Which type of fusion can increase power more?

[SSJkid]

Which type of fusion can increase power more? Is it Namekian Fusion, Fusion Dance or Potara Earrings?
What type of increase do Namekian Fusion, Fusion Dance and Potara Earrings make? Is it addition or multiplication of power levels?

[Kid Buu]

If I remember correctly, potara is stated to be stronger then the fusion dance. No idea about the Piccolo fusions.

[Herms]

Yeah, the Elder Kaioshin says that the "effect" of the Potara is greater than the Fusion dance. This is generally assumed to mean that the resulting fused character is stronger, and the Daizenshuu 7 entry for the Potara flat-out say this. Don't know how either kind of fusion compares to the Namekian kind though.

The Super Exciting Guide: Story Volume says that the Potara multiply the battle powers of the two people together. It doesn't say anything about how the Fusion dance or Namekian fusion compare.

[Savage68]

Even without the Old Kaioshin's statement, everyone had seen how powerful Goten and Trunks became through fusion. Even so, Kaioshin and Vegetto himself were surprised at the power a Potara fusion yields. That indicates to me that it held much more potency than the fusion dance, and of course, there's the literal statement to back it up.

[Kaboom]

Well, there's no real solid precedence for any of them in the story save for that the result is "way stronger than the sum of the parts." The only one of them that could possibly be halfway predictable is the Fusion Dance, due to the strict rules for it concerning evening out your Ki beforehand.

But since the Namekian Fusion seems to have no such power-related rules and the Potara only requires that both fusers have ears... there's no way to make any sort of prediction or "standard" for them since there's so many possible variables.

Piccolo gained a large power boost when assimilating a fellow warrior Namekian, but absorbing Kami granted an even GREATER boost because they were being "reuinited," even though Kami was nowhere near as potent or powerful a fighter as Piccolo. Likewise, despite being able to "destroy Freeza in one blow," Kaioshin was still a relatively weak and useless putz after merging with Kibito, possibly because the latter was such a pushover in power.

So... these things are really more or less impossible to Nail down (get it?) to any sort of exact science. The only type of superiority established in the manga is the Old Kaioshin claiming that the Potara method is "better" than the Fusion Dance is apparently interpreted as meaning "stronger" by the Daizenshuu (which, if I were to get into crunching numbers, would be supported).

I think the SEG claiming that the Potara multiplies the fusees power together should be taken with a grain of salt. After all, there's no scale given or anything. If we attempt to take it super-literally and assume that Goku's 20,000,000 would get multiplied by Vegeta's 15,000,000 or something like that, then minds would be blown... I wager it's meant to be interpreted more as, "Potara works more like multiplication than addition" or something.

[Herms]

I guess it’s not in the manga, but isn’t there some line in the anime when Goku is first explaining Fusion, where Piccolo compares it favorably to Namekian fusion, saying that the Namekian fusion is “merely assimilation” or some such thing?

I think the SEG claiming that the Potara multiplies the fusees power together should be taken with a grain of salt. After all, there's no scale given or anything. If we attempt to take it super-literally and assume that Goku's 20,000,000 would get multiplied by Vegeta's 15,000,000 or something like that, then minds would be blown... I wager it's meant to be interpreted more as, "Potara works more like multiplication than addition" or something.

Yeah, if we take the line to literally refer to multiplying Freeza-style battle powers, you get some odd results. For instance, it’s hard to work out a way for Kaioshin-Kibito to not be far stronger than Boo, unless you make Kibito about as strong as a regular human, which contradicts Gohan saying that he didn’t think he could beat Kibito while still hiding his true power. And since the SEG also says that Super Saiyan 3 is four times as powerful as Super Saiyan 2, it would mean that if Goku used the Potara to fuse with the farmer with a shotgun, the resulting being would be five times stronger than Goku, a greater difference that between SSj 2 and 3. So presumably fusing with Mister Satan would yield an even greater power-up than that, but Goku compares it to a power of 1,000 increasing to 1,001 (though you could just attribute this to him not knowing just how powerful the Potara are).

There was this Japanese fansite called “Outer Z” (gone now, but while it was up posted several rare scans) which took the SEG at its word, with the result being that they calculated Vegetto’s battle power as about 35,000 times greater than Gohan-absorbed Boo’s. They conveniently failed to put up one for Kaioshin-Kibito, but following this rule and using the BPs they gave for the pair, it would have been vastly greater than Boo’s.

So yeah, I don't think the SEG line was supposed to be applied to scouter-type BPs, or was mean all that literally.

[Kaboom]

There was this Japanese fansite called “Outer Z” (gone now, but while it was up posted several rare scans) which took the SEG at its word, with the result being that they calculated Vegetto’s battle power as about 35,000 times greater than Gohan-absorbed Boo’s. They conveniently failed to put up one for Kaioshin-Kibito, but following this rule and using the BPs they gave for the pair, it would have been vastly greater than Boo’s.

One or two members of the late great MFG forums did the same thing, and ended up with equally insane results. I'm pretty sure they ran into the same problem with Kaioshin. What's more, it's not even just Gotenks-Boo whom the fused Kaioshin was considered useless against. He was still just potential collateral damage against the far-weaker KID Boo as well.

[mysticboy]

It was stated that the potara earrings yields the larger power up.

[Rocketman]

If we attempt to take it super-literally and assume that Goku's 20,000,000 would get multiplied by Vegeta's 15,000,000 or something like that, then minds would be blown...

That sounds perfectly reasonable for me. This is Vegetto you're talking about here.

[Darkprince410]

Even if they work on the same formula, the Potara fusion would still in all logical sense yield the more powerful fusion, primarily because it doesn't require the battle powers of the two individuals to be synchronized whereas in the case of the Fusion Dance it does. For example, let's just say that the formula for both is this.

(A + B) x 10 = C

Which basically means that the two fighters' current form battle powers are added together and then multiplied by 10 to get the fused form's results.

For the sake of numbers we'll just have Goku's battle power at 10 and Vegeta's battle power at 8.

Fusion Dance

(8 + 8) x 10 = 160 (Goku would have to drop his battle power to 8 to match Vegeta's)

Potara Earrings

(10 + 8) x 10 = 180

Now, this is all just speculative and may be nowhere close to how any actual formula (if there even is any) for the fusions might be, but it still leaves the possibility that even if the formulas are identical, the Potara fusion pushes out ahead.

[hleV]

If Potara Earrings really multiplied fusees' powerlevels, then by a specific "Potara powerlevel scale".

[Kaboom]

Now, this is all just speculative and may be nowhere close to how any actual formula (if there even is any) for the fusions might be, but it still leaves the possibility that even if the formulas are identical, the Potara fusion pushes out ahead.

Well, if you want to get into crunching numbers and making speculative formulas and all that... then I've typically found from experience that there would have to be a much bigger difference between them than just not having to even out their levels before-hand. Because otherwise, especially going by the "official" Super Saiyan multipliers from the SEG... SSj3 Gotenks ends up WAY stronger than Super Vegetto.

Let's say Goten and Trunks are each a... 2, compared to your 10 and 8 for Goku and Vegeta.

(2 + 2) x 10 = 40 <--- Base Gotenks.
40 x 400 = 16,000 <--- SSj3 Gotenks

(10 + 8) x 10 = 180 <--- Base Vegetto.
180 x 50 = 9000 <--- Super Vegetto. (the result was COMPLETELY circumstantial, I swear!)

So yeah, since Vegetto only needed Super Saiyan to completely school Gohan-Boo, you can see the problem. Whether you agree with the SEG's boosts for Super Saiyan or not, once you start crunching numbers the Potara fusion has to be MUCH greater than the Dance method. Probably about twice as much, at least.

[Savage68]

So yeah, since Vegetto only needed Super Saiyan to completely school Gohan-Boo, you can see the problem. Whether you agree with the SEG's boosts for Super Saiyan or not, once you start crunching numbers the Potara fusion has to be MUCH greater than the Dance method. Probably about twice as much, at least.

The Old Kai says that Vegetto was so powerful because of Goku and Vegeta's abilities, not because of the Potara. While Kaioshin is wallowing in a pool of his own awe and saying something about how he couldn't believe the Potara's effect was so powerful, the Old Kai basically calls him a fool and says that Vegetto's strength is mostly attributed to Goku & Vegeta, since they're two of the strongest fighters in the universe. So while the Potara is indirectly stated to be stronger than the dance, Vegetto is so much more powerful than Gotenks, even SSJ3 Gotenks, because Goku and Vegeta are individually much more powerful than Goten and Trunks.

[Xyex]

The way I handle them is:

Dance Fusion
Weaker power x Fusion Multiplier = Result.

So in the case of the above 10 and 8 for Goku and Vegeta, and using 10x as the Fusion Multiplier, you'd get:

8 x 10 = 80. Giving Gogeta a base of 80.

Potara Fusion
Power A + Power B = AB x Fusion Multiplier.

Using the same levels as above you'd have:

10 + 8 = 18 x 10 = 180. Giving Vegetto a base of 180.

Always seemed to work well for me.

[Kaboom]

So while the Potara is indirectly stated to be stronger than the dance, Vegetto is so much more powerful than Gotenks, even SSJ3 Gotenks, because Goku and Vegeta are individually much more powerful than Goten and Trunks.

Yeah, that's another way. For Goku and Vegeta to just be so much more powerful than Goten and Trunks that Vegetto likewise trumps Gotenks even at a much lower Super Saiyan level. Which is very possible.

Always seemed to work well for me.

That's pretty interesting. So a hypothetical Gotenks would "only" be a 20 by that method.

[rereboy]

Thats a very interesting method, Xyex.

And it makes sense since the stronger of the two has to lower his power to match the weaker one.

[Dayspring]

I guess my problem with everybody's theories regarding fusion is that synergy keeps getting used instead of multiplication. At that, we do it avoid "ridiculously high BPs" and scenarios like "what if they don't get any stronger if they both have BPs of 1?"

Well... so what? BPs become less consistant once you hit the mid 20,000s, irrealistic once you hit the 100,000s, and pointless to try and measure once you reach the millions. Saying Vegetto has a BP in the quadrillions works fine for me, because BPs are mainly aimed for measuring the weak (the low 20,000s are elite by the universe's standards, after all). Meanwhile, Goku even makes the joking estimate of only increasing from 1,000 to 1,001 if he fused with someone as weak as Satan, so being a "pointless fusion" is actually a proven possibility.

[rereboy]

I guess my problem with everybody's theories regarding fusion is that synergy keeps getting used instead of multiplication. At that, we do it avoid "ridiculously high BPs" and scenarios like "what if they don't get any stronger if they both have BPs of 1?"

Well... so what? BPs become less consistant once you hit the mid 20,000s, irrealistic once you hit the 100,000s, and pointless to try and measure once you reach the millions. Saying Vegetto has a BP in the quadrillions works fine for me, because BPs are mainly aimed for measuring the weak (the low 20,000s are elite by the universe's standards, after all). Meanwhile, Goku even makes the joking estimate of only increasing from 1,000 to 1,001 if he fused with someone as weak as Satan, so being a "pointless fusion" is actually a proven possibility.

The main problem with regarding potara fusion as a straight multiplication of their strength is Kibitoshin.

At the very least, Kibitoshin should have been stronger than SSJ2 Vegeta and therefore useful in battle against Kid buu, if the potara indeed worked that way.

Since its implied that he wouldn`t be useful, he can`t be stronger than, or as strong as, SSJ2 Vegeta.

[Savage68]

The main problem with regarding potara fusion as a straight multiplication of their strength is Kibitoshin.

At the very least, Kibitoshin should have been stronger than SSJ2 Vegeta and therefore useful in battle against Kid buu, if the potara indeed worked that way.

Since its implied that he wouldn`t be useful, he can`t be stronger than, or as strong as, SSJ2 Vegeta.

SSJ2 Vegeta wasn't useful against Kid Buu. He was utterly godstomped and couldn't even fulfill his only obligation, which was to stall for 1 minute. Kibitoshin could easily be more powerful than SSJ2 Vegeta (I've always thought he was), but would still be considered useless to any foe that's SSJ3-tier. And didn't Kibitoshin say that he didn't have enough energy to use Instant Movement?

[rereboy]

He was regarded useful by everyone in the upcoming fight against Kid Buu and Kibitoshin was not. Thats why Goku and Vegeta stayed to fight and Kibitoshin and Rou Kaioshin left.

And I`m making Kibitoshin`s power level "small" on purpose. With the multiplication, it would be no trouble at all for him to end up as strong as SSJ3 Goku or stronger.

Kaioshin`s power level, which was similar or stronger to that of Piccolo, would be multiplied to Kibito`s power level. Piccolo, in the buu saga, should be able to keep up or be superior to the base states of Gohan, Goku and Vegeta. That means that if Piccolo somehow got a power up that enabled him to become 500 times stronger, he would keep up or surpass SSJ3 Goku.
If the potara fusion really is a straight multiplication of their powers, then its hard to imagine why Kibitoshin isn`t at least 500 times stronger than Kaioshin, since Kibito was at least a few thousands times stronger than an average human.