Episode #0193 (11 October 2009)

Post by **VegettoEX** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 12:05 pm

Episode #0193 (download MP3) (rss feed)
98:01; 64 kbps, mono; 44.8 MB

Episode #0193! VegettoEX, Meri, Julian, and Jeff all dive into Volume 30 in our "Manga Review of Awesomeness". It's another volume full of exposition, but is Toriyama pulling it all together in a coherent fashion, or are there too many characters doing too many things? Lengthy commentary on FUNimation's final details for their own Dragon Box audio tracks and the manga being pulled from a Maryland school library round out the rest of the episode, with a little bit of releases and e-mails to finish it off. Referenced sites:

RoarkVegeta · Post by **RoarkVegeta** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 12:10 pm

Son of a bitch. I deleted all my podcasts to put some music on there, and you put this up. --;

Just joking. Sound's good. *downloads*

EDIT: Is it just me, or is it totally silent for the first 15 seconds? And no "This is Daizenshuu EX The Podcast" thing.

Post by **VegettoEX** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 12:20 pm

RoarkVegeta wrote:Son of a bitch. I deleted all my podcasts to put some music on there, and you put this up. --;

Just joking. Sound's good. *downloads*

EDIT: Is it just me, or is it totally silent for the first 15 seconds? And no "This is Daizenshuu EX The Podcast" thing.

Gah. Fixing. Will re-upload when I have the opportunity. Won't be any time soon.

EDIT: Fixed and re-uploaded to my temp space until godofchaos swaps it over. Good to go whenever you all want to grab it, regardless of the link. Replace it iTunes already grabbed it for you.

The Tori-bot · Post by **The Tori-bot** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 1:11 pm

Just a little note...

October 13, 2006.

Mike must watch the entirety of GT within three years.

Or Meri kicks him in the shins.

You have very little time left.

I'd start watching if I were you.

That is all.

RoarkVegeta · Post by **RoarkVegeta** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 1:14 pm

The Tori-bot wrote:Just a little note...

October 13, 2006.

Mike must watch the entirety of GT within three years.

Or Meri kicks him in the shins.

You have very little time left.

I'd start watching if I were you.

That is all.

Your avatar fits that message SO well. XP

JulieYBM · Post by **JulieYBM** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 1:47 pm

Totally agree on the 'monster' arc. This part of the series always has this incredible feeling, it's so hard to describe. I really wish it could have lasted.

mysteriousdbzgt · Post by **mysteriousdbzgt** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 1:55 pm

Great manga review, I love this volume because of the story build up.

JulieYBM · Post by **JulieYBM** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 2:07 pm

What, they left Wakamoto out?!

CHIKUSHOUUUUUUUUUUUUU!!! CHIKUSHOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I feel much better.

EDIT: What, no mech-men joke this episode?

EDIT 2: There's that mecha-men joke!!

Big Boss · Post by **Big Boss** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 2:39 pm

Mike:"I believe it was a four-year old who picked volume 1 of the manga in--

Julian:"What...."

SparkyPantsMcGee · Post by **SparkyPantsMcGee** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 2:47 pm

Holy crap that was an amazing podcast! As it stands right now, it has become my favorite. Nice work Mike.

Shiyonasan · Post by **Shiyonasan** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 3:39 pm

You should've split this episode into two podcasts, Mike. Good grief....

You know, I never knew that's what "graphic novel" meant. You learn something new every day.

Ah, Volume 30! The first volume to premiere after I was born. Hard to believe you guys are only 12 volumes, 1 year, from the end of The Reviews of Awesomeness.

YouTube · Post by **Hujio** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 3:57 pm

Shiyonasan wrote:You know, I never knew that's what "graphic novel" meant. You learn something new every day.

Can we get a clarification on what exactly you think "graphic novel" means, because during most of that conversation they were being facetious? Or were you being sarcastic? I just want to make sure you're on the same page.

Shiyonasan · Post by **Shiyonasan** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 3:59 pm

Hujio wrote:
Shiyonasan wrote:You know, I never knew that's what "graphic novel" meant. You learn something new every day.
Can we get a clarification on what exactly you think "graphic novel" means, because during most of that conversation they were being facetious? Or were you being sarcastic? I just want to make sure you're on the same page.

Were they really being sarcastic? I thought they were serious!

B · Post by B » Mon Oct 12, 2009 4:32 pm

Shiyonasan wrote:
Hujio wrote:
Shiyonasan wrote:You know, I never knew that's what "graphic novel" meant. You learn something new every day.
Can we get a clarification on what exactly you think "graphic novel" means, because during most of that conversation they were being facetious? Or were you being sarcastic? I just want to make sure you're on the same page.
Were they really being sarcastic? I thought they were serious!

"Graphic" comes from the word "graph," which describes pictures. The Dragon Ball manga has pictures in it.
A "novel" is a long narrative. Dragon Ball told the story of Son Goku for 11 years(in-universe for 30-something years).

YouTube · Post by **Hujio** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 4:34 pm

Shiyonasan wrote:Were they really being sarcastic? I thought they were serious!

Yeah, I'd have to re-listen to that, but from what I remember Mike mentioned that some of the people complaining were saying that the "graphic" in "graphic novel" means they are of a graphic nature (i.e. blood, gore, offensive, etc...). Actually, the term graphic in this case refers to the story being drawn, rather than only written. You know, pictures, images, graphics... and it's a novel. Therefore... Graphic Novel. I will say, there has been some debate about the use of the term, as some say it has just become more of a marketing term than anything else. I tend to agree with this argument, since I've never liked the term to begin with. In fact, I'll go as far as saying I hate it, but I think Robin Williams put it best, "'Is that a comic book? No! It's a graphic novel! Is that porn? No! It's adult entertainment!"

Post by **Herms** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 5:18 pm

Hujio wrote:I will say, there has been some debate about the use of the term, as some say it has just become more of a marketing term than anything else. I tend to agree with this argument, since I've never liked the term to begin with. In fact, I'll go as far as saying I hate it, but I think Robin Williams put it best, "'Is that a comic book? No! It's a graphic novel! Is that porn? No! It's adult entertainment!"

If I remember correctly. Will Eisner coined the term "graphic novel" when trying to sell A Contract With God to a publisher, because he thought that the publisher wouldn't be interested if he just called it a comic book.

Just started listening to the podcast. It occurs to me that due to this last-minute technical trouble, this MRA was delayed not merely a week and/or month, but in fact a month, a week, and a day.

YouTube · Post by **Hujio** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 5:37 pm

Yeah, you're right. Will Eisner was the first one to use the term, and after that it become rather popular amongst artist who were trying to get their comics published. This may be one reason why I don't like, it's just a marketing ploy. Besides that, manga itself sometimes falls within the category of being graphic novels, while at other points it doesn't. Some people just don't understand the difference between all these different names (comics, graphic novels, manga, tankoubon, etc...). I've always thought it'd make more sense to just use "comic" to denote the comic is from the U.S., while "manga" would denote the comic is from Japan. On top of that, you run into confusion problems at stores. My local Borders has a "Manga" section, and right next to it is the "Other Graphic Novels" section. So are the manga the other graphic novels, or are there some other graphic novels somewhere else in the store? The problem is there's just really no solution, unless people start using the same terms. I mean, some artists and writers have started using other terms (illustrated novel, picture novella, comic-strip novel, etc...) on purpose to avoid using the term "Graphic Novel" altogether because they don't like it, which further confuses some people.

I guess I'll throw this out there, since it may explain my perception on this topic. Could it be that growing up there was such a distinction between comics (X-men, Spider-man, Superman, etc...) and manga (Akira, DragonBall, Appleseed, etc...)? I mean, we didn't really get manga until anime became popular. Most people that were into anime didn't even know that their favorite show was based off of a comic. Does anyone else feel the same?

Shiyonasan · Post by **Shiyonasan** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 6:04 pm

Hujio wrote:
Shiyonasan wrote:Were they really being sarcastic? I thought they were serious!
Yeah, I'd have to re-listen to that, but from what I remember Mike mentioned that some of the people complaining were saying that the "graphic" in "graphic novel" means they are of a graphic nature (i.e. blood, gore, offensive, etc...). Actually, the term graphic in this case refers to the story being drawn, rather than only written. You know, pictures, images, graphics... and it's a novel. Therefore... Graphic Novel. I will say, there has been some debate about the use of the term, as some say it has just become more of a marketing term than anything else. I tend to agree with this argument, since I've never liked the term to begin with. In fact, I'll go as far as saying I hate it, but I think Robin Williams put it best, "'Is that a comic book? No! It's a graphic novel! Is that porn? No! It's adult entertainment!"

That's what I thought it meant.

Sometimes when I listen to the podcast, I do other things on the internet at the same time and don't really pay attention to what they're saying.

Hujio wrote:Yeah, you're right. Will Eisner was the first one to use the term, and after that it become rather popular amonst artist who were trying to get their comics published. This may be one reason why I don't like, it's just a marketing ploy. Besides that, manga itself sometimes falls within the category of being graphic novels, while at other points it doesn't. Some people just don't understand the difference between all these different names (comics, graphic novels, manga, tankoubon, etc...). I've always thought it'd make more sense to just use "comic" to denote the comic is from the U.S., while "manga" would denote the comic is from Japan. On top of that, you run into confusion problems at stores. My local Borders has a "Manga" section, and right next to it is the "Other Graphic Novels" section. So are the manga the other graphic novels, or are there some other graphic novels somewhere else in the store? The problem is there's just really no solution, unless people start using the same terms. I mean, some artists and writers have started using other terms (illustrated novel, picture novella, comic-strip novel, etc...) on purpose to avoid using the term "Graphic Novel" altogether because they don't like it, which further confuses some people.

Some of the stores I go to actually do have manga under graphic novel, which is kind of confusing. I don't really mind the term myself. As for the term, "manga", I think it's actually necessary like you said because manga is different from American comics. In fact, in my local Hastings, they have a small section for "Young Graphic Novel Readers", which does have graphic novels for young readers, but it also has manga from VizKids. Those obviously aren't graphic novels, but I guess some people don't see the difference.

Post by **Herms** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 7:05 pm

You guys refer to Goku at the start of the series as 14, when he’s actually 12, despite what he originally thought. Though it is probable that Toriyama originally drew him intending that he be 14, before changing his mind. There’s this great line during the 21st Tenkaichi Budoukai after Goku says he’s actually 12; Bulma says that she knew he couldn’t really have been 14, because he didn’t have any hair “down there” (Viz changes this, natch).

I was actually debating whether or not to include the “you won’t ask for directions” line in my notes, since it is pretty minor. But I felt justified since you specifically mentioned it any wondered if it were a Viz-ism or not.

penguintruth · Post by **penguintruth** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 7:16 pm

I love how parents don't take enough time to read what their children are reading. Just looking at a few of the pictures and deciding it's "porn" is not that. I think anyone who actually reads the story of Dragon Ball will realize it's not pornography. Or, at least I'm fairly confident they wouldn't.

It's not like Japanese children are growing up to be sex fiends in large droves. The sex crimes rate in Japan is much lower than that of the United States'.

It is funny that the parent went to a politician, not to the librarian. And the politician is trying to make a name for himself. Bunch of hysteria.

On the subject of the manga review, the Androids/Cell arc is my favorite arc in Dragon Ball/Z, because it is the best written one by far. Now, the villains don't seem to me as interesting as maybe Freeza, or Vegeta, but the twists and turns are great, the time travel part is approached creatively, the action doesn't get drawn out too far, and characters who dropped out of revelence become somewhat relevant again. And it gets better and better, especially when the Cell Games comes around.

I love that "I'm neither Kami nor Piccolo, but a Namekian who has long forgotten his name" quote. So awesome.