Vegeta's Random Power-Up In The Freeza Arc

[Piccolo Daimao]

During the Freeza Arc, Vegeta seems to gain a random Zenkai-or-not power increase, purely for plot convenience.

We know that Vegeta got a Zenkai after Son Goku's Senzu Bean--Goku states that Vegeta's power increased after coming back from near-death. It is implied from that point that Goku is stronger than Vegeta, what with Vegeta thinking that Goku was a Super Saiyan and his statement referring to Captain Ginyu of "I wonder if even you can handle him".

But later, during his battle with Jheese, Vegeta states that he is getting closer to becoming a Super Saiyan. How is it that previously, he thought that Goku could become a Super Saiyan, but now he is suddenly saying that he could become one? It seems as if the two have completely switched roles.

Also, in the battle with Freeza, Vegeta shows he is capable to fighting on even ground with Freeza's first form. How can this be when he was supposedly weaker than Goku back during his battle with Jheese and Butta, and he even stated that Goku would not be able to defeat Freeza--and now suddenly, he's even with Freeza?

Discuss.

[Rocketman]

My theory is, Vegeta was exhausted. By the time of the Ginyu force battle, he had been awake for about five days straight at least. Ki control is almost entirely a mental game, so maybe bleary-eyes Vegeta didn't realize how much strength he got.

[Piccolo Daimao]

My theory is, Vegeta was exhausted. By the time of the Ginyu force battle, he had been awake for about five days straight at least. Ki control is almost entirely a mental game, so maybe bleary-eyes Vegeta didn't realize how much strength he got.

That's an intriguing theory. It's a good explanation for why Vegeta's power increased from that time to the battle with Freeza.

But what about during the battle with Jheese? Vegeta was stating that he was getting closer to becoming a Super Saiyan, and by that time he was just as, as you say, exhausted as when he got the Senzu Bean that gave him a Zenkai, and he hadn't slept by then either.

And if he was exhausted, wouldn't a Senzu Bean revive him back to fighting fit condition?

[Hujio]

I just have to throw it out there that I still find it hilarious when people use the term zenkai as though it's some "official term". It has even been entered into Urban Dictionary, specifically noting that it's a term used in DragonBall Z. Yay internetz!

[Piccolo Daimao]

I just have to throw it out there that I still find it hilarious when people use the term zenkai as though it's some "official term". It has even been entered into Urban Dictionary, specifically noting that it's a term used in DragonBall Z. Yay internetz!

I'll tell you now, I have never used "zenkai" as if it is an official term. I am fully aware that it is a fan term. What's wrong with me using a fan term?

[Savage68]

What term would we use to replace it?

[Rocketman]

But what about during the battle with Jheese? Vegeta was stating that he was getting closer to becoming a Super Saiyan, and by that time he was just as, as you say, exhausted as when he got the Senzu Bean that gave him a Zenkai, and he hadn't slept by then either.

And if he was exhausted, wouldn't a Senzu Bean revive him back to fighting fit condition?

Senzu beans can't stop viruses, so there's apparently limits on what they can do. And mental tiredness isn't really 'damage'.

More to what you were saying, Vegeta also sees Goku's 'weakness' to the Ginyu and decides he's too soft to be the Super Saiyan. There can only be one Super Saiyan; Vegeta knows he's gotten a large powerup, even if he doesn't understand just how large; Goku's too soft to become a Super Saiyan = Vegeta must be becoming a Super Saiyan! WAH HA HA

[penguintruth]

I don't think there was anything "random" about his power-up, Vegeta figured out that Saiyans power up significantly after being close to death and had Kuririn hurt him. It sort of had precedent, as Goku always tended to get stronger almost immediately after almost dying throughout Dragon Ball (though this is after-the-fact justification, but it fits well).

Super Saiyan being a rather nebulous concept before Goku actually attained it, Vegeta had no real idea what it was to be one and assumed he was getting closer because he's the Prince of Saiyans and ruthless, whereas Goku is soft, and even if he has the raw power, could never become cold enough.

[Castor Troy]

Vegeta probably didn't even know the depths of his own strength after he got the senzu. It was the first time he ever had one.

[The Tori-bot]

What term would we use to replace it?

"Power-up"? Is that really that much harder to type?

And yeah, "zenkai" being used as a noun really irritates me. Never mind the fact that it's not even a word.

[Kendamu]

I just have to throw it out there that I still find it hilarious when people use the term zenkai as though it's some "official term". It has even been entered into Urban Dictionary, specifically noting that it's a term used in DragonBall Z. Yay internetz!

Well, that's because it's long since become fanon... kinda like when everyone decided that Gohan "went Mystic" or something in the Boo arc and started calling him "Mystic Gohan." Of course, it's officially "Saikyou no Gohan" or something odd like that, but even now we just call him "Ultimate Gohan" or "Chou Gohan" or something. I know you weren;t asking for a change, but I figured I'd offer an explanation. Besides, I like the fan-term "zenkai." I'll likely use it until Toriyama gives the Saiyan power-up a convenient official name.

What term would we use to replace it?

"Power-up"? Is that really that much harder to type?

And yeah, "zenkai" being used as a noun really irritates me. Never mind the fact that it's not even a word.

I've seen it used as a verb, too! Really, though. Why's it so irritating? It seems that the majority of us who use it know that it's not an official term. It isn't like we're official dub people throwing it around in the actual series.

The original topic.. bla bla bla... Vegeta... Suepr Saiyan.. yadda yadda... rodda rodda...

As for Vegeta, he thought that Goku may have become the Super Saiyan. Then, after he refused to kill Jeese and Baata, Vegeta likely concluded otherwise because, like Ginyu said a short time later, the Super Saiyan is supposed to be ruthless. Goku obviously wasn't ruthless, so he obviously wasn't the Super Saiyan.

Of course, we learn later that the actual Super Saiyan state doesn't make someone "ruthless" because Goku even went as far as trying to let Freeza live in disgrace and later in the series he and Gohan came to completely control the Super Saiyan state without it affecting their personalities one bit.

At the time, though, it was part of the legend that the Super Saiyan was ruthless.

[Metalwario64]

"Power-up"

Powa-appu.

[Piccolo Daimao]

What term would we use to replace it?

"Power-up"? Is that really that much harder to type?

And yeah, "zenkai" being used as a noun really irritates me. Never mind the fact that it's not even a word.

"Zenkai" is much faster to type than "the power-up gained when a Saiyan is revived from near-death".

If it annoys you, then that's your problem.

[penguintruth]

Thanks to you guys, I associate the first DBZ ED with that meaning.

"Oh, so Gohan is singing about powering up."

I guess it makes about as much sense as popcorn showers.

[the_abberration]

I think part of it had to do with Vegeta's pride. It seemed like every five minutes he was saying he was coming close to being SSJ. Hell, if he had sneezed, he probably would have said he was about to become a Super Saiyan.

[Savage68]

What term would we use to replace it?

"Power-up"? Is that really that much harder to type?

Of course not, but that's so incredibly ambiguous that it's not even funny.

[Rocketman]

"Power-up"? Is that really that much harder to type?

Kinda ambiguous, don't you think?

And yeah, "zenkai" being used as a noun really irritates me. Never mind the fact that it's not even a word.

If it's not a word, then it doesn't have any definition to be used wrongly! BWAH HA HA

[Piccolo Daimaoh]

What term would we use to replace it?

"Saiyan power up after recovering from near-death experience".....




I think we should stick with zenkai.

[Godo]

What term would we use to replace it?

"Saiyan power up after recovering from near-death experience".....




I think we should stick with zenkai.

"Increased chi and physical durability as well as mental coordinance after the physical body of a inhabitant of the planet Vegeta suffers great insult to the degree that the organism almost completely fails to function, but due to one of several possible external factors, it is repaired, and thus the result of the Saiya organism strenghtens itself to an extent where, in the future, further insult of similar degree is not possible."

Power-up does not mean the same thing as what I wrote above. Kuririn and Gohan got their powers unlocked on Namek, that's a kind of powerup.

Zenkai, although, is used to explain my piece of text enough until a new, official, word comes up. Until then, most of us know what we talk about.
I know it's an ugly word, but it's better than nothing.

On topic:

Goku went from 8,000 to 90,000 in 6 days with using zenkai. That's an increase with 11,25 times.
Later he went from 90,000 to 3,000,000. That's an increase with 33,33 times.

Vegeta went from around 30,000 (I think) to at least 500,000. That's an increase with 16,6 times.
Later he went from 500,000 to around 3,000,000. That's an increase with 6 times.

At the time when Vegeta saw Goku defeat Jheese and Butta, I think that he was in a kind of shock, really. But when he fought Jheese himself, his power was way greater than the one of Goku's, that's where his confidence came.
I doubt he knew that Goku could multiply the Kaio-ken up to 10 times at that point.

[Piccolo Daimaoh]

"Increased chi and physical durability as well as mental coordinance after the physical body of a inhabitant of the planet Vegeta suffers great insult to the degree that the organism almost completely fails to function, but due to one of several possible external factors, it is repaired, and thus the result of the Saiya organism strenghtens itself to an extent where, in the future, further insult of similar degree is not possible."

Yeah, we'll call it that instead of zenkai!

Seriously though, I know zenkai doesn't have the same meaning as the one we use it for, but its just a short way of referring to something specific that we all know the meaning of.