How Strong are the Humans at the end of DBZ?

Lord-Gazza · Post by **Lord-Gazza** » Tue Mar 17, 2015 8:14 pm

Okay, this is one which has bugged me for a while. I normally don't like to get into the argument of who is stronger than who, but how strong, comparatively, are Tien, Kuririn, Yamacha etc at the end of DBZ? Could they conceivable take on Frieza? If we accept the weird filler in which they defeat the Ginyus then they have to be that powerful, but we have no real indicator beyond that do we? As far as I am aware there is nothing about it in the Daizenshuu.

DBZAOTA482 · Post by **DBZAOTA482** » Tue Mar 17, 2015 8:21 pm

Kuririn, Tenshinhan, and Yamcha are probably strong enough to beat 2nd Form Freeza with confidence individually.

As for the others.....

Bulma: 2 (estimate)
Muten Roshi: 139, 180 (maxed out)
Chi-Chi: 300 or 400 (estimate) ; probably more
Chaozu: 70,000 (estimate)
Yajirobe: 970
Mr. Satan: 5.5 (estimate)
Videl: 6 or 7 (estimate)
Farmer with Shotgun: 5

Lord Beerus · Post by **Lord Beerus** » Tue Mar 17, 2015 8:55 pm

DBZAOTA482 wrote:Kuririn, Tenshinhan, and Yamcha are probably strong enough to beat 2nd Form Freeza with confidence individually.

As for the others.....

Bulma: 2 (estimate)
Muten Roshi: 139, 180 (maxed out)
Chi-Chi: 300 or 400 (estimate) ; probably more
Chaozu: 70,000 (estimate)
Yajirobe: 970
Mr. Satan: 5.5 (estimate)
Videl: 6 or 7 (estimate)
Farmer with Shotgun: 5

Yeah, that sounds about right. But I would have Videl's BP around 30-50.

DBZAOTA482 · Post by **DBZAOTA482** » Tue Mar 17, 2015 9:02 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:
DBZAOTA482 wrote:Kuririn, Tenshinhan, and Yamcha are probably strong enough to beat 2nd Form Freeza with confidence individually.

As for the others.....

Bulma: 2 (estimate)
Muten Roshi: 139, 180 (maxed out)
Chi-Chi: 300 or 400 (estimate) ; probably more
Chaozu: 70,000 (estimate)
Yajirobe: 970
Mr. Satan: 5.5 (estimate)
Videl: 6 or 7 (estimate)
Farmer with Shotgun: 5
Yeah, that sounds about right. But I would have Videl's BP around 30-50.

SSJ2FutureGohan · Post by **SSJ2FutureGohan** » Tue Mar 17, 2015 9:03 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:Yeah, that sounds about right. But I would have Videl's BP around 30-50.

10x stronger than an average human? You think Videl could straight up tank a punch to the face from a man?

Lord Beerus · Post by **Lord Beerus** » Tue Mar 17, 2015 9:35 pm

DBZAOTA482 wrote:Y

To be fair, the bullet ricocheted and she wasn't expecting it.

But you make a good point regardless.

SSJ2FutureGohan wrote:10x stronger than an average human? You think Videl could straight up tank a punch to the face from a man?

If she can cause someones head to rotate 180 degrees with one kick, all bets are off.

Hugo Boss · Post by **Hugo Boss** » Tue Mar 17, 2015 9:39 pm

Lord-Gazza wrote:Could they conceivable take on Freeza?

I don't think so, but I believe they can beat the Ginyu Force. Assuming you have Kuririn and Tenshinhan as they are in Ressurrection F at least.

SSJ2FutureGohan · Post by **SSJ2FutureGohan** » Tue Mar 17, 2015 9:43 pm

Yeah, no humans come close to Freeza, lol. I think they max out in the early millions.

Krillin:
Androids: 4,000,000
Buu: 5,000,000

Tenshinhan:
Androids: 3,000,000
Buu: 4,000,000

Yamcha:
Androids: 2,000,000
Buu: 1,600,000

singsing · Post by **singsing** » Tue Mar 17, 2015 11:09 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:
DBZAOTA482 wrote:Y
To be fair, the bullet ricocheted and she wasn't expecting it.

But you make a good point regardless.

SSJ2FutureGohan wrote:10x stronger than an average human? You think Videl could straight up tank a punch to the face from a man?
If she can cause someones head to rotate 180 degrees with one kick, all bets are off.

Goku could tank bullets while not expecting it as a child with a PL of 10. Granted he has his Saiyan physiology, but still. I'm fairly certain Videl never broke double digits.

ZazamPow · Post by **ZazamPow** » Tue Mar 17, 2015 11:17 pm

Goku's power level in the beginning of the series was 10, about twice as strong as the average farmer with a shotgun. This makes sense given his abilities; he can survive bullets, but they are like strong punches as opposed to bee stings after training with Roshi, and he lifted a small car but only with a lot of difficulty. I think Mr. Satan would fit at around 7, and Videl is stronger than him so like 7.5.

The idea behind the Ginyu Force fight was that even while dead, the humans are still making gains of their own so that they can continue to keep up with the base Saiyans in the same way that they have. I'd argue that the gap between Tien and base Goku is only as wide as it was during the 23ed Budokai at worst, and during the 22nd Budokai at best, while Krillin and Yamcha are both 23ed Budokai (meaning Krillin is right behind, but Yamcha is pretty far back)

singsing · Post by **singsing** » Tue Mar 17, 2015 11:30 pm

You have the humans in high double digit millions?? Shit and I thought I was a strong advocate for humans not being weak.

ZazamPow · Post by **ZazamPow** » Tue Mar 17, 2015 11:35 pm

singsing wrote:You have the humans in high double digit millions?? Shit and I thought I was a strong advocate for humans not being weak.

In the anime at least, they have plenty to prove that they never let the base Saiyans get much of a lead on them. The aforementioned Ginyu Force fight implies that they were actually much stronger than Vegeta on Namek until his Zenkai against Reccoom, and if they continued training they would have caught up once again. Tien also has his stalemate against Trunks in Bojack, directly proving that he can keep up.

dbzfan7 · Post by **dbzfan7** » Tue Mar 17, 2015 11:39 pm

They go no higher than 10,000,000. By them I mean Krillin, Tenshinhan, and maybe Yamcha. Chaozu is lower than that. I can see them never reaching 1st form Freeza level too possibly. Only statement I find worth note is how Gero thought their energy was worth something and would help him beat Vegeta.

Saiga · Post by **Saiga** » Wed Mar 18, 2015 5:24 am

The problem I have with taking Android arc statements to put them in the low millions is that still wouldn't work out. If Gero absorbed 5-10 million from the humans he should still get wrecked by Vegeta.

So I have to just dismiss that as Gero being really crappy at measuring battle power.

dbgtFO · Post by **dbgtFO** » Wed Mar 18, 2015 7:12 am

Saiga wrote:So I have to just dismiss that as Gero being really crappy at measuring battle power.

Nothing says he's even measuring their battle power to begin with. To me he's just speculating, because everyone would obviously have been suppressed to a low level until fighting just like Piccolo was.

Bullza · Post by **Bullza** » Wed Mar 18, 2015 12:14 pm

Mr. Satan: 5.5 (estimate)
Farmer with Shotgun: 5

I'm sure the "worlds strongest" guy is more than 10% stronger than some pudgy farmer.

rereboy · Post by **rereboy** » Wed Mar 18, 2015 12:18 pm

Power levels don't really make sense for stuff before Radditz appeared. Given the progression of the characters in Dragon Ball, how they compare to regular folk, and how better they become after training, and taking into consideration the times that a character has stated that he has become several times stronger, for power levels to make sense for stuff before Radditz, Radditz's power level, as well as everybody else, would have to be much higher while the farmer's power level would remain the same.

Diotor · Post by **Diotor** » Wed Mar 18, 2015 12:42 pm

Chi-Chi: 300 or 400 (estimate) ; probably more

As strong as Piccolo and Goku vs. Raditz? I'd probably say she barely went over 150-170.

DBZAOTA482 · Post by **DBZAOTA482** » Wed Mar 18, 2015 12:47 pm

Diotor wrote:
Chi-Chi: 300 or 400 (estimate) ; probably more
As strong as Piccolo and Goku vs. Raditz? I'd probably say she barely went over 150-170.

Yes, she taught Goten how to fight and made him a great fighter. She can't possibly do that without having the kid fight her on a level.

Super SaiyaJon · Post by **Super SaiyaJon** » Wed Mar 18, 2015 1:21 pm

DBZAOTA482 wrote: Yes, she taught Goten how to fight and made him a great fighter. She can't possibly do that without having the kid fight her on a level.

She taught Goten. She probably "demonstrated" form and "technique." Perhaps she got Goten to do some physically straining tasks to raise his strength. She didn't have to spar with him.

While I'm here, I might as well show my power levels:

Bulma: 2
Chi-Chi: 120
Mr. Satan: 7
Videl: 9
Farmer: 5

Kanzenshuu

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