The "Gods" of Dragonball?

[Lpfreak]

So I recently pondered the thoughts of the gods in Dragonball. Of course Kami (forgive my dub spelling) is the god of earth, or at least until Dende comes around to fill in. So I wondered, are the Namekians a chosen race of gods? Is there only one god in Dragonball? What about the Kais? Are they gods, or even spirits? Please help me...

[Bussani]

The Namekians aren't exactly chosen of Gods, but they are naturally good, and only pure hearted people are chosen to be God of a world. The reason Earth wanted Dende to become God was so they could have dragon balls again, basically. That, and I guess they think Namekians make good Gods.

A world's Kami/God is chosen from it's population, then assigned an assistant from the afterlife, according to Herms' translation of the new guide. Mr Popo and Korin are apparently the assistants on Earth.

The afterlife in Dragon Ball is a physical place, so the people there like Enma and Kaio aren't spirits. But they are Gods. The Kaio are the 'Lords of Worlds' who watch over the 4 parts of the living universe, while the Dai Kaio is the boss of them. Then above them, in the Kaioshin realm (which is apparently separate from the universe/afterlife that make up the main Cosmos of Dragon Ball) there are meant to be 4 Kaioshin and a Dai Kaioshin leading them, but most of them died against Buu and haven't been replaced at the time the story takes place.

So basically, every world with a population supposedly has a Kami. Enma is the God of his part of the afterlife where he judges souls. The Kaio are the Gods of the Gods, so to speak, and the Kaioshin watch over everything from an even higher pecking order.

I hope I haven't left anything out. All credit probably goes to Herms, since it's his translations I got it all from.

Edit: Check out the thread on the Super Exciting Story Guide is you want to know more. The part about where Kaio come from is pretty interesting.

http://db.schuby.org/daizex/viewtopic.php?t=10196

[Lpfreak]

The Namekians aren't exactly chosen of Gods, but they are naturally good, and only pure hearted people are chosen to be God of a world. The reason Earth wanted Dende to become God was so they could have dragon balls again, basically. That, and I guess they think Namekians make good Gods.

A world's Kami/God is chosen from it's population, then assigned an assistant from the afterlife, according to Herms' translation of the new guide. Mr Popo and Karin are apparently the assistants on Earth.

The afterlife in Dragon Ball is a physical place, so the people there like Enma and Kaio aren't spirits. But they are Gods. The Kaio are the 'Lords of Worlds' who watch over the 4 parts of the living universe, while the Dai Kaio is the boss of them. Then above them, in the Kaioshin realm (which is apparently separate from the universe/afterlife that make up the main Cosmos of Dragon Ball) there are meant to be 4 Kaioshin and a Dai Kaioshin leading them, but most of them died against Buu and haven't been replaced at the time the story takes place.

So basically, every world with a population supposedly has a Kami. Enma is the God of his part of the afterlife where he judges souls. The Kaio are the Gods of the Gods, so to speak, and the Kaioshin watch over everything from an even higher pecking order.

I hope I haven't left anything out. All credit probably goes to Herms, since it's his translations I got it all from.

Edit: Check out the thread on the Super Exciting Story Guide is you want to know more. The part about where Kaio come from is pretty interesting.

http://db.schuby.org/daizex/viewtopic.php?t=10196

Wow, exactly what I was looking for! Thank you so much for the explanation and amazing link! I got lost for hours in reading the character profiles. Anyways, yes thank you very much.

[Bussani]

Glad I could help.

I know a lot of people like the first half of Dragon Ball (the 'non-Z' part), but to be honest, the Kaio, Kaioshin and Cosmos itself really fascinate me. They're possibly my favorite part of the whole story.

[Herms]

Bussani already linked to the SEG thread, but since my explanation of the god hierarchy chart is all the way on the last page, I thought I'd just copy it here:

The section on the gods has a chart of the god hierarchy, explaining the role of each station of god. The gods in the living world are chosen from among the inhabitants of each planet, and are given attendants from the afterlife to support them (the God of Earth’s attendants are Karin and Mister Popo). Their job is to oversee their particular planet. The god of the Enma Realm is of course Enma Daio, who oversees the souls of the dead, and passes judgment on them to determine whether they go to Heaven or Hell. The gods of the Kaio planets are the 4 Kaio (North, East, South, and West), who oversee the four sections of the universe (aka the living world), and the Dai-Kaio, who supervises the Kaio. Finally there are the Kaioshin, the gods of the Kaioshin Realm, the gods of the gods. They protect everything in both the afterlife and living world, and interfere in the case of emergencies. There is (or rather was) the Dai-Kaioshin, with 4 Kaioshin (North, South, East, and West again) underneath him. Kibito is the attendant of the Kaioshin, serving the same function as Mister Popo does for the God of Earth.

For the record, the thing about Mister Popo and Karin being sent from the afterlife to assist the Earth's God/Kami, and the clarification that the Kaioshin watch over both the afterlife and living world while the Kaio only watch over the living world, were both originally given in Daizenshuu 7. There's actually not anything new in that section, but I wrote it up because another explanation of the DB god system doesn't hurt, and because it's nice to see that the SEG backs up Daizenshuu 7. The portion of the Toriyama interview where Toriyama explains where Kaio and Kaioshin come from in completely new information though.

Of course Kami (forgive my dub spelling) is the god of earth, or at least until Dende comes around to fill in.

"Kami" is actually exactly what the character's name is, not a dub spell, "kami" being the Japanese word for "god". In Japanese Kami is often referred to as "Kami-sama" ("Lord God"), but the sama/lord isn't an essential part of his name, just a term of respect that almost everyone adds on because, well, he's God. But people who have no respect for him (like Piccolo or Garlic Jr.), or people who outrank him (like Kaio) leave the "sama" off.

The thing about Kami is that "Kami" is his job title (he's chikyuu no kami/God of Earth), not his actual name. When Dende takes over, he becomes the new Kami of Earth. What complicates this is that we don't know what Kami's real name actually is (after he and Piccolo fuse, the new being says that he's a Namekian who has forgotten his true name), so we have nothing else to call him but "Kami".

[B]

Isn't Kami "Son of Kattatz," but that's too long so everyone called him Kami? Did the dub subvert this or just ignore it?

They may be separate characters, I don't know.

[Bussani]

Isn't Kami "Son of Kattatz," but that's too long so everyone called him Kami? Did the dub subvert this or just ignore it?

They may be separate characters, I don't know.

Are you asking why he's called Kami in the dub? The dub never mentions that it means God or is a title or anything. But technically I think the Son of Kattatz is the Namekian before he split into Kami and Daimao.

[B]

Okay, so the Son of Kattatz splits into two, but only his evil side, Piccolo, was given a name. Okay.

[Senzu_Bean]

Kami's real name is only that "The Son of Kattatz".

[Herms]

Isn't Kami "Son of Kattatz," but that's too long so everyone called him Kami? Did the dub subvert this or just ignore it?

Well, he is the child of Katattsu, but that's not his name, just as Gohan's name isn't "Son of Goku".

[TheGreatness25]

I was under the impression that Kami's real name was Piccolo. He split in two, one definitely being called Piccolo. Well why would the second be called Piccolo if that wasn't his real name? And why would the ship's password be "Piccolo"?

[Acid_Reign]

Gah, I wish Toriyama would give him a name. But, if Mr. Satan is any indication, it’d probably end up being something like “Sue”.

[Olivier Hague]

I was under the impression that Kami's real name was Piccolo. He split in two, one definitely being called Piccolo. Well why would the second be called Piccolo if that wasn't his real name? And why would the ship's password be "Piccolo"?

That's the thing: "Piccolo" is the ship's password, not a name.
It would appear the guy's evil half decided to name himself after the password, that's all.

[Super Ghost Kamikaze]

Gah, I wish Toriyama would give him a name. But, if Mr. Satan is any indication, it’d probably end up being something like “Sue”.

Considering "Mark" was only to take advantage of an akuma pun, I doubt it.

Now, what is it that the start of the Namek story arc say about Piccolo's name? It's a word in the Namekian language, and it's used as a voice command to the crashed ship.

Wasn't the meaning "Another World"? Can we assume that "Piccolo" is a name that the lost Namekian gave himself, that he then dropped after expunging his evil? Or is it said that Piccolo gave himself that name out of some subconscious link to his heritage?

[Saiyan-Professor]

Isn't Kami "Son of Kattatz," but that's too long so everyone called him Kami? Did the dub subvert this or just ignore it?

Well, he is the child of Katattsu, but that's not his name, just as Gohan's name isn't "Son of Goku".

What is the name “Katattsu” a play on?

Gah, I wish Toriyama would give him a name. But, if Mr. Satan is any indication, it’d probably end up being something like “Sue”.

Looks as if someone has been listening to Johnny Cash, and his song “A Boy Named Sue”, if someone corners Toriyama again they should inquire of Piccolo’s real name in light of this finding out Mr. Satan’s was a waste of time.

[Herms]

Gah, I wish Toriyama would give him a name. But, if Mr. Satan is any indication, it’d probably end up being something like “Sue”.

In addition to the whole akuma pun thing, keep in mind that Mark (or Sue for that matter) aren't exactly ordinary names from a Japanese person's perspective.

Wasn't the meaning "Another World"? Can we assume that "Piccolo" is a name that the lost Namekian gave himself, that he then dropped after expunging his evil? Or is it said that Piccolo gave himself that name out of some subconscious link to his heritage?

Yeah, it means "another/different world". The reason why it's the password for the ship being apparently because you use the ship when you want to go to another world. Based on this, Bulma says that "Piccolo Daimao" would therefore mean "Great Demon King of Another World", although this involves mixing Japanese and Namekian, which is kind of odd.

What is the name “Katattsu” a play on?

It comes from katatsumuri, one of the Japanese words for snail.

[Acid_Reign]

Gah, I wish Toriyama would give him a name. But, if Mr. Satan is any indication, it’d probably end up being something like “Sue”.

Considering "Mark" was only to take advantage of an akuma pun, I doubt it.

It was a joke…

Looks as if someone has been listening to Johnny Cash, and his song “A Boy Named Sue”, if someone corners Toriyama again they should inquire of Piccolo’s real name in light of this inding out Mr. Satan’s was a waste of time.

Last time I checked, Namekians did not have genders! But yes, I agree; I would like to hear T-sama sort this all out…

In addition to the whole akuma pun thing, keep in mind that Mark (or Sue for that matter) aren't exactly ordinary names from a Japanese person's perspective.

Yes, I’m aware of that; it’s just rather anticlimactic for a name that’s been kept secret for over a decade. Pun or not, I don’t think anybody saw that one coming. And especially with all the hubbub (on this side of the globe at least) about his name “really” being “Hercule”.

Yeah, it means "another/different world". The reason why it's the password for the ship being apparently because you use the ship when you want to go to another world. Based on this, Bulma says that "Piccolo Daimao" would therefore mean "Great Demon King of Another World", although this involves mixing Japanese and Namekian, which is kind of odd.

It could just be that Japanese (or whatever language the dub/translation happens to be) is not literally spoken, but merely represents universal language(s) that exist(s) in their world. At least, that is how I explain most stories with foreigners that inexplicably understand each other (the reality of course being that save Tolkien, most authors do not have the patience to invent a language every time a story involves fantasy creatures).

[Dayspring]

Is Karin considered a being from the afterlife (like Popo) or is he from Earth like the Kami normally are?

Just to expand on this thread, if you consider Dr Slump as part of the Dragonball world, we learn that there's another kind of Kami, one who has the same authority and powers as regular Kami, except his territory is all over the Milky Way (which is either part or all of the Northern Galaxy). I wonder if he'd be considered Kaio's equivalent of Karin?

[Lpfreak]

Just to expand on this thread, if you consider Dr Slump as part of the Dragonball world, we learn that there's another kind of Kami, one who has the same authority and powers as regular Kami, except his territory is all over the Milky Way (which is either part or all of the Northern Galaxy). I wonder if he'd be considered Kaio's equivalent of Karin?

Oh really? Wow, now I have some more questions. What other relevances towards Dr. Slump is there from Dragonball? Are there Kais and different Kamis in Dr. Slump as well?

[Herms]

Is Karin considered a being from the afterlife (like Popo) or is he from Earth like the Kami normally are?

Daiz 7 and SEG say he's one of the God of Earth's assistants from the afterlife, like Mister Popo is.

Oh really? Wow, now I have some more questions. What other relevances towards Dr. Slump is there from Dragonball? Are there Kais and different Kamis in Dr. Slump as well?

The only god seen in Dr. Slump is the God (Kami-sama again) who sent Gacchan to Earth. He says he's in charge of the galaxy (which should really be Kaio's gig, going by DragonBall). He looks exactly like Kame-sennin does, only without sunglasses (Toriyama said in one of the Q&A corners that he liked the design for Dr. Slump's God so much that he reused it for Kame-sennin), and flies around on a little flight mecha.

Oh, and there's also Enma Daio, who appears one time when the afterlife is shown. He looks pretty similiar to the Enma Daio in DB. Enma Daio is a figure from Buddhism (and originally Hinduism, as Yamma), so he appears in a lot of manga and anime as the judge of the dead, including Yu Yu Hakusho (where he also looks pretty similiar to how he's shown in Slump and DB; there's sort of a common conception of how he looks).