Toriyama and Gogeta?

[Analytical Delusion]

Is the sketch in the Movies Dragon Box Toriyama's only drawing of Gogeta? Are there any others in guidebooks, etc.?

Also, somewhat related...has he acknowledged/discussed Gogeta the character anywhere outside of hypotheticals about a Goku/Vegeta Metamoran fusion after they defused inside of Buu?

[Hellspawn28]

I doubt he remembers Gogeta. From what I can remember, he had nothing to do with Gogeta and he didn't even design the character.

[Vice]

Pretty sad considering I like Gogeta's design better than Vegetto's.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

I do believe that is his only image of Gogeta. Though, while he probably wouldn't have shared the same design, he was going to use the Metamorean fusion for Goku and Vegeta himself in the latter half of the Buu Arc, but since Movie 12 had come out and had them use the technique before he got around to it, he decided to create Potara and introduce us to Vegetto.

[Analytical Delusion]

Thanks for the responses so far.

Pretty sad considering I like Gogeta's design better than Vegetto's.

I do as well. Do any of you guys have a high-res version handy? I just tried taking one, but I can't get the lighting proper right now without a flash, so there's a glare.



Maybe I'll play around in Photoshop tomorrow, and try to get a duotone of the sketch with a yellow background, along with AT's signature and "Dragon Ball" (EDIT: or maybe I'll put it in Illustrator and try to produce a vector).

I do believe that is is only image of Gogeta. Though, while he probably wouldn't have shared the same design, he was going to use the Metamorean fusion for Goku and Vegeta himself in the latter half of the Buu Arc, but since Movie 12 had come out and had them use the technique before he got around to it, he decided to create Potara and introduce us to Vegetto.

I remember reading that as well. Do you have a link to that interview? Was he acknowledged at any other point?

[Kaboom]

All I can think right now is, "if Toriyama had done a Goku/Vegeta Dance Fusion first, would he still have had Vegetto's hairstyle?"

[Herms]

It is indeed the only time he drew Gogeta.

Though, while he probably wouldn't have shared the same design, he was going to use the Metamorean fusion for Goku and Vegeta himself in the latter half of the Buu Arc, but since Movie 12 had come out and had them use the technique before he got around to it, he decided to create Potara and introduce us to Vegetto.

He doesn't quite specifically say he had been planning on having them using the Fusion dance, just that he didn't because it had already been done in the movies. If that makes sense. Also, I believe Vegetto actually debuted in the manga before DBZ movie 12 came out in theaters, but of course Toriyama knew ahead of time what the movie contained.

I remember reading that as well. Do you have a link to that interview?

It's from his Daizenshuu 6 interview:

What about the concept of the Potara?
That was simply, since Fusion was a plot point that was already taken by one of the movies, I was wondering what I should do; I had always been drawing earrings [on Kaiōshin], so I thought, “perhaps I can use these”…

Had you drawn them from the beginning, thinking that you’d use them as a fusion item?
No, not at all. They were just for decoration.

[Hellspawn28]

I always imagine Gogeta in his base form having hair similar to Goku. Vegito in his base form had hair similar to Vegeta.

[Analytical Delusion]

All I can think right now is, "if Toriyama had done a Goku/Vegeta Dance Fusion first, would he still have had Vegetto's hairstyle?"

Haha, good question. I'm picturing Gogeta with two bangs right now. Doesn't sit well with the vest.

Anyhow, here's the quote from the interview to which TheDevilsCorpse is referring:

What about the concept of the Potara?
That was simply, since Fusion was a plot point that was already taken by one of the movies, I was wondering what I should do; I had always been drawing earrings [on Kaiōshin], so I thought, “perhaps I can use these”…

source: (Daizenshuu 6 Akira Toriyama Super Interview) http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/ ... interview/

Fused Character Voices
A section on “anime effects” on pages 94-95 of Daizenshuu 5 notes that it was Toriyama’s idea to create the voices of fused characters by having the actors of each character say their lines simultaneously.

source: (section on “anime effects” on pages 94-95 of Daizenshuu 5) http://www.kanzenshuu.com/production/toriyama/

There were a couple of pages referring to the hypothetical fusion in the manga:

Chapter: 504 (DBZ 310), P9.2-3
Context: as Vegetto beats up on Gohan-absorbed Boo
Kaioshin-Kibito: “H-he’s strong!!! Majin Boo there is helpless!!! To think that merging with the Potara would be this incredible…!!”
Elder Kaioshin: “Idiot, it’s because it was those two that they were able to go so far. Two of the top 3 masters in both the living world and afterlife have merged, after all. What’s more, two rivals have joined together. That’s definitely strongest.”

Chapter: 506 (DBZ 312), P13.1
Context: still talking about how they’re no match for Boo
Goku: “…But there is one way we can win!”
Vegeta: “You want to say Fusion, right? Well who cares about that?!”
Goku: “Huh? You know about it?”
Vegeta: “I saw it from the afterlife…You’ve got to be joking! You think I’d perform those ugly poses…?! Anyway, I thought I told you that I’m not going to merge with you a second time.”

source: (Herms' Strength Checker) www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=15488

According to this page:

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/animation-styles/yamamuro/

Tadayoshi Yamamuro was supervised animation for Movie 12, and a Gogeta Character Design Sheet is linked. So I suppose he came up with the original Gogeta design (i.e. his face and hair, as well as color scheme).

I think that's everything out there.

[Analytical Delusion]

It is indeed the only time he drew Gogeta.

Though, while he probably wouldn't have shared the same design, he was going to use the Metamorean fusion for Goku and Vegeta himself in the latter half of the Buu Arc, but since Movie 12 had come out and had them use the technique before he got around to it, he decided to create Potara and introduce us to Vegetto.

He doesn't quite specifically say he had been planning on having them using the Fusion dance, just that he didn't because it had already been done in the movies. If that makes sense. Also, I believe Vegetto actually debuted in the manga before DBZ movie 12 came out in theaters, but of course Toriyama knew ahead of time what the movie contained.

I remember reading that as well. Do you have a link to that interview?

It's from his Daizenshuu 6 interview:

What about the concept of the Potara?
That was simply, since Fusion was a plot point that was already taken by one of the movies, I was wondering what I should do; I had always been drawing earrings [on Kaiōshin], so I thought, “perhaps I can use these”…

Had you drawn them from the beginning, thinking that you’d use them as a fusion item?
No, not at all. They were just for decoration.

Ah, you beat me to it. Thanks! Other than the two quotes from the Strength Checker (thanks for your hard work, BTW), does any other panel allude to the hypothetical Metamoran (or is it Metamorean? Apologies...) Goku-Vegeta fusion?

[TheOverlyMadHatter]

What I'm picking up from this is that if Movie 12 hadn't happened, we might've had something similar to GT's Final Battle (Fusion fails because they didn't expect it to end so soon , Genkidama comes back into play), or even something completely different involving more character development.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

What I'm picking up from this is that if Movie 12 hadn't happened, we might've had something similar to GT's Final Battle (Fusion fails because they didn't expect it to end so soon , Genkidama comes back into play), or even something completely different involving more character development.

It probably would have been basically the same as what we got, because Toriyama wouldn't have been hung up on the strength ideas fans have developed about the fusions post-series.

• Goku and Vegeta fuse, end up overwhelmingly stronger than Buu.
• Gogeta humiliates Buu in an attempt to get absorbed and save his family and friends.
• Inside Buu, Gogeta drops his barrier and defuses as his timer runs out.
• Buu attempts to prevent Goku and Vegeta from saving everyone, Vegeta refuses to dance again.
• etc.

[Blade]

All I can think right now is, "if Toriyama had done a Goku/Vegeta Dance Fusion first, would he still have had Vegetto's hairstyle?"

I imagine he'd probably just look like (and be known as) Vegetto, but without the earrings and be wearing fusion attire. I mean, Toriyama's train of thought as to how the two would appear as a fusion surely wasn't so heavily influenced by the fact that the method was different to that of Gotenks.

[JamesOwnz]

I like Vegetto design more than Gogetta.. so works for me.

[Blade]

I like Vegetto design more than Gogetta.. so works for me.

I'd love to see this mocked up, if I were a better artist I'd definitely have a go. Does anyone artistically inclined or with a dab hand at line-art fancy a challenge?

[Duo]

This is one of those few instances where I prefer the "non-canon" version to the "canon" version of an idea in the story. Vegetto was cool and all, but Gogeta's presentation in the movie is really really rock solid. From a cinematic perspective, he felt far more crushingly awesome/powerful than Vegetto ever did to me.

Of course Gogeta didn't need to get himself absorbed in order to save some important folks...

[Blade]

This is one of those few instances where I prefer the "non-canon" version to the "canon" version of an idea in the story. Vegetto was cool and all, but Gogeta's presentation in the movie is really really rock solid. From a cinematic perspective, he felt far more crushingly awesome/powerful than Vegetto ever did to me.

Of course Gogeta didn't need to get himself absorbed in order to save some important folks...

Maybe to some extent that's a bit of a flaw to Gogeta in Movie 12, in that his depiction was a little too stern and righteous. I think his depiction in GT is probably a little closer to how a merger of Goku and Vegeta's personalities would be embodied in a vest fusion, even if it was more-or-less a carbon copy of Vegetto's personality.

[Duo]

Sorry to say but I just disagree. Given the magnitude of the situation, Gogeta in movie 12 makes far more sense than he did in GT (Also, not sure why you brought up the word righteous, he just seemed very interested in murdering Janemba). And Vegetto can hardly be compared because he was not trying to kill Majin Buu. Both Gogeta appearances have the "fate of the universe" hanging in the balance. Gogeta in movie 12 delivers. GT Gogeta has no reason to act even half as silly as he did.

[Herms]

Of course Gogeta didn't need to get himself absorbed in order to save some important folks...

Well, I guess he probably wasn't trying to, but Gogeta did save that oni kid. I guess the Boo arc would have ended a lot sooner if Gogeta had just tossed that rainbow ball at Boo to make him dissolve away and have Gohan et al topple out.

[Kamiccolo9]

Of course Gogeta didn't need to get himself absorbed in order to save some important folks...

Well, I guess he probably wasn't trying to, but Gogeta did save that oni kid. I guess the Boo arc would have ended a lot sooner if Gogeta had just tossed that rainbow ball at Boo to make him dissolve away and have Gohan et al topple out.

I almost wonder if they wouldn't have just fallen out anyway. Didn't Vegetto blow Buu's head off at one point? Shouldn't that have killed Gohan and co.?
It's probably easier to just go "meh, magic," though.