Is Toei Animation the worst animation company ever?

[Flame Dragon]

Do you think Toei is the worst animation company in the world? I see a lot of people complain that Toei is cheap, lazy and moneywhoring.
And looking at things objectively, it sure seems so.

Toei animes are plagued by off-model shots, costant re-use of animation, bad coloring choices, lazy or cheap practices, badly written filler, slowass pacing and awful animation.
For example if i have to compare Toei with Studio Pierrot, it's exactly like they are polar opposites.

Studio Pierrot makes great animation, althrough they tend to save the best animation for the good parts of their adaptations, while the filler or uneventful parts of their anime get laughable animation. So the end product is really inconsistent and is a bit of jarring, i for one i'm bothered by this, because when there is a sudden shift of animators, it's really noticeable. Also i hate how they decide which parts need the "good animation", since sometimes they make really weird choices, like a major event having terrible drawings and animations (like Sasuke Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan reveal), and then a minor fight (Hinata vs Pain) having beautiful animation.
Toei meanwhile in comparison... just sucks. Really if you compare their stuff to other companies, it's laughable. But that's what
the thing is, Toei manages to suck COSTANTLY, so i'm not even bothered by the suckiness, mostly because i'm used to it, and also because it's more relaxing to the eyes than the GIANT SHIFTS on animation quality made by Pierrot.

Then when we have filler, i'd say Toei is better at it, at least.
It's like choose your poison, Slow Pacing and Few Entertaining Fillers (Toei) VS Fast Pacing and a Mountain of Horrible Fillers (Studio Pierrot) , to which i'll gladly choose the former.

At least with slower pacing, i'm watching something related to the argument, or even more character development, not to mention the few fillers there are, are hilarious! (DRIVING SCHOOL FTW! ), meanwhile, with Pierrot, we have fast pacing, but terrible canon to filler ratio (If you buy Shippuden DVDs you are pretty much wasting money on 70% fillers) and horrible, awful filler writing!
Who could forget that awesome episode of Konoha Soccer Moms VS Sumo Wrestlers!...
... ...
... ...
YEAH seriously that's a thing!

So in my opinion, Toei is terrible but more consistent. I also think that consistency is better in the long run.

But my question is, is that cheapness worth it?
Here's a question? Do you think that a manga artist that thinks highly of his work, would like to get an anime adaptation from
Toei?

Knowing that if he does so, his manga will be animated really cheaply?
I could see some big mangaka would have a problem with that, if he considers his work art.

[dbboxkaifan]

Disney's animated television shows and CN's have far worse animation than Toei's recycled content could be.

Still the worst of Disney are their "It's A Laugh Production" crappy unfunny teen series with laugh-tracks.

[sintzu]

Studio Pierrot makes great animation, althrough they tend to save the best animation for the good parts of their adaptations.

Toei meanwhile in comparison... just sucks. Really if you compare their stuff to other companies, it's laughable.

A comparison between one of the biggest moments from naruto and dbz :

Pierrot with naruto vs pain :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJd5WUCzREI

toie with ssj2 goku vs ssj2 vegeta :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AypfROi_DjI

Yep great animation on pierrot's side

EDIT :

Here's a question? Do you think that a manga artist that thinks highly of his work, would like to get an anime adaptation from
Toei?

Seeing as how they made dbz THE most popular and successful cartoon in the world i'd say yes

[Flame Dragon]

Studio Pierrot makes great animation, althrough they tend to save the best animation for the good parts of their adaptations.

Toei meanwhile in comparison... just sucks. Really if you compare their stuff to other companies, it's laughable.

A comparison between one of the biggest moments from naruto and dbz :

Pierrot with naruto vs pain :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJd5WUCzREI

toie with ssj2 goku vs ssj2 vegeta :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AypfROi_DjI

Yep great animation on pierrot's side

That's why i said it bothers me, because Pierrot is inconsistent as fuck. So much inconsistent that i find Toei works to be much more... pleasing to the eye.
Don't get me wrong tho, it was just a comparison, because i hate Pierrot too (for different reasons) and i think the Naruto anime is shit (doesn't help that the manga sucks ass now too).

Anyway, it would be more fair to use their more recent works for a comparison, since the old Dragon Ball animation wasn't really that bad, except for triangle guy.

[sintzu]

it would be more fair to use their more recent works for a comparison, since the old Dragon Ball animation wasn't really that bad, except for triangle guy.

I'v seen some of thire new shows which aren't perfect but at least aren't as bad as that pain fight

[ChibiGoku]

Pierrot with naruto vs pain :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJd5WUCzREI

Yep great animation on pierrot's side

First off, I'm going to end this here, right and now: That episode in question did not have bad animation, by any means. The animation director went for a style known as "Squash and Stretch", which is probably more commonly seen in American animation, as opposed to Japanese animation. He applied these techniques, probably to a greater extreme, than what most animators would do for their anime in Japan. Unfortunately, because of the style he chose to do for this specific episode, it often gets mislabeled as "Badly/poorly" animated, when it is not the case. The only issue is the episode could've seen a little bit more attention in one or two areas, (and for all I know, the video release could've fixed a couple of shots), but given the rushed production cycle Naruto goes through, that's to be expected.

I have seen nothing but people complain about the animation on that episode, labeling something they don't understand what the director/animation director, or whom ever may have been involved in making the decision for that episode, went for, and it irritates me to no degree. So please, do not drag up that episode. There are plenty of horrific examples of bad animation in Naruto, and that is farthest from being labeled as bad animation.

EDIT: To clarify, you can dislike what they went for on that specific episode. You are more than free to do so, just I want people to avoid talking down on the animation for that episode, saying it's bad and the like.

[sintzu]

Pierrot with naruto vs pain :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJd5WUCzREI

Yep great animation on pierrot's side

First off, I'm going to end this here, right and now: That episode in question did not have bad animation.

This is where i stoped reading .

[VegettoEX]

This is where i stoped reading .

Beyond being incredibly rude, this is simply not an appropriate response.

You need to either leave context and an explanation in your post, or you need to keep your thoughts to yourself. Why do you disagree? What do you feel is "bad" about the animation? Do you have familiarity with what the person above you is explaining?

[sintzu]

Beyond being incredibly rude,this is simply not an appropriate response.

It dosen't take much does it ?

Why do you disagree? What do you feel is "bad" about the animation?

Did you even see the clip before writing this ?

[VegettoEX]

Near as I can tell, you're simply being rude/indignant right back at me for offering up a (free, by the way) warning.

Yes, I've seen the clip and I've read the analysis, but this isn't about me. This is about your rude response and lack of any worthwhile substance in your post.

If you're not willing to put in the effort of an awesome, friendly conversation filled with great points, then we're simply not willing to have your posts here. Zero tolerance for this stuff. You're free to disagree, and more than anything else, that's what I want to read and hear from everyone: differing viewpoints backed by great, well-thought-out, well-written responses. If you want to wrap that up in rudeness, you're going to have to take it elsewhere.

[sintzu]

Near as I can tell, you're simply being rude/indignant right back at me for offering up a (free, by the way) warning.

Yes, I've seen the clip and I've read the analysis, but this isn't about me. This is about your rude response and lack of any worthwhile substance in your post.

If you're not willing to put in the effort of an , then we're simply not willing to have your posts here. Zero tolerance for this stuff. You're free to disagree, and more than anything else, that's what I want to read and hear from everyone: differing viewpoints If you want to wrap that up in rudeness, you're going to have to take it elsewhere.

Ok ok i'm sorry i'm just used to comic sites where (awesome, friendly conversation filled with great points backed by great, well-thought-out, well-written responses.) are very rare and (Batman can kill galactus because he's batman and if you don't like it F you) are the norm.

I'll try to be more friendly from now on.

[Flame Dragon]

The point is not that episode has bad animation, is that style does not fit Naruto into the slightest. I mean, you hear people saying that episode looks like Tom&Jerry for a reason. It was supposed be a SERIOUS fight, it was the climax of the entire arc, and the entire arc was dark and gloomy before. There was no reason to choose that cartoony style for such a serious fight. That's why that episode is hated by everyone.

[sintzu]

The point is not that episode has bad animation, is that style does not fit Naruto into the slightest. I mean, you hear people saying that episode looks like Tom&Jerry for a reason. It was supposed be a SERIOUS fight, it was the climax of the entire arc, and the entire arc was dark and gloomy before. There was no reason to choose that cartoony style for such a serious fight. That's why that episode is hated by everyone.

To me that should have been the final fight of the story but insted he kept going and...let's just say it's not that good anymore,it would have been a lot better if he changed certain things to were it would end after that fight but no he just had to keep going.

[ChibiGoku]

The point is not that episode has bad animation, is that style does not fit Naruto into the slightest. I mean, you hear people saying that episode looks like Tom&Jerry for a reason. It was supposed be a SERIOUS fight, it was the climax of the entire arc, and the entire arc was dark and gloomy before. There was no reason to choose that cartoony style for such a serious fight. That's why that episode is hated by everyone.

Thank you. That's the response I was looking for.

The comments I had more seen, rather than express that, have been more commenting of the poor quality of the animation, stating some cases probably one of the worst animated episodes, rather than commenting about the style and how they felt inappropriate usage of it for that fight was.

[DBZAOTA482]

Appearantly you never heard of Studio DEEN, Trans-Artists Productions, Dengo Pictures, etc.

[Flame Dragon]

Appearantly you never heard of Studio DEEN, Trans-Artists Productions, Dengo Pictures, etc.

You are... arousing my interest. Enlighten me.

[ChibiGoku]

Appearantly you never heard of Studio DEEN, Trans-Artists Productions, Dengo Pictures, etc.

You are... arousing my interest. Enlighten me.

Studio DEEN is known for their... less than standard quality of animation, especially in later years of their existence. Not that their shows itself were particularly bad, but their animation and some of their adaptations, lead a lot to be desired.

[JulieYBM]

Oy vey. Folks, Naruto Shippuuden Episode #167 is not some scapegoat to assign the title of 'bad animation'. It's not bad animation. If it's bad animation than so are a dozen episodes of Yuu Yuu Hakusho. It's wild, loose, and free from the constraints of other episodes. Episode Director and Animation Supervisor Wakabayashi Atsushi brought on three talented key animators and let them toy around to bring out the wild and feral nature of the Nine-Tailed Fox. Yamashita Shingo, who animated about 5,500 key and in-between animation drawings for the first six and a half minutes of the episode using flash, took that ball and ran with it. The three seconds of Pain punching the ground during Yamashita's segment are the only three seconds of the episode that look that like. Why? Pay attention to the dialogue. Pain tells Naruto "My pain is greater than yours". Pain is enough of a self-righteous bastard that he is disgusted that Naruto would dare feel anger and hatred towards him for his attack in Konohagakure. Pain thinks he's in the right because Konoha fought a war in his nation and tore it to shreds, killing man of his friends and family. The three seconds where Pain is deformed is an abstract visual clue that "Hey, this guy's logic makes no sense and is just plain disgusting!" Where are the complaints for the rest of the episode? Matsumoto Norio did the key animation for everything beginning with Nagato's first appearance to the end of the episode. He didn't draw exactly on Suzuki Hirofumi's character model. For that matter, Suzuki Hirofumi doesn't even animate his own character models exactly!

Episode #166 looks nothing like a majority of the other episodes of the series, but I don't see anyone throwing a fit over that. Or Yamashita Hiroyuki switching back-and-forth between two of his animation styles for Sasuke versus Killer Bee in Episode #143. Or Yamashita Hiroyuki suddenly animating the Nine-Tails' attack on Konoha in Episode #248 with a paint-brush style reminiscent of old Japanese art. How about Episode #322, directed, storyboarded, and animation supervised by Yamashita Hiroyuki? All of the action there is off-model! Fujisawa Ken'ichi and Kouda Masayuki provided an incredible masterpiece for Episode #322. Two hand-picked key animators assigned the most crucial cuts of a crucial episode in which the first-time episode director is a hand-picked animator groomed by the series director, Date Hayato, and the series' other regular super-talented directors.

Animation isn't about following character models, it's about expression. Whether that can be done with a single still or a cels doesn't really matter. The character model is at the beginning of animation, but art is the product at the very distant end of animation. Dragon Ball would be vastly lucky to have the level of love, talent, and money put into it Naruto has had.

[rereboy]

The point is not that episode has bad animation, is that style does not fit Naruto into the slightest. I mean, you hear people saying that episode looks like Tom&Jerry for a reason. It was supposed be a SERIOUS fight, it was the climax of the entire arc, and the entire arc was dark and gloomy before. There was no reason to choose that cartoony style for such a serious fight. That's why that episode is hated by everyone.

Yeah, its not bad animation per se, but its bad overall because its ugly, it doesn't fit and its overall not pleasing at all.

[TheAldella]

Nah, I'd say GONZO's prioritizing makes them the worst.