... it's that it doesn't even exist anymore.

I don't mean to nitpick Kaboom, but I think you mean SSj 3rd Grade as Trunks couldn't take on Perfect Cell when in 2nd grade and resorted to 3rd grade in order to try and match him (this sounds kind of funny out of context).

[Kaboom]

Ah well actually, I kinda meant both. They're the same thing. SSj second grade just pumps enough of that power to strike a good balance between power gained and speed lost. 3rd Grade doesn't bother and just pumps up as much as possible.

[Bussani]

I agree that they're the same thing. We give them names like grade 2 and grade 3 just to differentiate them, but basically they're all Super Saiyajin level 1 with the muscles beefed up. I don't think Vegeta attained grade 2 and was like "Yes, this is magically a form". I think he could have bulked up as much as Trunks did, he just didn't because he knew and drawbacks and stopped at a point that still had a balance of speed and power.

As for what's wrong with it, it's essentially the ki consumption I think. Wasting all your stamina is a terrible strategy. Goku and Gohan overcame such a problem when they mastered Super Saiyajin ("They're Super Saiyajin...but I don't feel the energy. What's going on?")

Also, like Horgus said, the only way to advance the form further is to do what Trunks did. I guess raising your base strength would make grade 2 and 3 stronger, of course, but it would still have the same weaknesses.

[Dayspring]

The way I see it, SSj 2nd Grade actually IS the power of Super Saiyan 2, but tapping into it in a forceful, improper way when the body isn't fully prepared or conditioned for it yet. So once Super Saiyan is properly "mastered" and SSJ2 is subsequently achieved the "right" way, it's not just that there's no longer any 'point' in using SSj-2nd... it's that it doesn't even exist anymore.

I think you're half right. SSJ2 is derived from exceeding your maximum muscle strength, while 2nd and 3rd Grade seem to pump energy into said muscles. Since Gotenks prooved that SSJ3 can be obtained without SSJ2, I think SSJ 3rd Grade is tapping into all of SSJ2's power, while 2nd Grade is between the two in terms of strength. In other words, 3rd Grade is an imperfect SSJ2, while 2nd Grade is an imperfect 3rd Grade.

[Saiyan-Professor]

If I remember correctly, Cell said that Trunks had an advantage in the strength department over him but Trunks could not touch him because of the speed deficiency. I think 3rd Grade has Super Saiyan 2’s strength but lacks the speed because of the extra mass.

[Herms]

Yeah, Cell says that Trunks far surpassed him in power, but that even so Trunks had no chance of beating him like that.

[Darkprince410]

If I remember correctly, Cell said that Trunks had an advantage in the strength department over him but Trunks could not touch him because of the speed deficiency. I think 3rd Grade has Super Saiyan 2’s strength but lacks the speed because of the extra mass.

At the same time though Cell hadn't demonstrated anywhere near his full power, and given that Mirai Trunks more or less stated that FpSsj Gokuu had surpassed him (if I remember correctly he commented at the start of his real battle with Cell that Gokuu has no equal), then Ssj 3rd Grade seems inferior to FpSsj in terms of strength.

[Bussani]

If I remember correctly, Cell said that Trunks had an advantage in the strength department over him but Trunks could not touch him because of the speed deficiency. I think 3rd Grade has Super Saiyan 2’s strength but lacks the speed because of the extra mass.

At the same time though Cell hadn't demonstrated anywhere near his full power, and given that Mirai Trunks more or less stated that FpSsj Gokuu had surpassed him (if I remember correctly he commented at the start of his real battle with Cell that Gokuu has no equal), then Ssj 3rd Grade seems inferior to FpSsj in terms of strength.

This is true. When Goku and Gohan come out of the Room of Spirit and Time, Goku makes a point of saying that he's surpassed Vegeta. Of course, there's no reason Vegeta couldn't increase his base strength to power up his 2nd grade, but the point is that Goku and Gohan had surpassed him without it...which is quite impressive.

Which obviously means that Gohan, who was already stronger than Goku, must have really surpassed Trunks' 3rd grade strength once he finally went SSJ2. And there's evidence that he was still holding back even then.

[Bejiita]

To me, a SSJ of the 3rd level (or just say USSJ2) isn't as powerful as the SSJ2. It could be that it's a completely seperate transformation. Remember, Cell can also make the same transformation, as he shows Trunks, but why can't he power up as a SSJ2 does? Cell was made from the Saiyan cells of course, but before any of the Saiyans had achieved the power of even a USSJ, so how Cell can even ascend to the USSJ level anyway is a mystery.

Some say, that both USSJ forms are flawed versions of a SSJ2, and even I too think this, and some poeple think SSJ2 is 1 level above USSJ2 in terms of power and speed, however you put it, I don't think an USSJ2 is as powerful as a true SSJ2, seeing as if it were a seperate form, it's technically a level beyond that which would mean a rise in strength makes sense, and even if you were to say it's a flawed version, then wouldn't the correct form be stronger as well as faster?

If anything, something that can move faster will make contact with a target with more force, for example, a train moving at 60mph would cause less carnage than a train moving at 250mph, even though the weight is the same, so use the same logic and you can see why the power of a SSJ2 is greater, maybe the speed increase is what does this, but whatever the cause, we can say that a SSJ2 is a lot more powerful than any USSJ form, and not just because of the speed increase, but becuase the SSJ2 form can actually deliver more force.

I mean, forget the loss of speed, why couldn't Trunks just wait for Cell to use his finishing attack like a Kamehameha, and then use his greater power to form a bigger energy wave than Cell's and vapourise him? I doubt the speed of the the ki attacks are reduced as well? Well, Trunks would still not have one, again, as Cell proved, he can bulk his muscles up too, meaning his power level increases in the same proportion that the Saiyans do, meaning that Cell's power was still capable of going higher than Trunks at the time right? So, when Gohan was SSJ2 and doing a one handed Kamehameha (also proof that Gohan was miles ahead), all the power of Cell was nothing in any of his forms, Cell even tried to use the USSJ form against SSJ2 Gohan, and what happens? He gets fucked up.

[Saiyan-Professor]

If I remember correctly, Cell said that Trunks had an advantage in the strength department over him but Trunks could not touch him because of the speed deficiency. I think 3rd Grade has Super Saiyan 2’s strength but lacks the speed because of the extra mass.

At the same time though Cell hadn't demonstrated anywhere near his full power, and given that Mirai Trunks more or less stated that FpSsj Gokuu had surpassed him (if I remember correctly he commented at the start of his real battle with Cell that Gokuu has no equal), then Ssj 3rd Grade seems inferior to FpSsj in terms of strength.

I am pretty sure Cell knew his own strength, even if Trunks was stronger than him it was of no consequence because he could not even touch him. The reason why Cell said Kakarrot had no equal was that he had progressed the farthest as far as balancing strength and speed is concerned.