Who came first?

Discussion, generally of an in-universe nature, regarding any aspect of the franchise (including movies, spin-offs, etc.) such as: techniques, character relationships, internal back-history, its universe, and more.
whitney232
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Who came first?

Post by whitney232 » Fri May 06, 2011 10:32 pm

Brolly/Broli or Trunks?
I'm almost 100% sure Trunks came first because The manga came before the first Brolly movie, but there are huge Brolly fans who are convinced Brolly was meant to be a villain that Akira Toriyama didn't have the time to put in the manga. Apparently they thought that Akira Toriyama made all of the full blooded Saiyans and then characters like Gohan and Trunks were an after thought. I'd never heard of this before and the people who said this aren't that*ahem* trustworthy when it comes to these things. (one thought Tanipuu from a H-doujinshi was an actual canon character :roll: ) I just wanted to clear this up because I'm pretty sure Trunks was first. Although if I'm wrong I'll happily admit to being so.

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Re: Who came first?

Post by Super Saiyan Turlast x4 » Fri May 06, 2011 10:54 pm

Trunks came first.
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Re: Who came first?

Post by Bussani » Fri May 06, 2011 11:01 pm

Daizenshuu 6 says that Toriyama designed Broly's appearance for the movie, but I think that's it.
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Re: Who came first?

Post by whitney232 » Fri May 06, 2011 11:05 pm

That's what I thought, but these "fans" insist otherwise. they love Brolly so much (especially one of them) that they can't accept that Trunks was the first one. Several people tried to tell them that they were wrong but they just wouldn't budge on this issue.

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Re: Who came first?

Post by Super Saiyan Turlast x4 » Fri May 06, 2011 11:12 pm

For your own sanity, please don't bother trying to debate with "Broly fans" nowadays. It'll only make you crazier. Hell, I've debated with "Broly fans" who've claimed Broly was as powerful as Super Saiyan 3 Goku.
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Re: Who came first?

Post by Savage68 » Fri May 06, 2011 11:20 pm

Hm, back in the days of playing DBZ/Budokai 3, my friend once told me that Broli was stronger than Super Saiyan 3 Goku. I said, "Really?" He said, "Yup." Of course, we were about 14 years old then, but my ignorance was bliss. :oops:

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Re: Who came first?

Post by Super Saiyan Turlast x4 » Fri May 06, 2011 11:31 pm

Ah, I have a confession to make after reading your reply, Savage: back when Budokai Tenkaichi 1 was released--I was convinced that Broly (Movie #10) was on equal terms with Super Saiyan Gogeta. Why? Because I thought Gogeta was nothing more than Goku+Vegeta and that Broly had went from Super Perfect Cell's level in the previous movie to being up there with Gogeta because of the huge power-up I thought he received from healing. Not just that; I also believed the villain team-up scenario in Budokai Tenkaichi 1 was a canon reflection of what would've happened if they all became a team to fight the Z-warriors. And since Cooler beat Gogeta down....well :lol:

Anytime someone said "But he lost to three Kame-Hame-Ha's", I simply replied with "The ending was crap!" And I was about 17 at this point. So yes, I originally believed Broly was also beyond Super Saiyan 3 Goku, Gotenks, and ummm....Super Boo.

Just had to put myself on broadway for a second, because I was one of those crazy "he has infinite power and can keep getting stronger" while ignoring he was releasing built up Chi, Broly fans in the past. I've since changed my opinion on the Legendary Super Saiyan, for the better.
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Re: Who came first?

Post by Herms » Sat May 07, 2011 12:06 am

whitney232 wrote:but there are huge Brolly fans who are convinced Brolly was meant to be a villain that Akira Toriyama didn't have the time to put in the manga. Apparently they thought that Akira Toriyama made all of the full blooded Saiyans and then characters like Gohan and Trunks were an after thought.
That's...almost impressively wrong. DBZ movie 8 came out in March 1993, right around when the Cell Games were wrapping up in the manga. I don't know exactly how long movie 8 was in production, but even when movie 7 came out in July 1992 the manga was already up to 2nd-form Cell running around. There's basically 0% chance that Broli was created before Trunks, about negative infinity chance he was created before Gohan, and no evidence whatsoever that Toriyama ever planned on having Broli appear in the manga.
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Re: Who came first?

Post by Adamant » Sat May 07, 2011 2:51 am

Plus, you know, Trunks is in the first movie Broli is in, too. And the one before that. Yeah.
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Re: Who came first?

Post by whitney232 » Sat May 07, 2011 5:40 pm

Super Saiyan Turlast x4 wrote:For your own sanity, please don't bother trying to debate with "Broly fans" nowadays. It'll only make you crazier. Hell, I've debated with "Broly fans" who've claimed Broly was as powerful as Super Saiyan 3 Goku.
Oh I haven't personally (cause its like talking to a brick wall) but others have I felt bad for them XD
I just laugh at them because even when people gave them evidence to the contrary they turned all "Omg noo ur stoopid Brolly was first and he was more awesome than Trunks and Gohan ever were!!11!!" Oh and they're supposedly "adults" too lol.

I don't get how they could call themselves fans when they don't even know what the heck they're talking about half the time :roll:

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Re: Who came first?

Post by Casual Matt » Sun May 08, 2011 3:39 am

Adamant wrote:Plus, you know, Trunks is in the first movie Broli is in, too. And the one before that. Yeah.
Yeah, this pretty much renders any other argument invalid.
whitney232 wrote:...there are huge Brolly fans who are convinced Brolly was meant to be a villain that Akira Toriyama didn't have the time to put in the manga.
Am I nuts or are these fans arguing against themselves?

Let's say for the sake of argument that Toriyama did indeed come up with the idea for Broli and he did so before thinking of Trunks. In such a case, if he had any intention of putting him in the manga, he would have done so.

The only way he wouldn't have had time is if he had already been in the middle of a story. In this case the Jinzoningen Arc with Trunks and whatnot.

Methinks their argument holds little water.

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Re: Who came first?

Post by Silver Sinspawn » Sun May 08, 2011 6:41 am

Todays lesson: Never argue with a Broly fan.
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Re: Who came first?

Post by Zeta » Sun May 08, 2011 2:38 pm

Silver Sinspawn wrote:Todays lesson: Never argue with a Broly fan.

Amen.

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Re: Who came first?

Post by VegettoEX » Mon May 09, 2011 3:44 pm

What I'm most curious about is where these types of fans hang out and converse this way. I'm lucky in that I had the power to create my own community with my own vision, and therefore conversations like that are as likely to occur as Zarbon suddenly appearing on my desk and demanding payment for his upcoming college tuition.

I mean, we hear about crazy (young / inexperienced / ignorant / happy / enthusiastic) fans like this, but I seldom have the... opportunity?... to experience this kind of stuff, myself. At the risk of possibly putting other communities in a negative light -- which is far from my goal, mind you -- where on Earth is this happening? Is it real? Or are they just out for some common, everyday lulz?

I mean, it takes two seconds to look at the progression of the movies and see that Trunks already existed by the time Broli came around. So what's the deal, here?
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Re: Who came first?

Post by xzero » Mon May 09, 2011 3:55 pm

^^^ I would have to guess a nice haven for such talk could by YouTube, but I so rarely read the comments that it's hard to say for sure.

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Re: Who came first?

Post by Herms » Mon May 09, 2011 3:57 pm

VegettoEX wrote:I mean, it takes two seconds to look at the progression of the movies and see that Trunks already existed by the time Broli came around. So what's the deal, here?
If these people are for real, then I'd imagine they simply haven't seen the other movies or know anything about them, the same way they apparently have no real knowledge of the manga or how it was made. And I'm guessing they're pretty young (despite what they may claim) and new to the franchise. To us it may be second nature to know that of course Trunks came first, but to someone just approaching this massive franchise for the first time, it's not necessarily clear how all the different parts relate to each other.

Oh, and do the Funi DVDs of the moves number them? Because if not, maybe that's it. If someone's new to the franchise they might not know that the Android No.13 movie came out before the first Broli movie, because it's not really evident from the movies themselves.
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Re: Who came first?

Post by SuperForteX » Mon May 09, 2011 7:57 pm

VegettoEX wrote:What I'm most curious about is where these types of fans hang out and converse this way. I'm lucky in that I had the power to create my own community with my own vision, and therefore conversations like that are as likely to occur as Zarbon suddenly appearing on my desk and demanding payment for his upcoming college tuition.

I mean, we hear about crazy (young / inexperienced / ignorant / happy / enthusiastic) fans like this, but I seldom have the... opportunity?... to experience this kind of stuff, myself. At the risk of possibly putting other communities in a negative light -- which is far from my goal, mind you -- where on Earth is this happening? Is it real? Or are they just out for some common, everyday lulz?

I mean, it takes two seconds to look at the progression of the movies and see that Trunks already existed by the time Broli came around. So what's the deal, here?
Fans like this are an every-day reality. Hell, in my line of work you wouldn't expect to hear anyone talking about Dragon Ball, but on a plane ride, I overheard a group talking about how fondly they remember "DBZ" and were discussing "how many dozens of times Goku had died."

They listed that he died "about four or five times in Dragon Ball", then they started listing the Z deaths they 'knew of.' "He died to Raditz, to Vegeta, to Freeza," etc.

Do you think I bothered to jump in this conversation and correct them? Hell no. It was entertaining just to sit back and listen to it. This kind of thing I find to be relatively common.

Believe it or not, these "casual fans", as I've come to call them, far outnumber you and your kind, VegettoEX. Daizenshuu EX and Kanzentai along with it have gone greath lengths to dessiminate actual knowledge to the fanbase community, but there are so many casual fans out there who remember "DBZ" as something they watched on Cartoon Network, but aside from that, they don't delve into studying it.

You may reject this; but the fact is, if you took 100 self-styled "DBZ fans" off the streets, and asked them all about the manga, I'd wager a guess that at least 25 or more of them wouldn't know what a "manga" is, or know that "DBZ" was even based on a manga.

The missinformed exist in droves, and I find it difficult to believe you haven't encountered this. Surely you've been to a number of conventions and the like. Hell, not even speaking of an anime-convention, I fondly recall a conversation I had with someone at Comic Con in which he was explaining to me with utter certainty that SSj3 Goku was stronger than Super Vegetto, and that Kid Buu was stronger than "Mystic Buuhan" (this was the term he used), and he knew it was fact because it was said in a Daizenshuu.

Anyway, as far as on the Internet, you can see these fans for yourselves at a numbeer of sites like YouTube, FUNimation Community Forums, Pojo, Neoseeker, My Favorite Games, and many others.

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Re: Who came first?

Post by VegettoEX » Mon May 09, 2011 8:01 pm

I'm not denying the existence of casual fans with sketchy memories. I'm pondering the existence of die-hard, bat-shit-crazy Broli fans that are commonly referred to in hyperbolic fashion but I have yet to ever actually see with my own eyes.
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Re: Who came first?

Post by Kingdom Heartless » Mon May 09, 2011 8:31 pm

VegettoEX wrote:I'm not denying the existence of casual fans with sketchy memories. I'm pondering the existence of die-hard, bat-shit-crazy Broli fans that are commonly referred to in hyperbolic fashion but I have yet to ever actually see with my own eyes.
Yeah, I've got to say, I constantly see Broly fans being chastised as moronic and such around these parts, but I've never actually encountered one who is even as obnoxious as the people who put them down.
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Re: Who came first?

Post by SuperForteX » Mon May 09, 2011 8:44 pm

VegettoEX wrote:I'm not denying the existence of casual fans with sketchy memories. I'm pondering the existence of die-hard, bat-shit-crazy Broli fans that are commonly referred to in hyperbolic fashion but I have yet to ever actually see with my own eyes.
Ok, take a clip of Broly from one of the Sparking games where he's fighting someone like SSj3 Goku, and post it on YouTube. Make the title something along the lines of "What would happen if Broly fought SSj3 Goku" (Of course, make sure Broly wins, utterly demolishing whoever he's fighting.)

Come back in about 2 or 3 months and read the comments. Make sure you put Broly in the tags for the video.

You'll see them.

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