How much weaker were Androids 13, 14, and 15 compared to 17?
Re: How much weaker were Androids 13, 14, and 15 compared to
Weak enough for the Z-Fighters to be able to destroy them at pre-RoSaT SSJ level.
I suppose Kamiccolo could destroy all the of them (bar Super13 of course) easily
I suppose Kamiccolo could destroy all the of them (bar Super13 of course) easily
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Re: How much weaker were Androids 13, 14, and 15 compared to
All of those Androids were basically around the same level or a bit weaker than the Super Saiyans, No Super Saiyan was a match for #17.
So #17 is stronger than all of them by a good amount.
So #17 is stronger than all of them by a good amount.
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Re: How much weaker were Androids 13, 14, and 15 compared to
Oh... so 17 could even take all 3 at once?
Last edited by Angelus on Wed Dec 31, 2014 11:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How much weaker were Androids 13, 14, and 15 compared to
Yeah, I figure that #17 could probably beat all three of them at once without any real trouble.
Neither #14 or #15 would be able to put up any real fight at all against #17, going by how easily #17 handled Trunks and how both #14 and #15 ended up getting killed by a single good hit by the Super Saiyans they were fighting. #13 might be able to last a little longer, going by how Goku (who seemed to be portrayed as stronger than Vegeta in the movie, despite being equal to or maybe even slightly weaker than him at this point in the actual series) was still fighting pretty evenly with him at the same point in the fight when #14 and #15 had already gotten destroyed... but he's still shown as being roughly even with the Super Saiyans, which means he's way, way weaker than #17 or #18 who are both strong enough to pummel any of the Saiyans into unconsciousness in a matter of seconds when they get serious. If #13 lasted any longer than the other two, it would only be because #17 felt like messing around with him just like #18 did to Vegeta.
Basically the only way #17 could lose against the combined #13/#14/#15 would be if he killed #14 and #15 and then made the mistake of letting #13 absorb their parts to become Super #13. In that case #17 is screwed. But assuming he finishes off #13 before (or around the same time as) the other two, he should be able to handle all three of them.
Neither #14 or #15 would be able to put up any real fight at all against #17, going by how easily #17 handled Trunks and how both #14 and #15 ended up getting killed by a single good hit by the Super Saiyans they were fighting. #13 might be able to last a little longer, going by how Goku (who seemed to be portrayed as stronger than Vegeta in the movie, despite being equal to or maybe even slightly weaker than him at this point in the actual series) was still fighting pretty evenly with him at the same point in the fight when #14 and #15 had already gotten destroyed... but he's still shown as being roughly even with the Super Saiyans, which means he's way, way weaker than #17 or #18 who are both strong enough to pummel any of the Saiyans into unconsciousness in a matter of seconds when they get serious. If #13 lasted any longer than the other two, it would only be because #17 felt like messing around with him just like #18 did to Vegeta.
Basically the only way #17 could lose against the combined #13/#14/#15 would be if he killed #14 and #15 and then made the mistake of letting #13 absorb their parts to become Super #13. In that case #17 is screwed. But assuming he finishes off #13 before (or around the same time as) the other two, he should be able to handle all three of them.
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Re: How much weaker were Androids 13, 14, and 15 compared to
Goku, Vegeta, and Trunks was able to go toe-to-toe with them at base level.
fadeddreams5 wrote:Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
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I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.
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Re: How much weaker were Androids 13, 14, and 15 compared to
...but then the androids also seemed to be fighting mostly evenly with the Super Saiyans, too. If I'm remembering right, Vegeta actually got hurt (fell down and powered down out of Super Saiyan and everything) in his final clash with #15 that ended up destroying the android--they actually made it look like Vegeta had lost for a moment there, with Vegeta on the ground and #15 laughing... before the android's head falls off and he explodes, anyway. It wasn't like with #19 where Vegeta just completely overpowered him even after having a good chunk of his energy drained. #13, #14, and #15 were pretty close to the Super Saiyans.
I'm guessing the Saiyans fighting #13, #14, and #15 in base form is more of a case of "movie logic" than anything else--the movies almost always have the Saiyans stay in base form for a longer period of time in situations where they really wouldn't be fighting in base form at all in the actual series, especially not in the manga.
I'm guessing the Saiyans fighting #13, #14, and #15 in base form is more of a case of "movie logic" than anything else--the movies almost always have the Saiyans stay in base form for a longer period of time in situations where they really wouldn't be fighting in base form at all in the actual series, especially not in the manga.
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Re: How much weaker were Androids 13, 14, and 15 compared to
On my PL list, I was thinking
Android 13 = Android 18 or 17
Android 14 = Android 20 (post absorbions)
Android 15 = Android 19 (post absorbions)
Super 13 = 2x Android 13
Does that work?
Android 13 = Android 18 or 17
Android 14 = Android 20 (post absorbions)
Android 15 = Android 19 (post absorbions)
Super 13 = 2x Android 13
Does that work?
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Re: How much weaker were Androids 13, 14, and 15 compared to
I think Android #14 and #15 were stronger than #19 and #20. At least those guys could put up a fight against the Super Saiyans, with #13 being around the same level as Goku. Once Piccolo shows up, Goku quickly reverts to Base, and Piccolo tells #13 he's going to kick his ass. I think this is the same Piccolo that fought Cell and #17 in the manga, so he's stronger than any Super Saiyan. But yeah, #13 is most likely weaker than #18.
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Re: How much weaker were Androids 13, 14, and 15 compared to
Goku wasn't really on par with 13 though, 13 was kicking him around. And weighted Kamiccolo is supposed to be > Android 18, so maybe unweighted Kamiccolo > Android 13
Android 16 > Super 13 tho
Android 16 > Super 13 tho
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Re: How much weaker were Androids 13, 14, and 15 compared to
I just re-watched the fights, going from the Obligatory Movie Base-Form Saiyan Fight (starting when Goku is trying to avoid #13's red homing blast) up to the end of Super 13.Goku wasn't really on par with 13 though, 13 was kicking him around.
#13 and Goku are fighting pretty evenly after Goku goes Super Saiyan, exchanging blows in midair and firing tons of blasts at each other with neither of them seeming to come out on top. He (and the other Saiyans) are only on the defensive (and mostly getting kicked around) during the Obligatory Movie Base-Form Saiyan Fight.
Other things I'm noticing from re-watching:
1: Purple sombrero midget #15 seems to be a good bit tougher than big muscular #14, just going by how Trunks and Vegeta handle them. Another "big guy and midget" pair where the big guy's weaker, just like the original Vegeta and Nappa? Trunks only gets a minor cut on his forehead during his clash with #14 and it seems like he willingly powers down his Super Saiyan because he knows he's done with his opponent, while Vegeta ends up crashing to the ground after his clash with #15, groaning in pain, struggling to get back up, and losing Super Saiyan due to lack of power. Assuming Trunks is weaker than Vegeta in this movie just like in the regular Android saga, that would mean #15 is definitely more powerful than #14.
2: #13 and Super Saiyan Goku seem about evenly matched, and unlike the other two Goku doesn't manage to finish off #13 or even make any real progress--maybe #13's actually a bit stronger than him, just not enough that they can't have a good fight. So #13 is clearly intended to be the strongest of the three even before Super 13 (assuming that movies will always depict Goku as the strongest of the Saiyans, despite Vegeta being implied to be his equal or better during the Android saga in the main series. Actually #13 could be the strongest even with Vegeta and Goku's powers being what they are in the regular Android saga, since #13 does so much better against Goku than #15 does against Vegeta... that leaves just enough room for #13 to be stronger than any of the Saiyans but still not so much stronger than Goku that he can't keep up.)
3: And yeah, it does seem like Piccolo is being portrayed as the most powerful of the fighters here--regular #13 seems to be unable to resist his grip even when he's still weighted and takes a second to recover even though all Piccolo did was swing him around a bit and throw him, and (as mentioned before) Goku powers down to base form shortly afterward as if his fight's over now that Piccolo's arrived. I think everyone was expecting Piccolo to step in and finish the fight here, at least before they realized Super 13 was a thing. Piccolo (after removing his weighted clothing) is also the only one who seems to be able to throw off Super 13, albeit briefly... aside from one weird moment where base Vegeta manages to hit him hard enough to budge him once or twice despite Super Saiyans and base Saiyans alike being unable to do squat earlier. And he doesn't even catch #13 off guard (like Piccolo does) or anything, he yells and runs in to attack while he's looking right at him... really odd.
4: It almost seems like the androids in this movie are being remotely upgraded by Dr. Gero's computer as the fight progresses. Like how #15 initially is so weak that he's damaged just by standing too close to Vegeta's Super Saiyan power-up "wind," but then he goes on to actually knock Vegeta out of Super Saiyan in their final clash, seeming to do a lot better than #14 could against Trunks (though not quite matching #13's performance against Goku, seeing how Goku couldn't find an opening to get a finishing blow in on him like the other two Saiyans did to their androids.) The only time a new fighter (or a new transformation) makes an appearance that isn't followed by the computer's "ANALYZING..." and a sudden increase in the androids' performance is when Piccolo shows up and throws #13 down, but I guess at that point the Super 13 transformation that's about to happen is a better boost than any minor upgrades the computer could do so it focuses on that instead of any further progress on whatever upgrades had happened before that point.
5: I would guess that Super 13 is stronger than #17 or non-weighted Kamiccolo (well, he's definitely stronger than Kamiccolo at least, assuming that's the Piccolo depicted in this movie...) but not quite as powerful as Imperfect Cell was right before he absorbed #17. So #16 is indeed the most powerful of Gero's androids, even counting Super 13.
So... yeah, back on topic... after re-watching their fights in the movie, I would say that regular #13, #14, and #15 are definitely FAR weaker than either #17 or #18. #17 and #18 are capable of easily defeating any Super Saiyan at this point in the series, while #13 fights Goku to a standstill, #15 is narrowly defeated by Vegeta, and #14 seems to be pretty easily defeated by Trunks. But all of the androids from this movie are more powerful than #19 and #20 going by their performance against the Super Saiyans, especially #13 who seems equal to or even a little stronger than Super Saiyan Goku. Or, if you want to go with the "Gero's computer is upgrading the androids more and more as the movie progresses" theory, they start out weak enough that the base Saiyans aren't totally overwhelmed but still strong enough that the base Saiyans have no chance of actually winning against them (somewhere in the range of #19 or #20 before absorbing any energy, maybe? or even a bit weaker, considering that #19 and #20 are later models and all) but are bumped up into the Super Saiyan-ish range to keep up when the Saiyans go to full power.
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Re: How much weaker were Androids 13, 14, and 15 compared to
I like the idea of Gero's computer upgrading the Androids throughout the battle. Never thought about that. I always wondered how Vegeta went from being able to take #15's attacks in Base like they're nothing to taking visible damage in Super Saiyan. Good stuff.
"First I whip it out! Then I thrust it! With great force! Every angle...! It penetrates! Until...! With great strength...! I... ram it in! In the end... We are all satisfied... And you are set free...!" ~Dante~

