A dreadful question... (Broli/SSJ2)

CashmanX · Post by **CashmanX** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 2:49 pm

I'm sorry, but, really, how powerful is Broly?

We all know he can't compete with a ssj2, Yet how would he fair against say, Full-power complete Cell?

RoarkVegeta · Post by **RoarkVegeta** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 2:51 pm

CashmanX wrote:I'm sorry, but, really, how powerful is Broly?
We all know he can't compete with a ssj2, Yet how would he fair against say, Full-power complete Cell?

You mean Super Kanzentai Cell? Fairly well. Super Saiya-jin Gohan was a flee to Broly. And he was "OK" against Cell. Who knows..

smiley · Post by **smiley** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 2:55 pm

As I hear, the Daizenshuu supposedly says Gohan was a Ssj2 against Broly.

Is this true?

Post by **Herms** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 3:01 pm

smiley wrote:Is this true?

No.

Saiyavenger2941 · Post by **Saiyavenger2941** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 3:31 pm

I'm willing to say he's about the same as Stage 3 Trunks. I mean, their transformations look so similar, what with the uberbulk and pupilless eyes, that I'd say their powers are in the same range, Trunks being a little better due to his mixed-heritage.

Amigo Ten · Post by **Amigo Ten** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 3:47 pm

smiley wrote:As I hear, the Daizenshuu supposedly says Gohan was a Ssj2 against Broly.

Is this true?

I'd heard it was some Toei guidebook that said that.

Post by **Herms** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 4:11 pm

Amigo Ten wrote:I'd heard it was some Toei guidebook that said that.

There's no guidebook that says that as far as I know.

Amigo Ten · Post by **Amigo Ten** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 4:16 pm

Must just be one of those rumours then. I see it brought up whenever this topic arises that Toei confirmed Gohan was SSJ2 in movie 10.

Amigo Ten · Post by **Amigo Ten** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 4:28 pm

As for the topic, I'd say in movie 8 he's in between Perfect Cell and SSJ Gohan at the Cell Games.

In movie 10, a little stronger than SSJ2 Gohan (yeah I think he was SSJ2 during that brief struggle before they flew into the lava).

But whatever his power, he appears to have extraordinary endurance.

JulieYBM · Post by **JulieYBM** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 4:39 pm

If we go by Sparking METEOR, where adult SSj Gohan's ultimate is the Bros. KameHame-Ha, then Broli still wound up killed by two beaten up Super Saiyans, a normal form Trunks, and Videl, strength gathered via words by their pappy.

Pain · Post by **Pain** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 5:21 pm

Saiyavenger2941 wrote:I'm willing to say he's about the same as Stage 3 Trunks. I mean, their transformations look so similar, what with the uberbulk and pupilless eyes, that I'd say their powers are in the same range, Trunks being a little better due to his mixed-heritage.

No, I'd say Broly would have the advantage. Trunks 3rd Stage had a major weakness. He couldn't move at a speed that would help him keep up with any major villains. But, Broly, though he is even bigger, was faster than the Z Senshi, during their "battle"(Can I even call it that?).

Saiyavenger2941 · Post by **Saiyavenger2941** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 5:26 pm

Pain wrote:
Saiyavenger2941 wrote:I'm willing to say he's about the same as Stage 3 Trunks. I mean, their transformations look so similar, what with the uberbulk and pupilless eyes, that I'd say their powers are in the same range, Trunks being a little better due to his mixed-heritage.
No, I'd say Broly would have the advantage. Trunks 3rd Stage had a major weakness. He couldn't move at a speed that would help him keep up with any major villains. But, Broly, though he is even bigger, was faster than the Z Senshi, during their "battle"(Can I even call it that?).

It's that damned spandex!

Conan the SSJ · Post by **Conan the SSJ** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 5:51 pm

JulieYBM wrote:If we go by Sparking METEOR, where adult SSj Gohan's ultimate is the Bros. KameHame-Ha, then Broli still wound up killed by two beaten up Super Saiyans, a normal form Trunks, and Videl, strength gathered via words by their pappy.

You ignore a fully powered SSJ Goku? Yes, his presence is ambiguous, but I like to think he did truly return and lent a strong enough hand for his sons to overpower Broli. In movie 11 at least, it's shown that Goten and Trunks still believe Goku really came back, so that helps confirm to me it was really him.

JulieYBM · Post by **JulieYBM** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 5:56 pm

Conan the SSJ wrote:
JulieYBM wrote:If we go by Sparking METEOR, where adult SSj Gohan's ultimate is the Bros. KameHame-Ha, then Broli still wound up killed by two beaten up Super Saiyans, a normal form Trunks, and Videl, strength gathered via words by their pappy.
You ignore a fully powered SSJ Goku? Yes, his presence is ambiguous, but I like to think he did truly return and lent a strong enough hand for his sons to overpower Broli. In movie 11 at least, it's shown that Goten and Trunks still believe Goku really came back, so that helps confirm to me it was really him.

I don't know if he did or didn't return, but as it as I remember he wasn't completely solid. I figured it was more or less him giving them reassurance, but who knows...

Saiyavenger2941 · Post by **Saiyavenger2941** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 6:02 pm

JulieYBM wrote:
Conan the SSJ wrote:
JulieYBM wrote:If we go by Sparking METEOR, where adult SSj Gohan's ultimate is the Bros. KameHame-Ha, then Broli still wound up killed by two beaten up Super Saiyans, a normal form Trunks, and Videl, strength gathered via words by their pappy.
You ignore a fully powered SSJ Goku? Yes, his presence is ambiguous, but I like to think he did truly return and lent a strong enough hand for his sons to overpower Broli. In movie 11 at least, it's shown that Goten and Trunks still believe Goku really came back, so that helps confirm to me it was really him.
I don't know if he did or didn't return, but as it as I remember he wasn't completely solid. I figured it was more or less him giving them reassurance, but who knows...

I see it more as "Gohan and Goten getting an ounce of glory? FUCK THAT NOISE!".

SparkyPantsMcGee · Post by **SparkyPantsMcGee** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 6:41 pm

When it comes to Broly's Strength I always viewed it like Vegetto's Super Saiyan. Now before you flip, I don't think he was that strong but its possible he was as strong as a SSJ2 at his Super Saiyan form(if you see where I'm getting at).

Perhaps Broly was Super Saiyan in the 3rd ascended form before reaching SSj2. Fast and Powerful but not quiet a super Saiyan 2. Has just enough power to take out cell but wouldn't last past his truly perfect form.

Up against Perfect Cell I'd say Broly has a chance at winning. Broly fought Gohan as a Super Saiyan and he was a rag doll for Broly's expense. When Gohan fought cell as a super Saiyan, he was losing but he did stand a chance.

I'd assume Gohan could go SSJ2 then because they were out of the Hyperbolic time chamber and I don't think Gohan achieved the needed power level outside. Cell would have noticed if he did.

NeptuneKai · Post by **NeptuneKai** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 7:50 pm

I think he's a little stronger then SSJ Vegerot.

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 8:03 pm

For some reason, I've done some figuring for Broly's power.

Movie 8
Contrary to popular belief, the heroes in this movie are not necessarily their Cell Games selves. Unless I'm mistaken, the movie was written and produced before the Cell Games had happened in the manga. The writers wouldn't, and apparently didn't, have any idea how to scale the powers.

In the Cell Games, there were large and obvious gaps in the heroes' power. Gohan was stronger than Goku. Goku was A LOT stronger than Vegeta. Vegeta was about as strong, or maybe a little stronger than Trunks. And all the Super Saiyans were much, much stronger than Piccolo.

In movie 8 though, this isn't the case. All the Super Saiyans were shown as more or less even with each other. The exception, of course, was Goku with his typical "Toei power-up." But even then he got beaten up by Broly just as badly as anyone else. What's more, Piccolo was actually keeping up with the Super Saiyans rather well. Lastly, nobody shows any signs of using their "special" Super Saiyan stages that the later Cell arcs were full of.

It's as if everyone just stopped their training in the Room of Spirit and Time halfway through. They're more powerful than they were against the Androids, but they haven't really made any breakthroughs. Especially not for Goku and Gohan.

Even if this was just a guess as to how powerful they'd be, the heroes in movie 8 are not portrayed being as powerful as they were in the Cell Games. This helps movie 10 make a bit more sense as well, and I'll get to that.

So who do I think LSSj Broly compares to in the series? Perfect Cell... with the power he was using to beat on Vegeta and Trunks. Which was probably like... HALF his full power, if that.

Movie 10

First important thing to note is a certain line from Gohan. The Gohan in this movie is, by comparison to the series, his early Buu-arc self. He's a "Full-Power Super Saiyan," but hasn't improved since the Cell Games 7 years ago.

When he's fighting Broly in this one, he gets annoyed that Broly's giving him so much trouble, saying that, "and here I'm supposed to have powered up considerably since then!" 'Then' meaning, "the last time I fought Broly."

So Movie 10 Gohan is far more powerful than Movie 8 Gohan. However, Movie 10 Gohan was not any more powerful than Cell Games Gohan. Therefore, Movie 8 Gohan must be much weaker than Cell Games Gohan.

This means that Broly has become much more powerful as well. He's capable of beating up a Full-Power Super Saiyan.

He did not, however, beat up on any Super Saiyan 2s. There were no verbal hints or visual signs that Gohan was using anything more than Super Saiyan. This is in-character for Gohan anyway, since we saw how hard a time he had using it, possibly through his own reluctance, in the Buu arc.

So how strong do I think Movie 10 Broly is? Perfect Cell's full power.

JulieYBM · Post by **JulieYBM** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:01 pm

That sounds well-thoughout, although it makes me wonder what Toei was thinking when they wrote the tenth film. I really wish there would be an official source to settle this (akin to the Dabra situation).

Conan the SSJ · Post by **Conan the SSJ** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 10:15 pm

JulieYBM wrote:I don't know if he did or didn't return, but as it as I remember he wasn't completely solid. I figured it was more or less him giving them reassurance, but who knows...

He appears to become fully corporeal as he descends to the ground, we also see & hear him land, and he's as visible as anyone when he stands next to Gohan and Goten. Goku's attack clearly merges with theirs, plus Broli sees him as well, so it isn't just Gohan and Goten hallucinating. Trunks strongly implies in movie 11 that he too sensed and saw Goku help his boys defeat Broli, which Goten agrees with, so I think it's a clear matter that it was truly Goku. From my point of view; the Dragonballs granted a wish to Goten, hence why they separate, though it was more a partial wish due to Shenlong not showing up and the balls probably not becoming stone.

Kanzenshuu

A dreadful question... (Broli/SSJ2)

A dreadful question... (Broli/SSJ2)

Re: A dreadful Question...