How much did the score change affect your opinion of Kai?

[Sin]

Okay, so I'm thinking of picking up Kai on Blu-Ray soon, but I'm not sure because of how much stick I've heard people give the Kikuchi score. Is the score placement really that bad? Should I avoid any home release of Kai?

[TheBlackPaladin]

Well, Sin, if you look hard enough, you can find the home video release with the original Yamamoto musical score. They released Kai that way for four volumes, with Volume 5--and all subsequent re-releases--containing the Kikuchi replacement score.

I'd highly recommend Kai either way, especially if you want to watch it in English, as the dub for Kai is leagues superior to the dub for Z. However, I'd be lying if I said that the Kikuchi replacement score was an improvement. It was, in my opinion, a very notable downgrade. Not because of the music itself, I actually love Kikuchi's music, but because of how poorly-selected the Kikuchi replacement pieces were...which is to say, they used music selections that were inappropriate given the emotional context of the scenes they were used in.

How much of a downgrade? For me, it was enough to take the experience from an A- to a C+.

However, that's just my opinion. I encourage you to seek out the opinions of others. There are those out there who don't mind the replacement music, and some who even think it's an improvement.

[Fizzer]

For me, dubbed Yamamoto Kai is the definitive version of Z, far better than the original... or it would be, if it were possible to get parts 5-8 with Yamamoto. Kikuchi Kai, however, is on par with Z at the very best. The pacing, script and acting are still all better than Z, but the music placement really detracts from the experience, and strips any emotional scenes of their emotion.

[Sin]

So it sounds like the best way to go about this is to hunt for Yamamoto Part 1-4, Then just grab the remaining parts with the replacement score? Are the Yamamoto releases easy to come by? And also the issue would be that I'm a bit of an OCD freak and would much prefer a single consistent release, and I'd much rather grab the season sets.

[JulieYBM]

'Changing' the score cannot affect my opinion of Dragon Ball Kai when changing the score is a change, thus no longer being what is Dragon Ball Kai. My suggestion is to hunt down what you can if you would like to watch Dragon Ball Kai unedited. It's kind of funny to think fans ten years from now might very well not ever get a chance to watch Dragon Ball Kai unedited. It'll be like my generation not being too familiar with Before FUNimation.

[Gonstead]

My recommendation would would to pick up Part's 1 - 4, which are fairly easy to come by nowadays. Next, you can either go for Part's 5 - 8 or Season 3 and 4 since they contain the same material, just different packaging.

[Sin]

Alright, I'm sorry for asking a lot of questions that I could probably find the answers to by searching but I'd rather just get it all down here. So will I know which score will be on the release that I buy?

[Gonstead]

Alright, I'm sorry for asking a lot of questions that I could probably find the answers to by searching but I'd rather just get it all down here. So will I know which score will be on the release that I buy?

Part's 1 - 4 on the back of the packaging will tell that Kenji Yamamoto is the score composer. I THINK there are copies that say he is for Part 5 but that is simply a mis-print. Shunsuke Kikuchi will be in place of Yamamoto as score composer for all other releases.

[penguintruth]

Well, I always preferred Kikuchi to Yamamoto, and I think the repetition of the Kikuchi music in Kai is a tad overblown, so I didn't mind the switch so much, especially when there are several episode that have excellent music placement with the Kikuchi score.

That said, it would have been preferable that the show stick to the score composed for it and mete out a punishment for Yamamoto's plagiarism separately, like giving proceeds to the ripped off artists, rather than removing it altogether. I realize copyright law does not work that way, even though I haven't heard of anyone suing Toei or Yamamoto for the music rip-offs (firing him was obviously a preventative mea culpa). However, I did like quite a few pieces of Yamamoto's and felt they modernized the material a little without giving up the atmosphere entirely.

Both soundtracks are good enough that I still enjoy the show despite which one of them is used. It's still a version of DBZ that cuts a lot of the filler crap out of it. It's a flawed creation, a bit haphazardly constructed, but preferable to slogging through 291 episodes every time I want to watch that story animated.

[kei17]

If you have no problem with this, then buy the Kikuchi version. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqaBhnHgrmM

[KentalSSJ6]

If you have no problem with this, then buy the Kikuchi version. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqaBhnHgrmM

Please..please tell me they really didnt put that in there.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

If you have no problem with this, then buy the Kikuchi version. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqaBhnHgrmM

OK, I'm convinced now: The guys that did the music placement got so angry that they fired Yamamoto & removed his soundtrack that they purposely ruined Kai.

[TheRed259]

Words can't describe my sadness when I heard the Kikuchi score again in the 64th episode of Kai (English Dub).
It just changed everything to me.

Shunsuke Kikuchi is definitely the best DragonBall Z composer ever but they did mistreat his job in Kai too much.
Nagasaki and the others really dishonored Kikuchi's work.

I feel really sorry not only for Kai itself but also for the foreign dubs of Kai that they were forced to be in the middle of a ''Japanese fight''.

And now they are about to put new score for the Buu arc of Kai... huh...consistency at its best!!
The best anime of the world that got so bad treatment in other countries now receives a really big mistreatment from Japan itself.

[Sin]

If you have no problem with this, then buy the Kikuchi version. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqaBhnHgrmM

Wow, the truth hurts.

How is the score placement in Parts 5-8? Does it get any better? (Can it get any worse?)

[Kakarot88]

If you have no problem with this, then buy the Kikuchi version. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqaBhnHgrmM

OK, I'm convinced now: The guys that did the music placement got so angry that they fired Yamamoto & removed his soundtrack that they purposely ruined Kai.

I always just assumed it was a rushed replacement hence its overly repetitive nature and odd placements...were people in Japan supporting Yamamoto after the truth came to light or did everyone pretty much just disassociate with him as quick as possible?

Its funny to me that Yamomoto gets the boot for plagiarism despite actually reworking and chopping up pieces. Whereas, for instance, Vanilla Ice's "Ice Ice Baby" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rog8ou-ZepE simply added a simple symbol clap to the beat and somehow that was deemed uniquely different from Queen's "Under Pressure" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a01QQZyl-_Ior friggen Jet's "Cold Hard Bitch" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iay9gyLNdBw being near really dang simmilar to AC/DC's "If You Want Blood You Got It" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16la1h3gUxY then again AC/DC could prob give two shits lol...Japanese law must be stricter with regard to copyright infringement.

[TheBlackPaladin]

If you have no problem with this, then buy the Kikuchi version. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqaBhnHgrmM

OK, I'm convinced now: The guys that did the music placement got so angry that they fired Yamamoto & removed his soundtrack that they purposely ruined Kai.

Japanese law must be stricter with regard to copyright infringement.

I'm not sure any laws were broken...like Penguintruth noted, Toei removing Yamamoto's score seems to have been more of a "just in case" preventative measure.

For me, I think the worst examples of the Kikuchi replacement score were the one Kei pointed out, Goku's "I Am A Super Saiyan" speech, and......oh boy......the X20 Kaioken scene. That scene was--in my opinion of course--destroyed by the replacement score, whereas the Yamamoto selection for that scene was borderline-perfect.

PS: Sin, if you're keeping track, all of these scenes were thankfully released on home video with the Yamamoto score.

[kei17]

I feel really sorry not only for Kai itself but also for the foreign dubs of Kai that they were forced to be in a middle of a ''Japanese fight''.

So true. I always feel sorry when I hear faithfully done foreign Kai dubs being near-ruined by a problem on Japan's side. But if they hadn't immediately taken measures against the problem, foreign dubs could have been more butchered or even cancelled because of Hollywood's legal actions. It could have been solved earlier, but they at least managed to avoid the worst case scenario, I guess.

For me, I think the worst examples of the Kikuchi replacement score were the one Kei pointed out, Goku's "I Am A Super Saiyan" speech, and......oh boy......the X20 Kaioken scene. That scene was--in my opinion of course--destroyed by the replacement score, whereas the Yamamoto selection for that scene was borderline-perfect.

Was it? I think it was one of the worst placements in the Yamamoto version. Sure, the beginning is great, but it starts sounding too peaceful for a fight scene and it becomes really weird when Goku's Kamehameha gets blown off. The situation in the scene is desperate as hell, but hopeful-sounding music keeps playing.

To me, it seems that people glorify the Yamamoto version too much after getting the Kikuchi version. It may be better, but it was not that great from the beginning. It too was unprofessionally done.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

For me, I think the worst examples of the Kikuchi replacement score were the one Kei pointed out, Goku's "I Am A Super Saiyan" speech, and......oh boy......the X20 Kaioken scene. That scene was--in my opinion of course--destroyed by the replacement score, whereas the Yamamoto selection for that scene was borderline-perfect.

Was it? I think it was one of the worst placements in the Yamamoto version. Sure, the beginning is great, but it starts sounding too peaceful for a fight scene and it becomes really weird when Goku's Kamehameha gets blown off. The situation in the scene is desperate as hell, but hopeful-sounding music keeps playing.

I'm with TheBlackPaladin on this one. We see Goku going all-out and causing trouble to Freeza for the first time, bringing hope that he can do something. The whole thing gets desperate when the smoke clears, and we see that Freeza only got some burns on his hand.

[KentalSSJ6]

Speaking of a new composer for Kai Buu, does anyone know who it is yet? I assumed it would be the Battle of Gods composer.

[TheBlackPaladin]

For me, I think the worst examples of the Kikuchi replacement score were the one Kei pointed out, Goku's "I Am A Super Saiyan" speech, and......oh boy......the X20 Kaioken scene. That scene was--in my opinion of course--destroyed by the replacement score, whereas the Yamamoto selection for that scene was borderline-perfect.

Was it? I think it was one of the worst placements in the Yamamoto version. Sure, the beginning is great, but it starts sounding too peaceful for a fight scene and it becomes really weird when Goku's Kamehameha gets blown off. The situation in the scene is desperate as hell, but hopeful-sounding music keeps playing.

Haha, true, but the ending would be the reason I made use of the word "borderline." The beginning and middle were flawless, and then it is a teeny bit weird that it continues to play hopeful music after the Kamehameha is blown off. Not weird enough for me to consider it a bad music placement, but just weird enough to be noted.

However, I think there are different ways to look at the scene, and a sense of hopefulness is certainly warranted at first. I guess I don't really consider the X20 Kaioken scene to be a "fight scene." A fight scene to me means a prolonged series of fighting maneuvers where the focus is on the action itself, and that's not really what the X20 Kaioken scene was about in my estimation. It was more of an emotion-based moment than an action-based one. The emotional strength of that scene derived from Goku getting a second wind after nearly being brought to the point of suffocation, and passionately refusing to give up...that calls for some "hopeful" music as far as I'm concerned. I particularly liked how it started off quiet and then suddenly got loud as Goku gave his first scream.

I still think the best music placement for that scene, though, was the Kikuchi-DBZ placement. There we got the same sense of hope, but also the feeling of desperation at the end when the Kamehameha still didn't work.