Is Goku a Bad Father?

[Saiyatonian]

I've seen this topic brought up many times on other DBZ-related forums, but I wanted your guys' opinion on the matter. I mean, many people always say, "OMG PICCOLO WOULD BE A BETTER FATHER." Yeah, sure, he acts more worried when Gohan was getting pummeled by Cell, but isn't one of the points of being a father to push your child's abilities as well?

So what do you think? Is Goku a bad father? (Sorry if this topic has been done. I searched it and couldn't find it, so...)

[mAcChaos]

Not really. It's not his fault he died, or was constantly assaulted by world ending threats. When he does have a chance to be with Gohan he is great.

[Gonstead]

Goku may particularly not win Father of the year, but he's far from being the worst Father ever.

[Kid Buu]

He's not a bad dad, but just outclassed by Piccolo Daimao's amazing relationship with Piano.

[dbzfan7]

Toriyama:
Goku isn't interested in child-rearing, probably. He's completely unqualified to be a father. (laughs) He doesn't even have a job. Goku wants nothing other than to get stronger, and it feels like he doesn't have any other instincts. So he shows absolutely no interest in things he's not interested in. I'd bet he wouldn't have had any interest in marriage, either.

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/ ... ma-nozawa/

[Saiyatonian]

Toriyama:
Goku isn't interested in child-rearing, probably. He's completely unqualified to be a father. (laughs) He doesn't even have a job. Goku wants nothing other than to get stronger, and it feels like he doesn't have any other instincts. So he shows absolutely no interest in things he's not interested in. I'd bet he wouldn't have had any interest in marriage, either.

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/ ... ma-nozawa/

That's pretty harsh...

[TheGmGoken]

Goku was a father at the wrong time. Going by filler. He's a good dad. Just at the bad time.

[DarkPrince_92]

He's a dead beat. Eats all the food, don't pay child support, always gone... he's a father from the hood.

Nah in all seriousness, I'm sure he loves his son very much, but considering he lacked a father in his life, and had a Grandpa for a short period, how can you expect him to be any good as a father? Still a new concept to him I'd assume.

[mAcChaos]

Ah, forgot about the whole not having a job thing. But they already are rich or have an inheritance, and live off their farm so it doesn't really matter.

[Dalesy]

Goku would be a bad father in our world. In the Dragon Ball universe, he can train on the other side of the world and teleport home in time for dinner. He doesn't have a job, but he won an assload of cash at the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai, not to mention he became close friends with the President of one of the richest corporations in the world. He died a lot, and stayed dead for a good amount of time, but it was for the best. So no, I think he's actually a pretty good father, at least judging based on the reality of the Dragon Ball universe rather than what's expected of real life fathers.

[DBZAOTA482]

Unless you count the Majin Boo Saga (and lesser extent the Cell Games)then the answer is no. He's somewhat competent but he's got nothing on Vegeta-sama in that department.

[Saiyatonian]

I wouldn't say that. Vegeta's had his share of asshole-to-son moments as well.

[RandomGuy96]

In the Saiyan Saga: no, not really. He spends time with his son, gives his life to save him, says he's proud of him after, all that good stuff.

In the Freeza Saga: Yes. He stays away from his son for two years to learn new techniques and get stronger. And don't give me that "oh he wanted to control his RAEG" bullshit. Goku was fully in control as a Super Saiyan, to the point where he could show mercy to the guy who committed genocide, murdered his friend, broke his son's neck, and shot his enemy-turned-ally through the heart. If anything going Super Saiyan made him less angry than he would normally be. Remember him slaughtering Tambourine?

In the Cell Saga: mostly terrible. He takes Gohan off to train, but that's just because he knows what must be done. He also makes Gohan train in the ROSAT, but that was just absolutely necessary, and he takes the next ten days to spend time with his family. Where he gets bad is the Cell Games, where he gives Cell a senzu bean. Come on! I know you're confident in your son, but really? All he did was drastically increase the chances that Gohan would get the shit beaten out of him (which is exactly what happened) and that the Earth would be destroyed. His heroic sacrifice and motivation speech to Gohan redeemed him a bit, but then he just randomly decides to fuck off and stay dead, abandoning his family to get stronger. Which brings us to....

The Majin Buu Saga: He's HORRENDOUS here. First, it's confirmed he never even visited or talked to his family in the entire seven year jump, he just abandoned them flat out, meaning his son grew up without him and his other son never even met him until the tournament. It gets worse; after Majin Buu murders 1/10 the population of Earth, kills Vegeta, and even KILLS GOHAN (or so everyone thought), Goku has the chance to stop him... but doesn't. Instead, he SENDS OFF HIS SON AND HIS LITTLE FRIEND TO FIGHT THE GOD EATING MONSTER HE CAN HANDLE HIMSELF. What the hell? Some father you are. Prick.

This of course backfires, as surprisingly two seven year olds aren't really up to the task of learning this mega technique in a week while Buu is killing everything and then taking on the beast who murdered their parents. Some contrived events later, we get the birth of Super Buu, who Goku can't handle at all. Thus, Goku fucks up everything even worse than Vegeta did in the Cell Saga, and as a result all his friends and his wife die horrible deaths, along with everyone else on Earth. Everyone is screwed; the only thing that saves the universe is a last second plan by Piccolo, which unintentionally results in Gotenks getting Super Saiyan 3.

Later in the saga, he has a chance to somewhat redeem himself by finishing off Majin Buu after weakening him to Pure Buu. Does he? Fuck no. He declines fusion because it's not 'fair'. Hey asshole, this guy just killed everyone you know. Fuck fair fights, your family's lives are at stake. But I suppose that doesn't matter; as long as you get a good fight everything is fine. Unsurprisingly, he gets his ass beaten. And, as the final nail in the coffin, when he has a chance to finish off Majin Buu FOR THE THIRD TIME, he again decides not do to it, abandoning the idea of bring Gohan to one-shot him in favor of Vegeta's dumbass Genki Dama plan, even though he knows that Buu likes to nuke planets from orbit, and will likely just blow up the Earth again, killing his sons. Again.

This is why I don't think that the Buu Saga had a happy ending. The happy ending would be Super Buu or Pure Buu brutally and slow murdering Goku, and then being beaten by Gohan.

[Kid Buu]

Goku is a bad husband.

[goku the krump dancer]

For what its worth, Goku is a pretty good father just not in what seems to be the most traditional sense. Just about everything he does in "Z" is beneficial to everyone on the Earth if not especially his sons. He opted to stay dead at the end of the Cell arc because he realized that his son doesn't really enjoy fighting, so in order to give his child a somewhat more relaxed life he decides to stay in the after life in order to potentially keep the bad guys from popping up and Gohan would be able to enjoy life the way he wanted. If by some chance a new villain was to show up Gohan was now the strongest at that point so there wouldn't be a real need to worry.

[ABED]

I completely disagree with Random Guy's assessment of Goku.

He aint a great father, but not the worst either. Again, he couldn't defeat Buu, it's a retcon! It's not like Toriyama hasn't made great leaps in logic to enable a character to fight another more powerful character, the Freeza fight is full of them.

[RandomGuy96]

I completely disagree with Random Guy's assessment of Goku.

He aint a great father, but not the worst either. Again, he couldn't defeat Buu, it's a retcon! It's not like Toriyama hasn't made great leaps in logic to enable a character to fight another more powerful character, the Freeza fight is full of them.

I still have no idea why "its a retcon" keeps it from being counted. It is honestly getting incredibly annoying. It was written. Toriyama went out of his way to tell us this. What happened, happened. Thats the story. And the story says Goku is the biggest asshole on Earth. And not killing Fatty isn't the only bad thing he did in that arc. This arc just shows how truly little he cares for his family, and it's chilling.

[90sDBZ]

He isn't the best or worst but in the real world would probably get done for child abuse. During training he punches him in the face and he even hit him that one time to stop him going after Cell. In the world of Dragonball this kind of thing isn't taken too seriously.

I'd say the only time he was bordering on being an outright terrible father was when he stood by and smiled as Gohan had the life squeezed out of him by Cell.

[ABED]

I completely disagree with Random Guy's assessment of Goku.

He aint a great father, but not the worst either. Again, he couldn't defeat Buu, it's a retcon! It's not like Toriyama hasn't made great leaps in logic to enable a character to fight another more powerful character, the Freeza fight is full of them.

I still have no idea why "its a retcon" keeps it from being counted. It is honestly getting incredibly annoying. It was written. Toriyama went out of his way to tell us this. What happened, happened. Thats the story. And the story says Goku is the biggest asshole on Earth. And not killing Fatty isn't the only bad thing he did in that arc. This arc just shows how truly little he cares for his family, and it's chilling.

ANd it was also written that Goku said he couldn't defeat Buu. The best Toriyama could do to cover up that plot hole was to have Goku do things that are out of character for him. What's I find annoying is that many of you disregard his first statement and the leap in logic. He couldn't kill fatty but when the story demands that he's able to "actually I lied" doesn't work for me. Why would Goku let Buu out but not clean up his own mess? I have a hard time thinking of when Goku ever did that.

I thought Goku only stayed on Yardrat for a little over a year. That's understandable, since he wanted to learn a very valuable technique.

Gohan was in no danger of losing to Cell and any damage he took was surface level.

How was Vegeta's plan a dumbass plan? It worked. It's never a bad idea to count on Goku, he always finds a way, so even if he doesn't agree to fuse, I wouldn't bet against him.

[RandomGuy96]

ANd it was also written that Goku said he couldn't defeat Buu. The best Toriyama could do to cover up that plot hole was to have Goku do things that are out of character for him.

No. It was written that he could beat Fat Buu. That's the way Toriyama characterized him.

What's I find annoying is that many of you disregard his first statement and the leap in logic.

We disregard the first because he said he was lying, and there's no leap in logic at all. Goku's just an asshole, nothing out of the usual here. You're the one who's disregarding basic logic by saying "Nuh uh, this doesn't count!".

He couldn't kill fatty but when the story demands that he's able to "actually I lied" doesn't work for me. Why would Goku let Buu out but not clean up his own mess?

It's almost like Goku's an asshole, right?

I have a hard time thinking of when Goku ever did that.

He did it in the Buu Saga. Which is what's being discussed. He also let Piccolo Jr live, even though Jr announced his intention to kill everyone on Earth and easily could've killed Goku if he just caught him off guard one day, just because he wanted another fight.

I thought Goku only stayed on Yardrat for a little over a year.

About two; one year, 263 days.

That's understandable, since he wanted to learn a very valuable technique.

Don't worry Goku, it's totally fine to abandon your family, leaving them flat for two years, as long as you're learning more effective ways of beating people up. That doesn't make you a deadbeat dad or anything.

Gohan was in no danger of losing to Cell and any damage he took was surface level.

That's only because Cell was being sadistic and pulling his punches to drag it out. If he wanted to, he could've just powered up to full and punch Gohan to death in seconds. The only thing that saved everyone is that Cell has Goku's cells, and so is also a stupid asshole.

He didn't even jump in to help his son when Cell was squeezing him to death.

How was Vegeta's plan a dumbass plan?

It relied on using a slow impractical move to eliminate Buu, just hoping that he doesn't get bored and beat you to death while you're sitting there. Goku was just going to bring Gohan to one-shot Buu, but abandoned that plan. He shouldn't have, as that would've made everything way easier. Hence, Vegeta's plan is a dumbass plan.

It worked

It only worked because of pure dumb luck and several contrived coincidences. Vegeta wasn't planning on any of them; if everything wasn't contrived to go exactly in the heroes' favor, it would've failed miserably.

It's never a bad idea to count on Goku

he always finds a way

Chapter: 510 (DBZ 316), P13.1-6
Vegeta: “Don’t hesitate for my sake, and finish him off! With that Super Saiyan 3, you should be able to completely wipe out Boo with your ki once you gather it with all your might…!”
Goku: “Ye…yeah…I’ve been thinking of doing that as well since awhile back, but…I haven’t gotten the chance.”
Vegeta: “Eh?”
Goku: “If I want to wipe him out, I gotta gather ki for about one minute.”
Vegeta: “One minute?!”
Goku: “Dammnit~~~If it was with the Potara, I could have done it in one blast. …..Cheh~~~I guess I went and showed off too much.

so even if he doesn't agree to fuse, I wouldn't bet against him

Chapter: 512 (DBZ 318), P10.3-5
Context: still with the ki-charging business
Vegeta: “Ka…Kakarot…!! …Cut it out…! How long will it take? Do…do it now…N…not yet? Have you still not gathered the ki...!?”
Goku: “Da…Damn it…Damn it…!! …It shouldn’t be…It shouldn’t be like this…!! My…my power…my power is…Fa…falling off…”
*he reverts from Super Saiyan 3 back into his regular state*

Chapter: 517 (DBZ 323), P5.4
Context: after Goku tells Dende to heal good Boo
Goku: “Well, it’s alright, ain’t it Vegeta? This Boo and Mister Satan both did well. If these two hadn’t been here, then we and everyone else would have been done in. Right?”