Multiple significant 'how did' questions

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Multiple significant 'how did' questions

Post by Ultimate DBZ » Sat Nov 21, 2009 12:00 pm

In one of the Tenkaichi Budokai from Dragon Ball, Master Roshi blew up the moon while Goku was a Great Ape so he would return back to his normal human self. However, in DBZ Episode #8, there was a moon that Gohan looked at and was able to transform. Piccolo then blew up the moon (again) so Gohan would turn to his normal self. So, if Master Roshi blew up the entire moon, how could there still a moon in DBZ?

My next question is from Episode #2: how did Master Roshi know that Goku banged his head as a child and was originally in a space pod? And why didn't he say anything when he first met him? Lastly, when did Goku, Gohan, Krillin, and everyone else learn how to fly?

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Post by VegettoEX » Sat Nov 21, 2009 12:28 pm

When we last see Chibi Goku in chapter 165, he still has his tail. I know at some point later on he makes some off-hand remark about Kami-sama removing his tail because he wanted the moon back... or something like that. One would assume it's well within a Kami's power to bring back a moon, at least.

Part of being a wise old master is that you do not divulge information until it is wholly necessary. Also, Toriyama didn't know that Goku was an alien until he wrote it and had to figure out how to write OUT of it.

Everyone else (at least some of them) learned to fly between the 22nd and 23rd Tenka-ichi Budokai, presumably. It's right there in the series. Kuririn doesn't fall to the ground during his fight with Piccolo because he uses Bukujutsu, and Goku actually defeats Piccolo (despite his entirely-broken body) because he flies in with a headbutt. Remember -- everyone was pretty impressed with Tenshinhan and Chiaotzu's ability to fly at the 22nd, so it stands to reason that they worked on it shortly there-after.
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Post by Tyro » Sat Nov 21, 2009 1:14 pm

VegettoEX wrote:Goku actually defeats Piccolo (despite his entirely-broken body) because he flies in with a headbutt.
Not only that, Goku actually learned Bukujutsu while fighting Piccolo.

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Re: Multiple significant 'how did' questions

Post by Herms » Sat Nov 21, 2009 1:45 pm

Ultimate DBZ wrote:My next question is from Episode #2: how did Master Roshi know that Goku banged his head as a child and was originally in a space pod?
He says that Grandpa Gohan told him about how he found Goku, and about Goku's accident. And in the manga, Kame-sennin says nothing about Goku being found in any sort of space pod. I think he does say that Goku was found in "some funny round thing" in the anime though (or at least Kai).
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Post by Duo » Sat Nov 21, 2009 2:02 pm

Tyro wrote:
VegettoEX wrote:Goku actually defeats Piccolo (despite his entirely-broken body) because he flies in with a headbutt.
Not only that, Goku actually learned Bukujutsu while fighting Piccolo.
I was under the impression he just managed to keep it secret until that point, sort of like as a slightly ridiculous last-resort.

But I suppose that's open to interpretation.

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Post by Amigo Ten » Sat Nov 21, 2009 2:03 pm

Tyro wrote:
VegettoEX wrote:Goku actually defeats Piccolo (despite his entirely-broken body) because he flies in with a headbutt.
Not only that, Goku actually learned Bukujutsu while fighting Piccolo.
I doubt it. He just kept it secret until then.

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Post by Piccolo Daimao » Sat Nov 21, 2009 2:06 pm

Duo wrote:
Tyro wrote:
VegettoEX wrote:Goku actually defeats Piccolo (despite his entirely-broken body) because he flies in with a headbutt.
Not only that, Goku actually learned Bukujutsu while fighting Piccolo.
I was under the impression he just managed to keep it secret until that point, sort of like as a slightly ridiculous last-resort.

But I suppose that's open to interpretation.
Which begs the question: If that's true, why did he keep it secret? Tenshinhan, Chaozu and Kuririn could use it by then. Kuririn used it just to keep himself from touching outside the ring during his battle with Piccolo, whereas Goku kept himself from touching outside the ring with Kamehamehas. It's not like Bukujutsu was anything especially special like the Super Kamehameha, which he used before demonstrating Bukujutsu.
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Post by Herms » Sat Nov 21, 2009 2:44 pm

I don't think that he kept it secret, he just didn't bother mentioning it. It's not like Kuririn mentioned he could use Bukujutsu until he did. Though there is that bit where Goku fires a Kamehameha from his feet to propel himself, while leaving his arms free to fight. You'd think that using Bukujutsu would be a much easier way to propel yourself, so I guess that supports the idea that he didn't learn Bukujutsu until the very end of the fight. But you could also say that Goku just has more experience using the Kamehameha to propel himself, and would naturally use that.
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Post by Duo » Sat Nov 21, 2009 2:54 pm

He seemed to avoid using it after that too, though, until the fight against Nappa and Vegeta. Maybe he just didn't like it that much.

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Post by Herms » Sat Nov 21, 2009 2:58 pm

He does say during his run on the Serpent Road that Bukujutsu uses up a whole lot of stamina, which is why he only used it at the start before switching to running.
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Post by Piccolo Daimao » Sat Nov 21, 2009 3:04 pm

Herms wrote:I don't think that he kept it secret, he just didn't bother mentioning it. It's not like Kuririn mentioned he could use Bukujutsu until he did. Though there is that bit where Goku fires a Kamehameha from his feet to propel himself, while leaving his arms free to fight. You'd think that using Bukujutsu would be a much easier way to propel yourself, so I guess that supports the idea that he didn't learn Bukujutsu until the very end of the fight. But you could also say that Goku just has more experience using the Kamehameha to propel himself, and would naturally use that.
Plus, he uses the Kamehameha to propel himself into Piccolo's mouth. If he was able to fly, he could've just done that.
Herms wrote:He does say during his run on the Serpent Road that Bukujutsu uses up a whole lot of stamina, which is why he only used it at the start before switching to running.
It seems that Goku only became fully experienced with Bukujutsu until after his training with Kaiô-Sama. And even when he was heading towards the battlefield, he used Kinto'un. I assume that was to save stamina as well.
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Post by Godo » Sat Nov 21, 2009 6:12 pm

The feet Kamehameha could in no way be less energy consuming than flying. I think that the reason for using it was because of that he wanted a higher impact, and also, keep flying as a trumph card.
I think that when he flew towards Piccolo in the end of the fight, he didn't fully use flying, but relied on gravity to give a hard blow to Piccolo's chest.

Also, Piccolo mentioned in the beginning of Dragonball Z (when the two of them were heading against Radditz) that he actually could fly for real, indicating that Goku didn't perfect it or that it was too much energy consuming for him.

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Post by penguintruth » Sat Nov 21, 2009 6:41 pm

I always assumed it was Goku waiting until the last moment to use it in the fight. If he tricked Piccolo into thinking he couldn't use it, it would be handy in case Piccolo was smarter than his father and disabled both arms and both legs, as he did. Almost like Goku was banking on that.

But that requires extraordinary amount of insight, and he's Goku. Maybe I'm giving him too much credit. He is pretty bright when it comes to combat, though.
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Post by Tyro » Sat Nov 21, 2009 7:29 pm

I always thought that it sounded a lot more epic that he self-taught himself at the last second, based entirely off of what he saw from Tenshinhan, Chaozu, and Kuririn.

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Post by Bussani » Sun Nov 22, 2009 3:26 am

Keep in mind that Bukujutsu was really just the ability to float or stand on air at that point, rather than the fast flight we see later on in the story (although Goku obviously got up enough speed to ram Piccolo...). Propelling yourself with a Kamehameha was probably the better option back then. Plus shooting a Kamehameha out of your feet is pretty awesome...

I always assumed he learned it himself while training under Kami, and was just saving it. Don't show your enemy all your tricks at once. Heck, if Piccolo had known he could use it, he probably wouldn't have left Goku with that one last chance to win.

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Re: Multiple significant 'how did' questions

Post by russ869 » Mon Nov 23, 2009 6:17 pm

Ultimate DBZ wrote:My next question is from Episode #2: how did Master Roshi know that Goku banged his head as a child and was originally in a space pod? And why didn't he say anything when he first met him?
Yeah, I remember a few episodes back on the podcast you guys were doing the "Manga Review of Awesomeness" on the chapters where Cell first appears. And you were kind of talking about how it seemed like a big stretch for all that retconnning with "You were being followed all these years by robotic insects so small you didn't see."

And I was immediately thinking, "Um... Wasn't it even more a ridiculous stretch to simply retcon the entire series and say Son Gokuu is an alien?!"

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Post by Kendamu » Mon Nov 23, 2009 6:32 pm

penguintruth wrote:But that requires extraordinary amount of insight, and he's Goku. Maybe I'm giving him too much credit. He is pretty bright when it comes to combat, though.
It's in his nature! Of course he's pretty bright when it comes to combat! :D

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