Mistakes in the manga, anime, Daizenshuu?

[Nazi Cola]

Everybody's always quick to dismiss the Daizenshuu because of the mistakes in it, but are the mistakes really that bad that one can dismiss it entirely? What's your opinion on that?

And on the topic of mistakes, the manga has one or two as well that the Daizenshuu actually corrects, doesn't it?

So then what about the anime?

[Bussani]

Do a lot of people dismiss the Daizenshuu outright? I think most of us consider them the best resource for Dragon Ball information after the manga itself.

Most of the anime's "mistakes" are filler related, stemming from whoever wrote them forgetting something or simply not knowing what Toriyama was going to do in the future. I suppose there were a few other things like Vegeta and Nappa's colors when they were first in it, which was probably due to their colors not being established in the manga yet. Probably the same with Karin. Piccolo and Gohan's sashes seem to be blue in the anime while they're red in the manga, too, but I don't know if that was a mistake or a conscious choice.

Mistakes in the manga... Wasn't one that Trunks called the Androids 19 and 20 when he first came to the past, when he should have called them 17 and 18? I think this might have been fixed in the Kanzenban release.

[Drabaz]

I was unaware that people dismissed the Daizenshuu's. I thought it was quite the opposite here. I mean, the site is called DaizenshuuEX

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

Yep, the Daizenshuu corrects Vegeta's Battle Power during the battle with Reacoom. The Manga originally had him at 20,000 during his power-up, but this was shown to actually be 30,000 in the guide. And it was later edited into the Kanzenban release of the Manga.

[Herms]

And on the topic of mistakes, the manga has one or two as well that the Daizenshuu actually corrects, doesn't it?

Well, there's the date of the Cell Games, originally said to be "M 17th" despite occurring 14 days after May 12th, the day the androids show up. Daizenshuu 7 changes it to May 26th, and the kanzenban followed suit. There's also Vegeta's BP of "close to 20,000" during the Recoom fight, which was changed to "close to 30,000" in Daizenshuu 7 and changed in the later kanzenban editions as well, although the anime was the first to correct this.

So then what about the anime?

If I remember right, in the filler episode where Goku travels back to visit Kame-sennin as an 18-year old, he's said to only go back 50 years, despite Kame-sennin having already been established as over 300 years old. Daizenshuu 7's timeline though has him travel back 305 years, to Age 448.

Mistakes in the manga... Wasn't one that Trunks called the Androids 19 and 20 when he first came to the past, when he should have called them 17 and 18? I think this might have been fixed in the Kanzenban release.

No, that's never been fixed in any kanzenban release yet. Not in the Japanese manga at least; I've heard that the Chinese editions of the kanzenban actually do correct it.

[Nazi Cola]

I've seen some people dismiss the Daizenshuu(s) outright because Daiz 6 tries to place the first Cooler movie into the timeline. I mean, really? You don't agree with the Daiz giving an approximate estimation of when the movie would fit in, and you dismiss all of the Daiz as "crappy 'guides'"? And not just that. It's also illustrations from Akira like the Gohan one with all his forms, and the one with Broly being stated to have gotten stronger in between Movies 8 and 10. They disregard those scans because they think it's just "concept art" and doesn't hold any weight in an actual debate.

Personally, I think those people are just raging because the Daiz proves something they don't like, but that's just me. I don't see any other reason to dismiss all of them.

But yeah, those are some examples I've seen of people dismissing the Daiz's outright. Thanks for all the replies and help, guys. I knew there had to be some mistakes in the manga.

[EnmaDaiou]

I think we need to pay a lot of attention when talking about Daizenshuu.

Daizenshuu 2 have the focus on manga.

Daizenshuu 3, 5 and an extra volume have the focus on Anime.

Daizenshuu 7, the source of the must of the daizenshuu's info on the net consideres all the non canonical info like fillers, and movies.

Guides after Daizenshuu clearly separate the universes.
Forever and Landmark are only manga guides.

Son Goku Densetsu and Tenkaichi Bouken are based on anime.

I think it's better to think that way..

The Anime and the Manga are different reallties.

Daizenshuu just doesen't make this difference clear sometimes.

[EnmaDaiou]

Yep, the Daizenshuu corrects Vegeta's Battle Power during the battle with Reacoom. The Manga originally had him at 20,000 during his power-up, but this was shown to actually be 30,000 in the guide. And it was later edited into the Kanzenban release of the Manga.

Just one thing..
On the virst edition of Kanzenban, the power was the same of tankoubon.

After the second edition they made this correction.

[Nazi Cola]

I think we need to pay a lot of attention when talking about Daizenshuu.

Daizenshuu 2 have the focus on manga.

Daizenshuu 3, 5 and an extra volume have the focus on Anime.

Daizenshuu 7, the source of the must of the daizenshuu's info on the net consideres all the non canonical info like fillers, and movies.

Guides after Daizenshuu clearly separate the universes.
Forever and Landmark are only manga guides.

Son Goku Densetsu and Tenkaichi Bouken are based on anime.

I think it's better to think that way..

The Anime and the Manga are different reallties.

Daizenshuu just doesen't make this difference clear sometimes.

You know, this is really good and informational, but if I told this to some people, they'd be like "weres da sources?!".

[Drabaz]

They disregard those scans because they think it's just "concept art" and doesn't hold any weight in an actual debate.

Personally, I think those people are just raging because the Daiz proves something they don't like, but that's just me. I don't see any other reason to dismiss all of them.

Who are "they" and where are you seeing this?

[EnmaDaiou]

You know, this is really good and informational, but if I told this to some people, they'd be like "weres da sources?!".

Daizenshuu is really a greate source.

Morethan "its valid" or "its invalid" I think the important is to Know the meaning of the information.


In my oppinion, the most valid source is the "manga".
After that, the guides based only on manga.

Guides based on anime have a great velue too.
But as I said, I just consider them on "anime reallity".

(sorry about my english.. not so good yet)

[Herms]

Daizenshuu just doesen't make this difference clear sometimes.

But even in Daizenshuu 7, the only one to cover both the manga and anime, they usually will label something as anime-only when applicable. There are some parts of the book that don't do this, like the timeline, but I'd say on the whole they do a good job of keeping the two distinct.

You know, this is really good and informational, but if I told this to some people, they'd be like "weres da sources?!".

Well, there's the covers for one. They're generally make the content pretty clear; Daizenshuu 3 is "TV Animation Part 1", 6 is "Movies and TV Specials", etc.

[EnmaDaiou]

But even in Daizenshuu 7, the only one to cover both the manga and anime, they usually will label something as anime-only when applicable. There are some parts of the book that don't do this, like the timeline, but I'd say on the whole they do a good job of keeping the two distinct.

I can undestand.

We have the "world Guide" too.
But I think the great "problem" is exactly the enormous quantity of information.

I have the daizenshuu.
So I can read and understand the differences.

But most of the people doesn't have.
And the info abouts Daizensuu arround the net is..
How can I say..
Can't the word in english..

And the info abouts Daizensuu arround the net is "BARA-BARA" (japanese term)...

Pieces of info with no logical order that we can see in many sites.a

Thats why I said we must pay attention wuhen reading and talking about daizenshuu's infos.

[Nazi Cola]

They disregard those scans because they think it's just "concept art" and doesn't hold any weight in an actual debate.

Personally, I think those people are just raging because the Daiz proves something they don't like, but that's just me. I don't see any other reason to dismiss all of them.

Who are "they" and where are you seeing this?

On another DBZ forum I frequent. It's just one person on there, but on other forums (like Pojo), there are some people that would disregard this stuff.

Well, there's the covers for one. They're generally make the content pretty clear; Daizenshuu 3 is "TV Animation Part 1", 6 is "Movies and TV Specials", etc.

I tried explaining that to one person, saying that Daiz 6 is specifically for the movies and TV specials, but then he just said it doesn't count because it's a "crappy 'guide'". And I'm assuming he's being in general about the Daizenshuu(s) because of that.

[Herms]

I can undestand.

We have the "world Guide" too.

I'm not too sure what you're saying, but Daizenshuu 4: World Guide is another manga-only guide.

And the info abouts Daizensuu arround the net is..
How can I say..
Can't the word in english..

Hmmm..."bullshit"? I know that on the DB wikia, if they say that something is found in the daizenshuu, most of the time they're either completely lying, or they've misrepresented or misquoted what was said in some way.

And the info abouts Daizensuu arround the net is "BARA-BARA" (japanese term)...

Pieces of info with no logical order that we can see in many sites.a

Yeah, there's that problem too. That's what makes it easy for people to just make up fake daizenshuu quotes, since many people only have a hazy understanding of what the books consist of.

I tried explaining that to one person, saying that Daiz 6 is specifically for the movies and TV specials, but then he just said it doesn't count because it's a "crappy 'guide'". And I'm assuming he's being in general about the Daizenshuu(s) because of that.

And I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that he's never even seen the book.

[EnmaDaiou]

I'm not too sure what you're saying, but Daizenshuu 4: World Guide is another manga-only guide.

You're right.
I took the volume 4 and confirmed.
Somehow I tought there was some anime information.
Thank you for the hint..

Hmmm..."bullshit"? I know that on the DB wikia, if they say that something is found in the daizenshuu, most of the time they're either completely lying, or they've misrepresented or misquoted what was said in some way.

That was not the word, but fits well.

Yeah, there's that problem too. That's what makes it easy for people to just make up fake daizenshuu quotes, since many people only have a hazy understanding of what the books consist of.

Yes..
That's exactly what I'm trying to say since the beginning..
This and your wikia comment.
My english is getting worse while I try to learn Kanjis...

[Son_Gohan]

If I remember correctly, wasn't Zarbon revealing to Vegeta that Frieza could also transform, was something they forgot to include in the anime?

[Cableguy15]

If I remember correctly, wasn't Zarbon revealing to Vegeta that Freeza could also transform, was something they forgot to include in the anime?

I remember they forgot that in the dubbed anime, because even when I was younger and Vegeta said, "Zarbon blurted it out." when he explained how he knew of Freeza's transformation, I immediately knew that was wrong.

The way I look at the Daizenshuu is that as long as it doesn't contradict the manga, there's no reason to ignore it.

Isn't there a quote from Toriyama in Daizenshuu #7 where he says that he wishes he had the Daizenshuu for reference when he was drawing the manga to make things easier for himself? I'm sure that would silence any non-believer.

Edit: From Kanzentai:

This last daizenshuu, volume 7, is a grand DragonBall encyclopedia. Each time I think that the whole staff which makes these books has a really tough time of it, but this time seemed even more hellish. They truly did a great job.

I'm intensely forgetful, so despite being the author there are many things I don't understand anymore. It can be quite a pain, so I think it would have really been a life-saver if this grand encyclopedia had been around during serialization. It's a little frustrating.

Well at any rate, my sincerest thanks to the staff, and to all DragonBall fans.

– Toriyama Akira

[Dayspring]

There's also Vegeta's BP of "close to 20,000" during the Recoom fight, which was changed to "close to 30,000" in Daizenshuu 7 and changed in the later kanzenban editions as well, although the anime was the first to correct this.

This really bugs me. No change was needed here; they were recording his suppressed BP as it was powering up. In other words, it's not supposed to be as high as 30,000 yet. Literally any number between 1 and 60,000 could have been given under these circumstances and still be valid; it just needs to be between Vegeta's unknown suppressed strength and his unknown max strength, while his unknown max can't be as high as 60,000 for Jeece's reaction towards Ginyu's estimation of Goku to work.

Seriously, Vegeta has three strengths:
X = Suppressed Strength (never given), which is between 1 and Y
Y = Suppressed Strength in the process of powering up. Between X and Z, given as "close to 20,000"
Z = Max Strength (never given), which is greater than Y and between 24,000 and 60,000

Where does the need to change Y come in, simply because the daizenshuu told us what Z is?

[Herms]

Where does the need to change Y come in, simply because the daizenshuu told us what Z is?

Well, I think part of it is that Jhees and Burta are surprised that Vegeta's BP is "close to 20,000", when it was already 18,000 when he left for Earth. I suppose it's possible that the last time those two saw Vegeta he was only at 12,000 or something, but having them be shocked at what is old news for the readers takes all the impact out of the line. Not to mention the original line doesn't really tell us anything; we already knew Vegeta was previously at 24,000 and has gotten even stronger since, so even if "close to 20,000" isn't necessarily contradictory, it's still a completely pointless line. Changing it to "close to 30,000" actually lets us know how much Vegeta's power has increased since his first fight with Zarbon. I suppose in the end I still would have preferred that the kanzenban had fixed Trunks' warning about 19 and 20 rather than this line, but it's better than nothing.