So, I Actually Kind of Like Broli

[Cipher]

And not in a silly, Japanese memetic kind of way.

I feel like he's supposed to be some sort of bane to the intelligent Dragon Ball fanbase, but you know? I can no longer ignore the fact that I think he's a great addition to the franchise.

It's easy to despise him and his movies when looking at his role in (particularly) the Western fandom. He's everything about the series that was improperly represented. He's a screaming, musclebound "HARDCORE" thrashmetal villain.

But ignoring all that, I think he's actually a great villain within the context of the original version of the series. He's incredibly unique among Dragon Ball villains, and completely unlike anything Toriyama would ever create. He's not silly; he's not maniacal. He is a psychotic, musclebound powerhouse. He's also utterly vicious in a way most Dragon Ball villains aren't (as they're usually tempered with ego, or humor, or some other element). A lot of that gets lost in the Western adaptation of the franchise, where all of that is part and parcel of the series' general tone. But in the original version? That really stands out.

Movie 8 is also such a radical departure from previous films, it's easy to see why he caught on with Japanese audiences. Up to that point, each film had been a flashy little 45-minute fight against a cool-looking villain. Movie 8 is pretty dire. Nonsensical as it is, the movie spends time developing a plot, the villains are more tragic and unhinged than in any movie so far, and the entire thing just has a much darker tone. It's the first, and nearly only, movie with any consequences within its actual plot. None of the villains up to that point have done irreparable damage, but this one goes out of its way to show Broli killing the Shamo and destroying their planet. Hell, a baby gets stabbed onscreen. Even Kikuchi's soundtrack for the film is a little more somber than the usual fare (a lot more somber in M1514). It's a very different experience, and a very different villain.

It's something else that really got lost in the Western adaptation, but Broli's also a much, much creepier villain than most in the series. Again, it owes a lot to Kikuchi's score. But he really goes outside the Dragon Ball norm. There's no humor and no agenda to him. He's just dangerously psychotic. I can't help but think that his transformation in Movie 8 and subsequent fight must have really scared the piss out of all the Japanese children seeing it in theaters. It's just so eerie, and so different from anything else in the franchise up to that point. He's pretty creepy in Movie 10 as well, although that's the only movie of his trilogy that I don't particularly enjoy.

I guess what I like about him is that, Western fanbase aside, he's a much creepier, and much more down-to-Earth villain than anything else in the series. He gets played up stateside because he's supposed to represent the series as a whole, but his true quality is in how much he actually cuts against its grain. He's not silly, he's not flamboyant, he's not egotistical or full of gimmicky magic. He's just really strong, semi-tragic, and totally unhinged. Is ... is it okay to like Broli?

[Kendamu]

Of course it's okay to like Broli. It's also okay to like the Orange Bricks, the DBZ dub, the DBZ replacement score, and "Step into the Grand Tour."

Okay, I lied about that last one. It is okay to like "Rock the Dragon," though.

I've said it before that I really enjoyed the second Broli movie. So, yeah, not hating Broli isn't a crime. Saying that, I do still think he's more overplayed than "Mmmbop" was in 1997 and you're completely right that he's portrayed (from an advertising standpoint) much differently in the US than he is in Japan. Therefore, he's definitely not on my list of "must watch again" Dragonball fights, but he isn't on my "For fuck's sake what were they thinking" list with the Garlic Jr. Saga or Bulma vs. Crab.

After TFS's take on it, though, I'm glad Bulma vs. Crab happened.

[Herms]

I like him in DBZ movie 8, and I like that movie in general. Outside of that he kind of does wear out his welcome, but that doesn't harm my appreciation of the first movie. I think it was a pretty good idea to resurrect the "legendary Super Saiyan" concept and use it for a villain. After all, the whole idea behind the legendary Super Saiyan in the main series it that he's the strongest guy in the universe, and if you're going to really use that concept in a story then you more or less have to have him be the bad guy. If your protagonist is the strongest guy in the universe, then there's no story (that's why in the main series there are always stronger and stronger villains popping up, and why Vegetto goes away so fast). And I like how the movie brought back the idea of the Super Saiyan being a warrior of rage. They toss that term around in the series a few times, and Ginyu says that the Super Saiyan will lust for destruction and slaughter, but then nothing ever really comes of it. Goku turns into a Super Saiyan, and he seems pretty mad at first, but ultimately he ends up getting bored fighting Freeza and just letting him go. That doesn't exactly scream "lust for slaughter and destruction" to me. So with Broli we at least finally get to see a certifiably demented Super Saiyan.

[Kaboom]

Oh yeah, I don't really have any problem with Broly himself, and Movie 8 is one of my favorites. Broly's pretty cool in that one, even if he doesn't seem that special compared to other movie villains (Tullece is so much more badass).

The problem with Broly, as far as I've observed, is the overblown amount of focus on him. Not just by fans who blow him... and his abilities way out of proportion, but now by official parties who capitalize on that and do the same. A moderately cool movie villain who was defeated in three separate instances (once by water) is now being treated like he's the omnipotent king of evil who can fight Vegetto/Gogeta and what-not.

THAT'S what gets annoying. Not so much Broly himself, but Broly being put on an undeserved pedestal. Come on, let's see Slug, Tullece, and Bojack get some attention via what-if transformations and plotlines in games. They're really no better or worse characters than Broly.

[Eire]

I've got such a good memories about getting movie 8 that I can't hate it, no matter how stupid it is.
I agree with Herms that Broli is convincing as a LSSJ, but before we see his powers we must hear the story that insults my intelligence. Tell me what drugs used those who wrote that story and believed that it can convince anyone over 3 years old. All kinds of explanations we see in movie 8 turn it into tragicomedy that I immediately want to rewrite. So good idea, witch such a potential never deserved for such a development.

[roidrage]

I agree. Broli's schtick got old pretty fast (sequels do that), but I really like the concept of an "extreme" Saiyan, whose personality isn't due to stereotypical "evil" as much as insanity. Unlike a lot of viewers, the kind of villains that are "calm", "calculating", and "polite" don't intimidate me at all (especially ones like Cell, who never shut the fuck up). Freeza's not scary when he's being "calm and reserved", he's scary when he's licking up blood.

I like Broli because he doesn't really banter or taunt, and there's no way to manipulate him. You don't get any of the annoying "attitude", you just get murderous rage, and the Z-fighters are consistently intimidated by that.

[The Tori-bot]

Of course, it helps that in movie 8 he actually has dialogue, in sentences, which is eternally overshadowed by "KAKAROTTOOOOOOOOO!". Heck, I even forget sometimes that he was fairly intelligent and even calm when restrained, before Goku and pals showed up. I don't think we ever saw the "tragic young man lost to insanity and obsessive rage" side that was inherent of his character at the beginning (and I'm sure would make a good fanfic), simply because that's not how DB works, and it's pretty much forgotten once the muscles kick in, then he becomes Crazy Broli on Ice, then giant sludge.

He just sort of fails upwards, doesn't he?

[JulieYBM]

Eh, I like Broli. Then again, I don't dislike any Dragon Ball characters, so take that as you will. He serves as an interesting concept that plays on a lot of the dialogue from the series about the Legendary Super Saiyan, so I really think he's cool in that respect. I also find it cool that his film is the only one that is significantly longer than normal. I'd actually like to see a new animation special or movie introducing him with Super Saiyan 3 during the Boo-era as I think it'd be pretty cool to see the three good Super Saiyan 3s fighting it out with him, structuring it around further myths about the parts the other Super Saiyan forms play.

Just ignore the fan crap and focus on the actual material, it makes life much easier.

[Sshadow5001]

Broly is pretty cool in the sense that he is shown to be like the Super Saiyan of Legend but I didn't like Goku's Toei Punch finishishing him off. I think it would have been better if the destruction of the planet killed him the way the "Original" Legendary Super Saiyan died.

I'm not a fan of Broly in Movies 10 & 11 however.

[Herms]

I think it would have been better if the destruction of the planet killed him the way the "Original" Legendary Super Saiyan died.

Where does this idea come from? Is it something from the dub? Because there's nothing said about the first Super Saiyan dying like that in the original series.

[Cipher]

I agree. Broli's schtick got old pretty fast (sequels do that), but I really like the concept of an "extreme" Saiyan, whose personality isn't due to stereotypical "evil" as much as insanity. Unlike a lot of viewers, the kind of villains that are "calm", "calculating", and "polite" don't intimidate me at all (especially ones like Cell, who never shut the fuck up). Freeza's not scary when he's being "calm and reserved", he's scary when he's licking up blood.

I like Broli because he doesn't really banter or taunt, and there's no way to manipulate him. You don't get any of the annoying "attitude", you just get murderous rage, and the Z-fighters are consistently intimidated by that.

See, this is what I like about him. That, plus his back story and Kikuchi's Broli themes, actually make him an incredibly creepy and unique (for Dragon Ball) villain. He's absolutely scary in Movies 8 and 10.

I should point out that I absolutely hate the way he's been played up by official parties recently though. Having him go toe-to-toe with Gogeta in video-game openings is madness, and his endless string of game cameos have gone past the point of being interesting. In his original three appearances though, I really dig him.

Well, I guess I actually dig Movie 11 for other reasons, and Broli barely has anything to do with it in the first place, but it is a nice little bit of continuity. His sludge-monster revival is also just silly and Japanese enough to work in a Mecha-Ghidora kind of way.

[Kid Buu]

I like the first Broly film until the actual fight starts, which just drags in my opinion. Its the same problem I have with the Street Fighter Alpha film, which I think has the same director IIRC.

[Herms]

Its the same problem I have with the Street Fighter Alpha film, which I think has the same director IIRC.

Yep, Shigeyasu Yamauchi.

[Kid Buu]

That being said Herms, wouldn't SSJ2 Cell Games Gohan make a good example of a Saiyan who was ruthless...referring to your original post here.

[Herms]

That being said Herms, wouldn't SSJ2 Cell Games Gohan make a good example of a Saiyan who was ruthless...referring to your original post here.

I suppose, but he snaps out of it pretty quick after Goku dies. It's kinda the same with Goku's first transformation: he starts off by telling Gohan that he won't be able to control himself much longer, but by the end of the fight he's reverted to the old "I'm way stronger anyway, so I'll just let you go"-type Goku. I don't necessarily mind this per say, but I wish they'd made some attempt to explain why Goku ultimately didn't behave the way the legend said the Super Saiyan would. With Gohan at least we've got the excuse that Goku's death made him realize how crazy he was getting, so there's an actual tangible point where his behavior goes back to normal, but Goku just seems to gradually ease back into it.

[Kid Buu]

That being said Herms, wouldn't SSJ2 Cell Games Gohan make a good example of a Saiyan who was ruthless...referring to your original post here.

I suppose, but he snaps out of it pretty quick after Goku dies. It's kinda the same with Goku's first transformation: he starts off by telling Gohan that he won't be able to control himself much longer, but by the end of the fight he's reverted to the old "I'm way stronger anyway, so I'll just let you go"-type Goku. I don't necessarily mind this per say, but I wish they'd made some attempt to explain why Goku ultimately didn't behave the way the legend said the Super Saiyan would. With Gohan at least we've got the excuse that Goku's death made him realize how crazy he was getting, so there's an actual tangible point where his behavior goes back to normal, but Goku just seems to gradually ease back into it.

Yeah, Gohan clams down after seeing that his behaviour is what led to his own fathers death...so it is understandable for me.

[laserkid]

Its cool to like Broli, he's a fun villain in his first appearance.

For me what I more tend to make fun of is how overplayed he is.

I mean in movie 11 he's a sludge monster, as previously stated, that gets killed by water.

I shudder to think what else they'd do with him given the chance...

[Silver Sinspawn]

I think Broli is legitimately decent, up until he starts hitting things. But, to be honest, I can't see why the game developers chose to give him that SSJ3 transformation. Vegeta's, I understand, it was to be expected, but, Broli, a movie character, just wasn't deserving. I thought Raditz, the king of being underplayed, should have got a transformation

[Savage68]

I thought Raditz, the king of being underplayed, should have got a transformation

And it was probably the best hope we all had of getting that "WHAT WOULD SSJ3 RADITZ LOOK LIKE" question buried once and for all.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

Where does this idea come from? Is it something from the dub? Because there's nothing said about the first Super Saiyan dying like that in the original series.

Well, from DB Wikia...take it as you will, as I don't remember anything about it. lol

The Super Saiyan was fabled to have been destroyed by his own power, and the filler visual in the anime suggests that his power destroyed the planet that he was on.