What's your in-story explanation for the android difference?

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Sun Jun 21, 2009 12:55 pm

So the Daizenshuu 7 item bio for the stasis pods states that the tubes connected to them exert an evil influence on the androids inside. In other words, tubing is the official explanation as to why the androids are more cruel in Trunks' timeline. On top of being incredible lame, this obviously also doesn't explain why they're weaker, and why #16, #19, and #20 don't exist in that timeline. So what's your explanation for all these changes? Here's mine:

It's all a result of a Goku being alive in the manga's timeline. Essentially, Gero will make the decision between 764 and 767 to turn himself into an android in order to kill Goku himself. Needing someone to turn him into an android, he creates #19 first. Meanwhile, in the timeline Trunks comes from, Gero would no longer have this motivation as Goku is dead. Thus, #19 and #20 won't come to be in that timeline.

Instead, Gero will spend those three years doing as he originally planned, which was to repare #16, #17, and #18. In that time, he will realize it isn't possible to fix #16 as he wants, and decides to scrap him as he did #s 9-15. As for #17 and #18, the modifications he makes to them will result in their being weaker and insane.

Terra-jin · Post by **Terra-jin** » Sun Jun 21, 2009 1:12 pm

I always thought those changes were due to some subtle influence that Cell had; whereas the shifted timing of Goku's disease was due to Trunks' (arguably less-)subtle interference.

Gero might've "felt" Cell arriving and, not knowing exactly what to make of it, altered his decisions slightly, leading up to the different events of the main timeline. Perhaps he was just about to test 17 and 18 when he got this strange feeling... "oh, well I can test them later. First let's improve their power supplies and their personalities. And turn myself in a cyborg while I'm at it."

Post by **Herms** » Sun Jun 21, 2009 1:22 pm

Uh, by "bad influence" Daizenshuu 7 means that it's not good for the androids inside the capsules if the tubes are cut. This is mentioned in the manga: after Trunks blows up Gero's lab, 17 tells 18 (or visa-versa) to quickly open 16's capsule, since they had to cut the tubes to get it away from the blast. The idea is that the androids will die or break or something if the tubes are cut, not that it turns them evil.

Shenron · Post by **Shenron** » Sun Jun 21, 2009 2:23 pm

C17 and C18 were humans in the beginning. Maybe in Trunks' timeline, he didn't activate them in such a hurry and he had more time to brainwash or reprogram them, or something like that.

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Sun Jun 21, 2009 2:32 pm

Herms wrote:Uh, by "bad influence" Daizenshuu 7 means that it's not good for the androids inside the capsules if the tubes are cut. This is mentioned in the manga: after Trunks blows up Gero's lab, 17 tells 18 (or visa-versa) to quickly open 16's capsule, since they had to cut the tubes to get it away from the blast. The idea is that the androids will die or break or something if the tubes are cut, not that it turns them evil.

Could you please double-check the entry for me? In the French version it says "It would seem the tubes that are connected to these hibernation capsules exert an evil influence on the behaviour of the future androids." Or "future behaviour of the androids" depending how you read it.

Either way, it's not quite refering to the cutting resulting in their deaths (though I agree the manga flat out states this).

Puto · Post by **Puto** » Sun Jun 21, 2009 3:06 pm

Didn't Toriyama state somewhere that when Goku killed Freeza in Trunks' timeline, he let his goons go, one of which would go and kill #17 and #18's parents (therefore causing them to become sociopaths)?

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Sun Jun 21, 2009 4:31 pm

Puto wrote:Didn't Toriyama state somewhere that when Goku killed Freeza in Trunks' timeline, he let his goons go, one of which would go and kill #17 and #18's parents (therefore causing them to become sociopaths)?

Comments like this seem to be the only source though.

Post by **Herms** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 2:28 am

Dayspring wrote:Could you please double-check the entry for me? In the French version it says "It would seem the tubes that are connected to these hibernation capsules exert an evil influence on the behaviour of the future androids." Or "future behaviour of the androids" depending how you read it.

Either way, it's not quite refering to the cutting resulting in their deaths (though I agree the manga flat out states this).

The line in the Japanese Daizenshuu 7 is this: "Though the reason isn't given, if the pipes are cut, it has a bad effect on the android inside". Nothing at all about the future androids. It seems the French translation really screwed the entry up.

Innagadadavida · Post by **Innagadadavida** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 2:36 am

Dayspring wrote:So the Daizenshuu 7 item bio for the stasis pods states that the tubes connected to them exert an evil influence on the androids inside. In other words, tubing is the official explanation as to why the androids are more cruel in Trunks' timeline. On top of being incredible lame, this obviously also doesn't explain why they're weaker, and why #16, #19, and #20 don't exist in that timeline.

"The evil is a series of tubes. And if you don't understand, those tubes can be filled and if they are filled, when you put your evil in, it gets in line and it's going to be delayed by anyone that puts into that tube enormous amounts of evil, enormous amounts of evil."

Anyway, Dayspring, your explanation is really good and it works... Well, maybe... Didn't Gero stop following Goku right before he left for Namek? If so, wouldn't he have not known about Goku's death?

Olivier Hague · Post by **Olivier Hague** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 4:09 am

Herms wrote:The line in the Japanese Daizenshuu 7 is this: "Though the reason isn't given, if the pipes are cut, it has a bad effect on the android inside". Nothing at all about the future androids. It seems the French translation really screwed the entry up.

Gee, that'd sure be a first!
Thank you for debunking this, Herms.

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 11:15 pm

Olivier Hague wrote:
Herms wrote:The line in the Japanese Daizenshuu 7 is this: "Though the reason isn't given, if the pipes are cut, it has a bad effect on the android inside". Nothing at all about the future androids. It seems the French translation really screwed the entry up.
Gee, that'd sure be a first!
Thank you for debunking this, Herms.

In all fairness, the French version has always been leaps and bounds better than the English version. Plus I have first editions; they got a lot better over the years.

Anyhoo, thanks Herms!

Anonymous Friend · Post by **Anonymous Friend** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 8:59 am

I've always been under the impression that without Goku and his crew on his trail, Gero went back to his hideout and continued to tinker with 17 & 18, and possible scrap 16. This additional meddling and influence is what caused their personalities to become what it was.

Regarding their decreased power, this can be attributed to Gero fears of them disobeying him and possibly killing him resulting in him adjusting their power ... OR ... The alternate future andriods were just not using their full capabilities because there was no need to.

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 9:18 am

Anonymous Friend wrote:OR ... The alternate future andriods were just not using their full capabilities because there was no need to.

This could be the case. In the manga when Future Gohan confronts 17 and tells him that he's been training, 17 reveals that he wasn't even using half his strength when he beat him last time. Next thing we know, Gohan's dead. Maybe Trunks just never saw their full power himself.

Post by **Herms** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 9:34 am

I don't know. Bulma tells Trunks that "I don’t think you’re that amazingly different than Gohan-kun was then…", implying that Trunks is stronger than Gohan was, but not by enough to matter (Viz has this as "Do you really think you’re any stronger than he was then?", making this point less clear). So Trunks would be just as likely as Gohan to find out that the androids were previously only using less than 50% of their power.

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 12:38 am

Herms wrote:I don't know. Bulma tells Trunks that "I don’t think you’re that amazingly different than Gohan-kun was then…", implying that Trunks is stronger than Gohan was, but not by enough to matter (Viz has this as "Do you really think you’re any stronger than he was then?", making this point less clear). So Trunks would be just as likely as Gohan to find out that the androids were previously only using less than 50% of their power.

Well, it's true that he would have as much of a chance of finding out they had been holding back, but if he's only a bit stronger than Gohan was and they hadn't killed him, they could still have been holding back, couldn't they? Unless Gohan's training before facing 17 had really closed the gap between himself and their full power.

Kanzenshuu

What's your in-story explanation for the android difference?

What's your in-story explanation for the android difference?

Re: What's your in-story explanation for the android differe