Why was Piccolo "afraid" of East Kaioshin?
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Why was Piccolo "afraid" of East Kaioshin?
He heasn't been that impressive after all. Beside Piccolo saying he is "far from his dimension" Kaioshin was barely on the level of a regular Super Saiyan.
He pissed himself more than once seeing their "not even full strength" and even was afraid of some minor foes Yakon and Dabura.
I simply can't believe that a Super Namekian like Piccolo has fallen so much behind a regular non serious Super Saiyan or a trainless Gohan that he could be afraid of Kaioshin
He pissed himself more than once seeing their "not even full strength" and even was afraid of some minor foes Yakon and Dabura.
I simply can't believe that a Super Namekian like Piccolo has fallen so much behind a regular non serious Super Saiyan or a trainless Gohan that he could be afraid of Kaioshin
Re: Why was Piccolo "afraid" of Easter Kaioshin?
I don't think Supreme Kai being afraid of Dabura necessarily implies he was weaker than him, just that he knew Dabura was a danger and could potentially cause trouble. I mean if a professional boxer was mugged by an average guy, the boxer has a good chance of defending himself, but that doesn't mean he doesn't mind being attacked. If Supreme Kai WAS weaker (which is entirely possible, especially with the Majin powerup) I would assume it wasn't by much, as he needs to be somewhere around Cell level in order to be considered "dimensions apart" from Piccolo, IMO.
There's also the theory that Piccolo bowed out not from fear of his opponent's power, but out of respect for his position.
There's also the theory that Piccolo bowed out not from fear of his opponent's power, but out of respect for his position.
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Re: Why was Piccolo "afraid" of Easter Kaioshin?
Because Kaioshin was much stronger than Piccolo.
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Re: Why was Piccolo "afraid" of Easter Kaioshin?
As mentioned above, I personally believe Piccolo just backed down out of respect.
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Re: Why was Piccolo "afraid" of East Kaioshin?
It wasn't fear of his power. Kaioshin may or may not be stronger than Piccolo, but the reason Piccolo was shocked over his presence was because he knew Kaioshin was, well, THE Kaioshin. The god above gods. It was Kami's half of Piccolo showing this "fear" and respect.
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Re: Why was Piccolo "afraid" of East Kaioshin?
That and also the fact that Kaioshin was indeed in a whole different league in terms of power in comparison to Piccolo.fadeddreams5 wrote:It wasn't fear of his power. Kaioshin may or may not be stronger than Piccolo, but the reason Piccolo was shocked over his presence was because he knew Kaioshin was, well, THE Kaioshin. The god above gods. It was Kami's half of Piccolo showing this "fear" and respect.
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Re: Why was Piccolo "afraid" of East Kaioshin?
Kaioshin said Piccolo must've sensed who he was, so I'll go with that. Not that Kaioshin isn't stronger than Piccolo, but I don't think his power was a reason why Piccolo backed down. No one could sense Kaioshin's actual power, anyway.
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Re: Why was Piccolo "afraid" of East Kaioshin?
I always thought the general consensus on this whole thing was that he was just showing "respect". Story wise it seems pretty obvious, plus its the whole reason Piccolo specifically was matched with him, he was the only one he could possibly grasp who he was dealing with. As far as why I take this position, well
.No one can actually sense Kaioshin's power due to nature of God ki. So how exactly can one be terrified of it? Although if he did sense who he was it is fair to assume that he may have made an assumption as to what Kaioshin was capable of and came to the conclusion that "their dimensions were too different". Still it was guess work, and perception/reputation more so than actual strength that made him forfeit.
.He was prepared to fight at the very least SS Vegeta (whom he couldn't have expected to hold back), Goku and Gohan who are definitely within the realm of strength (physically) that Kaioshin possesses (I believe its fair to say he was not at SS2 level), without being terrified or afraid of their power.
.It generally seems out of character for him to bow out like that...although he was out of character the entire arc when I really think about it
.No one can actually sense Kaioshin's power due to nature of God ki. So how exactly can one be terrified of it? Although if he did sense who he was it is fair to assume that he may have made an assumption as to what Kaioshin was capable of and came to the conclusion that "their dimensions were too different". Still it was guess work, and perception/reputation more so than actual strength that made him forfeit.
.He was prepared to fight at the very least SS Vegeta (whom he couldn't have expected to hold back), Goku and Gohan who are definitely within the realm of strength (physically) that Kaioshin possesses (I believe its fair to say he was not at SS2 level), without being terrified or afraid of their power.
.It generally seems out of character for him to bow out like that...although he was out of character the entire arc when I really think about it

Re: Why was Piccolo "afraid" of East Kaioshin?
It wasn't respect. Kaioshin bid him to have fun and fight him at the tournament. Piccolo's response was to forfeit anyway. Respecting Kaioshin's wishes would have been had he respected Kaioshin's verbally given wishes.
Piccolo was nowhere near Gohan and Goku's SSJ strength during the Cell Games. SSJ2 is double that strength. There's no way Piccolo surpassed that level in the seven-year gap, especially since he would have had no need to train as much as possible every single day of that gap. I don't see him catching up to semi-perfect Cell, let alone surpassing SSJ2 strength.
Piccolo was nowhere near Gohan and Goku's SSJ strength during the Cell Games. SSJ2 is double that strength. There's no way Piccolo surpassed that level in the seven-year gap, especially since he would have had no need to train as much as possible every single day of that gap. I don't see him catching up to semi-perfect Cell, let alone surpassing SSJ2 strength.
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Re: Why was Piccolo "afraid" of East Kaioshin?
Piccolo was doing okay against the Cell Jr. I doubt he's weaker than Super Vegeta or Semi-Cell after the rosat training.
He knew something was up with Kaioshin, which is why he hesitated to fight.
He knew something was up with Kaioshin, which is why he hesitated to fight.
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Re: Why was Piccolo "afraid" of East Kaioshin?
He was stronger than semi perfect Cell after training in the ROSATDayspring wrote:It wasn't respect. Kaioshin bid him to have fun and fight him at the tournament. Piccolo's response was to forfeit anyway. Respecting Kaioshin's wishes would have been had he respected Kaioshin's verbally given wishes.
Piccolo was nowhere near Gohan and Goku's SSJ strength during the Cell Games. SSJ2 is double that strength. There's no way Piccolo surpassed that level in the seven-year gap, especially since he would have had no need to train as much as possible every single day of that gap. I don't see him catching up to semi-perfect Cell, let alone surpassing SSJ2 strength.
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Re: Why was Piccolo "afraid" of East Kaioshin?
But Piccolo says that Kaioshin is stronger than him...Super Saiyan Turlast x4 wrote:Kaioshin said Piccolo must've sensed who he was, so I'll go with that. Not that Kaioshin isn't stronger than Piccolo, but I don't think his power was a reason why Piccolo backed down. No one could sense Kaioshin's actual power, anyway.
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Re: Why was Piccolo "afraid" of East Kaioshin?
I think you're kinda missing the point, we're not debating whether or not Piccolo surpassed Gohan from the Cell games, he most certainly didn't, what we're debating is why he forfeit against the Kaioshin, fear of his strength or respect for who the character was. Now I don't think he anticipated Gohan to use SS2 and was more inclined to believe he would be dealing with SS levels, which the last time we saw him he was very much in the realm of, main point being he was willing to engage with characters of that caliber in that particular setting. Furthermore, and I will say it again, how could he have forfeit for no other reason but respect for who Kaioshin was when no one could actually sense his power level?Dayspring wrote:It wasn't respect. Kaioshin bid him to have fun and fight him at the tournament. Piccolo's response was to forfeit anyway. Respecting Kaioshin's wishes would have been had he respected Kaioshin's verbally given wishes.
Piccolo was nowhere near Gohan and Goku's SSJ strength during the Cell Games. SSJ2 is double that strength. There's no way Piccolo surpassed that level in the seven-year gap, especially since he would have had no need to train as much as possible every single day of that gap. I don't see him catching up to semi-perfect Cell, let alone surpassing SSJ2 strength.
In summary how could he have quite out of fear when he simply couldn't know how powerful Kaioshin was, and more importantly even if he did sense his power, he was already prepared to do battle with characters who were undoubtedly more powerful. So anyway you slice it, the forfeit was not to do with any fear of power differences but more to do with respect of whom Kaioshin was.
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Re: Why was Piccolo "afraid" of East Kaioshin?
He explicitly says that he forfeited because Kaioshin was stronger. There's no discussion to be had here.
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Re: Why was Piccolo "afraid" of East Kaioshin?
Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't there some sort of a defined hierearchy among "god" figures?
For example, the interactions of Kami and Enma, King Kai and East Supreme Kai, and King Kai and Beerus come to mind. Then there's the whole thing with Trunks taking the time and effort to let the player know that the Supreme Kai of Time was a figure of a "very high position/importance." To add to that, we can also think about the dynamics of Beerus and Whis' relationship. Though Whis is stronger than Beerus, he still yields to him for the most part and addresses him in honorifics. For me, these signify that positions and titles play a huge role in a db "God's" legitimacy and authority.
It's easy to infer that power has a big role as well, but I can't help but notice that there might be certain rules and customs on a lower ranking god interacting with a higher ranking one. Maybe Piccolo was sort of following the proper, expected protocol while being pretty taken aback after the unexpected encounter with the East Supreme Kai on Earth.
For example, the interactions of Kami and Enma, King Kai and East Supreme Kai, and King Kai and Beerus come to mind. Then there's the whole thing with Trunks taking the time and effort to let the player know that the Supreme Kai of Time was a figure of a "very high position/importance." To add to that, we can also think about the dynamics of Beerus and Whis' relationship. Though Whis is stronger than Beerus, he still yields to him for the most part and addresses him in honorifics. For me, these signify that positions and titles play a huge role in a db "God's" legitimacy and authority.
It's easy to infer that power has a big role as well, but I can't help but notice that there might be certain rules and customs on a lower ranking god interacting with a higher ranking one. Maybe Piccolo was sort of following the proper, expected protocol while being pretty taken aback after the unexpected encounter with the East Supreme Kai on Earth.
Re: Why was Piccolo "afraid" of East Kaioshin?
The only reason there's a discussion is because Kaioshin was never written to actually have a moment. He went from cool, to cautious pansy despite his power. So people feel it's odd for Piccolo to be weaker, even though he is.RandomGuy96 wrote:He explicitly says that he forfeited because Kaioshin was stronger. There's no discussion to be had here.
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Re: Why was Piccolo "afraid" of East Kaioshin?
As has been pointed out the fact that Kaioshin's ki couldn't be sensed and that Piccolo assumed that Kaioshin was the Dai Kaiō(probably due to sharing traits with Kaiō); suggests to me that when Piccolo told Goku that his reason for forfeiting was Kaioshin's strength, this was probably so Goku wouldn't be suspicious as to why he really forfeited and ask who Kaioshin is and thus risk the chance of Kaioshin not revealing his yet to be revealed identity and reasons for being at the tournament whilst in front of the other fighters, in favour of speaking to him privately in the hope of him being more open and finding out said information that way.
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Re: Why was Piccolo "afraid" of East Kaioshin?
I sorta have a feeling Kaioshin isn't really all that powerful if a scrub like Pui-Pui raises for alarm. He probably lied about being able about to one-shot Freeza in order to make himself look good.dbzfan7 wrote:The only reason there's a discussion is because Kaioshin was never written to actually have a moment. He went from cool, to cautious pansy despite his power. So people feel it's odd for Piccolo to be weaker, even though he is.RandomGuy96 wrote:He explicitly says that he forfeited because Kaioshin was stronger. There's no discussion to be had here.
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Re: Why was Piccolo "afraid" of East Kaioshin?
To re-answer your question:Presto88 wrote: Furthermore, and I will say it again, how could he have forfeit for no other reason but respect for who Kaioshin was when no one could actually sense his power level?
Piccolo defying Kaioshin's wishes would actually be disrespectful if it was done for any other reason than the difference in power.Dayspring wrote:It wasn't respect. Kaioshin bid him to have fun and fight him at the tournament. Piccolo's response was to forfeit anyway. Respecting Kaioshin's wishes would have been had he respected Kaioshin's verbally given wishes.
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Re: Why was Piccolo "afraid" of East Kaioshin?
Piccolo goes from wondering who Kaioshin is, to wondering why it's so hard to fight him. He knew he was a higher God of some sort, but that's about it. I doubt he sensed his actual power. No one outside of Kibito could sense him.
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