Pikachu use Thunder Smash

[shonenhikada]

What would happen if Captain Ginyu were to use his ボディチェンジ (Body change) technique on Gogeta, Vegetto,Gotenks, assuming he was successful of course ?

Also how come no one in Dragon ball has ever been able to get out of a full nelson ?

Example

[Darkprince410]

I think there was a topic recently in regards to the whole Ginyu using his body change on a fused character and then them defusing. As for using it on Vegetto, I'd assume that it'd be no different than using it on someone else, but he'd likely run into the same problems of reaching Vegetto's full power that he did in trying to reach Goku's full power when he switched bodies with him. With the others, once they separated I think Ginyu's conscious would die, since it'd just cease to exist once the fusion wore off and I doubt it'd coalesce once the two fused again.

As for the full nelson situations

Goku vs. Raditz - Raditz probably wouldn't have had any problems in breaking free from it normally, but he took considerable damage from Gohan's head butt to his chest, so he couldn't really break free as a result.

Vegeta vs. Gohan Buu - Filler to begin with, but regardless, that's an enormous difference in power favoring Buu. There's no way Vegeta could ever break free of that on his own.

Ginyu vs. Goku - Ginyu's battle power was substantially higher at the time (maximum of 120,000 vs. a maximum base of 90,000), and Goku was going to use the Kaiou-ken to escape if Ginyu hadn't let him go.

Really, the full nelson only really works if the person performing the hold is stronger than the person being held. Raditz was the exception to that, but the injury he received made it hard for him to easily break free.

[shonenhikada]

I think there was a topic recently in regards to the whole Ginyu using his body change on a fused character and then them defusing. As for using it on Vegetto, I'd assume that it'd be no different than using it on someone else, but he'd likely run into the same problems of reaching Vegetto's full power that he did in trying to reach Goku's full power when he switched bodies with him. With the others, once they separated I think Ginyu's conscious would die, since it'd just cease to exist once the fusion wore off and I doubt it'd coalesce once the two fused again.

As for the full nelson situations

Goku vs. Raditz - Raditz probably wouldn't have had any problems in breaking free from it normally, but he took considerable damage from Gohan's head butt to his chest, so he couldn't really break free as a result.

Vegeta vs. Gohan Buu - Filler to begin with, but regardless, that's an enormous difference in power favoring Buu. There's no way Vegeta could ever break free of that on his own.

Ginyu vs. Goku - Ginyu's battle power was substantially higher at the time (maximum of 120,000 vs. a maximum base of 90,000), and Goku was going to use the Kaiou-ken to escape if Ginyu hadn't let him go.

Really, the full nelson only really works if the person performing the hold is stronger than the person being held. Raditz was the exception to that, but the injury he received made it hard for him to easily break free.

Android 16 vs Perfect cell ?

[Darkprince410]

#16 didn't have Cell in a full nelson, just a bear hug. As for why Cell didn't easily break out of it, it seemed a combination of shock over #16 even trying to attack him like that and potential fear of setting off the bomb prematurely.

#16 comments that he has an extremely powerful bomb within him that he's estimated will take out Cell and the entire Z Senshi

Chapter: 406 (DBZ 212), P6.4-5, P7.3
Context: after No.16 grabs hold of Cell
Kuririn “No.16 intends to kill Cell!”
Trunks: “But there’s nothing he can do against Cell!”
No.16: “Please forgive me for sacrificing you all along with me. I’m going to self-destruct with Cell! [ ] This is my final power hidden inside my body, which I was to never use! Even you people will be blown to pieces just by being close by!”

So it'd stand to reason that he wouldn't want to risk detonating it prematurely by trying to escape, in case a more advantageous event should present itself. Sure he mentions later on that he doubts it would have worked on him, but I still see it as him just trying to rub in #16's failure more than actually believing it wouldn't work.

[dbgtFO]

^And then after we were told #16 had his bomb removed, Cell easily broke out of the hold anyways.

As for the other question.
If Ginyu swithced bodies with Gotenks/Gogeta, Ginyu would have a body that eventually splits up, so his soul would be evenly split between the two bodies, while Gotenks/Gogeta's soul would inhabit a body that isn't temporary.
If Ginyu switched bodies with Vegetto, Ginyu would have the most powerful body forever(unless he enters Buu insides without protection), but likely have problems figuring out how to utilize its power, while Vegetto would have a body that definitely would never split up unless he wills it to do so, but he would also be very weak...

[Insertclevername]

Whats up with the title of this? Are you trying to make a reference to this?

As for the topic, I'd imagine it would work, but I suppose Ginyu would die after the split up.

[Silver Sinspawn]

I have seen 7 threads, all made by you.
Not saying that you're not allowed, I'm just saying, couldn't you ask these sorts of things in other threads? Relevant threads must exist.

[Mjb1985]

Jesus , I don't remember Vegeta ever getting caught in a full Nelson like that by who is that Buff Buu?

It's unfortunate that Dragonball came out prior to the world finding out about fighting taken to its limits. It's only just recently have we discovered MMA and how style vs style works. It's a shame we didn't get to see how grappling effects DBZ. Grappling is a huge part of real life fighting and although DBZ is unrealistic , having a fighting style without grappling , the dominant form of grappling is unrealistic and would be better suited to include it.

[Ketchup_Revenge]

What would happen if Captain Ginyu were to use his ボディチェンジ (Body change) technique on Gogeta, Vegetto,Gotenks, assuming he was successful of course ?

I doubt he'd be able to go Super Saiyan since that seems like a learned ability. Also his base might be super weak like it was when he switched with Goku. It seems like you need a certain level of understanding of ki in order to be able to exploit the body's full power, I'd assume that the same would go for fusions.

[Mjb1985]

Ginyu is able to alter battle power, so I'm sure he could access Goku's power eventually. Not Kaioken though.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Ginyu is able to alter battle power, so I'm sure he could access Goku's power eventually. Not Kaioken though.

But does he have enough understanding of ki itself to be able to access all of Gokuu's power but Kaiouken? It's apparent that most of the soldiers under Freeza simply see battle power in a scientific manner of numbers on a scouter, rather than fluid and spiritual like Gokuu and co., and that they're only concerned with brute power. Even Freeza, who could control his battle power too and was much stronger than even Ginyuu, had to create suppression forms with which to control his power.

[Ketchup_Revenge]

Ginyu is able to alter battle power, so I'm sure he could access Goku's power eventually. Not Kaioken though.

But does he have enough understanding of ki itself to be able to access all of Gokuu's power but Kaiouken? It's apparent that most of the soldiers under Freeza simply see battle power in a scientific manner of numbers on a scouter, rather than fluid and spiritual like Gokuu and co., and that they're only concerned with brute power. Even Freeza, who could control his battle power too and was much stronger than even Ginyuu, had to create suppression forms with which to control his power.

I agree. It seems that ki has to be thought of as something universal in order to exploit a body's full potential instead of just a force for fighting. That was why Ginyu couldn't use all of Goku's power and he still couldn't sense ki, even after he'd taken over Goku's body.

[mysticboy]

Goten got out of a Full Nelson.

[CaptainKatsura]

As well as Goku and Tenshinhan in their second fight.

[Cipher]

Re: The really hilarious observation about full nelsons that should've been its own thread

Was watching the 25th Tenkaichi Budokai the other day. Trunks gets caught in one and totally breaks free without even having to go Super Saiyan. My jaw dropped.

Two more for the "No one in Dragon Ball (except Trunks) can get out of a full nelson" catalogue, though: In GT, Goku restrains both Super 17 and Yi Xing-Long, who are far stronger than him, by grabbing them from behind.

[Mjb1985]

I think the full Nelson in general is supposedly really effective anyhow. I'm pretty sure it was banned from wrestling it's just too effective. And in terms of fighting , specifically grappling , it's never used because it literally does nothing but hold the person. But in a group scenario it could be quite useful.

The real question is , how did they manga to break free from the full Nelson? It's super effective !

[shonenhikada]

wasn't Bardock in a full nelson ?

[Insertclevername]

wasn't Bardock in a full nelson ?

I believe he was, he got out of it by flipping the guy mid air, so he would catch the shot of his teammate.

[DBZAOTA482]

Trunks got out of a full-nelson without too much trouble.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Goten got out of a Full Nelson.

By transforming into a Super Saiyan, which would obviously make him much stronger than base Trunks.

Was watching the 25th Tenkaichi Budokai the other day. Trunks gets caught in one and totally breaks free without even having to go Super Saiyan. My jaw dropped.

He does? Well, since you mention "watching", I'll assume that was anime-only, as I don't recall that in the manga.

wasn't Bardock in a full nelson ?

I believe he was, he got out of it by flipping the guy mid air, so he would catch the shot of his teammate.

And the only reason he was caught in a full-nelson in the first place is because he was getting distracted by his premonitions of Gokuu on Earth. Beforehand, he was demolishing them easily.