So was Freeza really the strongest in the universe?

[Kakacarrottop]

During the Freeza arc he was built up as the strongest, most feared being in the universe. In the next arc (The Cell arc) all the stronger villains were artificially created beings who didn't even exist during Freeza's golden days. The non manga/canon stuff (including the two new movies) isn't being considered. So what about Babidi and his men? specifically his henchmen Pui Pui (possibly stronger than Freeza) and Yakon (significantly stronger than Freeza). Dabura & Babidi were from another plane of existence so that kinda explains them but what about the other two? what are your theories regarding them and Freeza? I think Pui Pui was a strong soldier of the Planet Trade Organization who went off and became a warlord when Freeza died before being brainwashed by Babidi, and i assume Yakon was from some very far-off, remote part of the universe Freeza had never heard of.

[mAcChaos]

It's more like strongest in the (known) universe. Freeza was out there spreading his name, conquering planets left and right. Yakon probably just stayed in a hole in the ground his entire life.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

Pui-Pui was the champion of his planet. I doubt he was ever in Freeza's organization, though I guess it's possible. Yakon was from the Dark world or something. I don't know how strong Pui-Pui and Yakon are, but I assume they would've gained power under Bobbidi's control like Vegeta, Spopo and Yamu. This would mean they were likely much weaker before being converted by Bobbidi. Personally, I don't think Pui-Pui is all that strong, while I could see Yakon being stronger than Freeza.

I think Freeza was the strongest in the universe around that time.

[flashback0180]

Freeza was a cocky b@stard , he would have claimed he was even if he wasn't.

People he probably knew was stronger.
Cooler.
Berus.
Supreme kai.
Well to be fair, the kais don't live in the universe, it's a separate realm.

[Kakacarrottop]

And if non canon stuff is being considered then there is the Black Star Dragon Ball saga to think about. Most of the planets and characters from that saga were in some way connected to the Machine Mutants, a very recent race. Many of the strong Machine Mutants (eg Rilldo, Mutchy and the Sigma Force) likely weren't around during Freeza's time, but then there is Ledgic, who was never stated to be a Machine Mutant and presumably belonged to some random alien race. He would likely one shot Freeza, and the only explanation for him not being enslaved by or killing Freeza would be like Yakon, he was from some far-off remote part of the universe Freeza had never heard of. Although It was shown he knew about the Saiyans, which could possibly be due to news breaking around the universe that Freeza was defeated by a Saiyan.

[MasterVampire]

It's more like strongest in the (known) universe. Freeza was out there spreading his name, conquering planets left and right.

Yeah I think that's right.

At the time there were others that are stronger than him like Supreme Kai and Dabura but they kept to them selves.

I'm sure if Freeza wanted to conquer a planet that Barbidi and Dabura were on Dabura would crush him to Freeza's shock.

[ZazamPow]

Pui Pui was a joke, we were given no indication of his power level besides the fact that he couldn't touch base Vegeta, there's no way he was anywhere near Freeza. I'd compare him to Jeice before I compared him to Freeza. Yakon, too, showed nothing to indicate he would be any threat to Freeza. According to V-Jump, 1 kili = 50,000 scouter points, so at best Yakon had a power level of 40,000,000. 100% Freeza would eat him.

I believe that Freeza really was the strongest in the universe during his time. Everyone stronger than him in the Androids Saga was created after his death, and everyone stronger than him in Buu was in a different dimension or sleeping. I'm assuming Beerus and Whis were also in the dimension of the Kais.

Freeza ain't no bullshitter, surprisingly.

[RandomGuy96]

Beerus, Whis, Dabra, Kaioshin, and Cooler were stronger than him. Add Kogu, Bujin, Zangya, Bido, Bojack, Majin Buu, and Hildegarn to the list if you count sealed-up people as still being in the universe, and Pikkon if you count the dead as part of the universe. Of these, he knew about three of them.

Also, while Cold was a bit weaker than him, he could still easily kill Freeza any time he wants, because Freeza walks around in his weakest form of four (five?), and requires a looooong power-up sequence to reach 100%. And then he burns out soon after he does. Even assuming he can jump from 1st form to final form quickly, he still explicitly needs a long power-up sequence to go from 70% to 100%. If he stays at 70% (i.e. base final form), Cold kicks his ass. So he wouldn't even be able to defeat Cold, unless he transformed out of Cold's sight, somehow without Cold noticing him (it would take quite a while, and the effects would surely be felt), but was still close enough to Cold that he could then race to him and attack quickly before he ran out of steam. Freeza knew about Cold.

He also would be helpless against his brother's henchmen, all of whom are stronger than his 1st form, unless he knew they were coming. Add Kibito and Yakon to the list of people who can easily kill Freeza if they meet him on the street as well. They were on par with the Buu arc base saiyans, which puts them in the tens of millions vs Freeza's 530,000 in his first form, ~1 million in his second form, and ~2 million in his third. Freeza knew fully well about Cooler's three goons.

Also, Babidi could casually take control of Freeza's mind and make him shoot himself in the heart if he wanted to, so...

Yeah, he was definitely a bullshitter no matter how you look at it. Well, unless you're a manga purist, and don't think Cold is very strong. Or think that Freeza was just judging on technicalities.

[B]

Babidi is from another plane of existence(he's nowhere near Freeza anyway)?

He was the strongest active person who cared enough to attempt to conquer galaxies. The Gods don't care, Buu is sealed on Earth for a bazillion years, and Dabra is under the control of Babidi, who I guess hangs out on Earth as well.

[Hellspawn28]

Freeza never knew about the Kais, Buu, Dabra and the rest of the beings in the universe. To Freeza, he was the strongest in the universe.

[ShaneisMC]

Pui Pui was a joke, we were given no indication of his power level besides the fact that he couldn't touch base Vegeta, there's no way he was anywhere near Freeza. I'd compare him to Jeice before I compared him to Freeza. Yakon, too, showed nothing to indicate he would be any threat to Freeza. According to V-Jump, 1 kili = 50,000 scouter points, so at best Yakon had a power level of 40,000,000. 100% Freeza would eat him.

I believe that Freeza really was the strongest in the universe during his time. Everyone stronger than him in the Androids Saga was created after his death, and everyone stronger than him in Buu was in a different dimension or sleeping. I'm assuming Beerus and Whis were also in the dimension of the Kais.

Freeza ain't no bullshitter, surprisingly.

Whoa whoa whoa whoa, can you link that somehow with the Vjump claim? cause i really wanna see that

[DBZAOTA482]

No, he wasn't.

He simply spread his name more than the others because he's a greedy bastard.

[singsing]

Pui Pui was a joke, we were given no indication of his power level besides the fact that he couldn't touch base Vegeta, there's no way he was anywhere near Freeza. I'd compare him to Jeice before I compared him to Freeza. Yakon, too, showed nothing to indicate he would be any threat to Freeza. According to V-Jump, 1 kili = 50,000 scouter points, so at best Yakon had a power level of 40,000,000. 100% Freeza would eat him.

I believe that Freeza really was the strongest in the universe during his time. Everyone stronger than him in the Androids Saga was created after his death, and everyone stronger than him in Buu was in a different dimension or sleeping. I'm assuming Beerus and Whis were also in the dimension of the Kais.

Freeza ain't no bullshitter, surprisingly.

Whoa whoa whoa whoa, can you link that somehow with the Vjump claim? cause i really wanna see that

http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/dra ... 0828003717

There's no way it's correct because that would be saying Goku literally had 0 increase between the Freeza arc and the Buu arc.

[Hitiro]

http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/dra ... 0828003717

There's no way it's correct because that would be saying Goku literally had 0 increase between the Freeza arc and the Buu arc.

Not really. It could be saying that Goku had suppressed himself to his Freeza arc level. Not that he didn't have any increase between Freeza arc and the Boo arc.

[singsing]

http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/dra ... 0828003717

There's no way it's correct because that would be saying Goku literally had 0 increase between the Freeza arc and the Buu arc.

Not really. It could be saying that Goku had suppressed himself to his Freeza arc level. Not that he didn't have any increase between Freeza arc and the Boo arc.

That's kind of a weird arbitrary level for him to just suppress himself into.

[RandomGuy96]

Babidi is from another plane of existence(he's nowhere near Freeza anyway)?

Proof? I mean, I like the theory that he's from the Demon Realm along with his fighters, but that's not confirmed anywhere. Even if it was, the Demon Realm is still part of the universe.

[ZazamPow]

http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/dra ... 0828003717

There's no way it's correct because that would be saying Goku literally had 0 increase between the Freeza arc and the Buu arc.

Not really. It could be saying that Goku had suppressed himself to his Freeza arc level. Not that he didn't have any increase between Freeza arc and the Boo arc.

That's kind of a weird arbitrary level for him to just suppress himself into.

Not purposely to that exact level, that's probably just the base of his Super Saiyan.

[Galan007]

Whoa whoa whoa whoa, can you link that somehow with the Vjump claim? cause i really wanna see that

Here's an image you can actually read:

Spoiler:

[TheDevilsCorpse]

Babidi is from another plane of existence(he's nowhere near Freeza anyway)?

Proof? I mean, I like the theory that he's from the Demon Realm along with his fighters, but that's not confirmed anywhere. Even if it was, the Demon Realm is still part of the universe.

The Demon Realm is located in the universe, but its scale is very small, the size of a hideout for mages. The mages live in the Demon Realm like evil goblins.

I supposed it should be worth pointing out that in most guides and all that, Makai is listed as part of part of the "universe", as in Universe 7's cosmos ball, but it isn't considered part of the living, mortal "universe" where earth an all that reside. Also, the only one of Babidi's big three that is suggested to be from Makai is Dabra, the others are from the same mortal universe as Goku and Freeza. His lower grunts are another story though.

[CatouttaHell]

Yakon is way stronger than Freeza, heck he could theoretically be as powerful as Cyborg 18 or 17 IMO. Freeza just never knew about him since he was either in a different part of the universe or he didn't even bother to try to invade his useless pitch black, barren planet IMO.

Pui-Pui > Freeza can be argued if you believe that Babidi chose Pui over Freeza/Cold but meh.