DBZ artists/animators differences

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Bejiita
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DBZ artists/animators differences

Post by Bejiita » Tue Feb 14, 2006 10:40 am

What I want to ask was how the animation in DBZ differs a lot, depending on which studio does the episode, we all know the artists as their nicknames, but I'll put pics for people that don't know.

So lets forget triangle crap first, he has crap art and animation. Now he can draw some perfect pictures, but we're on about the majority of his work, and he ruined many episodes.
Example.
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Notice the lack of detail, he also draws less spots on Cell than other artists.

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Look at his Trunks too, it may look ok, but wait till you see the better artists drawing, it's funny because in this episode the best artist helped out with a few cels, you'll notice some pictures look better.

Image
They let him draw episode 290!!! Why?!

So we have the better than Toriyama one(I'm sure it's only a nickname :roll: ) who has outstanding work and good animation. When you look at his work it's blatantly above everyone else's, although I found some flaws in his earlier art, he managed to out-do the others and make his episodes stand out clearly. It's also obvious they give the better episodes to this one, in fear of other studio's messing it up. They trusted triangle crap with the King Cold and Freeza dying episode, and they fucked it up. Trunks looks much more different than he did in the episode before it.

Image
Can you see the difference between this Tunks and the one from Triangle crap?

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Compare this Cell to the above one...see the difference?

Image
Looking at this Goku you can tell it's the best artist.

Image
And the quality of this Vegeta is very good, he draws the characters perfect.

Image Image
This Vegeta looks a lot better than the one by no shading, which I've put next to it.

Image
And SSJ2 looks awesome, I still think another animator draws SSJ2 Gohan better though.

But, the no shading guy, he can really produce some crap work, but also some outstanding work too, it's clear his style can be quite sloppy at times, he tries to mimic Toriyama's round edge style despite Toriyama canned that style for the later Z episodes(and now uses it again). It's not that that's bad, it's just he messes it up! He also makes everyone look evil in their eyes, he takes away the innocence in people!

He is one of the best animators though, he draws the motions very life like, look at the episode where Cell powers up to fight Goku after first warming up, look at the motions in his hands before he powers up, it's really like his stretching out each finger to have full power in his fist to power up. I think he get the job done quicker than the other studios, he must rush when he needs too, they gave him the episdoe where Cell spilts in four, figures, no other artists wanted to draw all those spots! Anyway, I give him respect for his good animation, he draws the motions very good, that answered the gobsmakced thought I got when I saw he got to draw most of the fighting episodes. Then I realised he is one of the best at drawing it in moving motion.

Image

Can you see that dopey look on Vegeta's face? That's how you know when it's this artist.

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Again, there's just something about this, I think it's the eyes, there's too much white, he shouldn't have drawn the eyes to the same length as the eyebrows. It's also looks plain compared to the others.

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The evil look. Don't get me wrong, I like this artists at time, but sometimes he draws the pictures a bit rubbish.


Then there's the cartoon type artist, he is the one who drew the final Cell episode, where Gohan's Kamehameha kills him. His style is instantly eye-catching, he has a slender slim way of drawing the bodies at the waiste in particular, he draws the eyes, mouths and hair unique, and even though he's not the best, his SSJ2 Gohan looks better than any of the artists does.

Image
Sorry I couldn't find a clearer image, but the site I'm using images from doesn't have this one! Anway, it's this artist, the first one who did Gohan as SSJ2. Also the last one to draw him too. I think he does SSJ2 Gohan better than the following artist does, known as the better than Toriyama one...people may disagree, but I think so.

Image
Looking at this Vegeta you can see the pupils in his eyes are a bit bigger, and he distinctively draws the mouth dimples.

Anyway, these arn't the only artists, there's so much more that can be added to this, since the animators it one of the least talked about subjects. There's even a new guy, I noticed, his first episode was during the Cell games saga, and guess who, it's the one who done Goku Vs Majin Vegeta, you know, and he drew them like normal SSJ instead of SSJ2. At least I think that his first episode was where Cell tell Trunks about the Cell Games and he gives up. He draws the faces younger and rounder, and keeps the eyes like Toriyama's.

Image

Image
Last edited by Bejiita on Tue Feb 14, 2006 12:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1942]Chapter 1
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Post by DBZ MAN » Tue Feb 14, 2006 11:12 am

Yeah I completely agree with you on what animators are better. Maybe you pay for what you get and Toi could only afford so much.
But my favourite animator is the one who done the bottom two pictures, I love how he moves the characters around and does sharp turns when they are fighting or some form of action takes place.
The one I dislike most is who you called the 'cartoon type artist'. It's very bland and is not a very worthy DBZ style. I sometimes change channel when this animator does an episode as it's so mundane to look at.

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Post by Bejiita » Tue Feb 14, 2006 11:48 am

DBZ MAN wrote:Yeah I completely agree with you on what animators are better. Maybe you pay for what you get and Toi could only afford so much.
But my favourite animator is the one who done the bottom two pictures, I love how he moves the characters around and does sharp turns when they are fighting or some form of action takes place.
The one I dislike most is who you called the 'cartoon type artist'. It's very bland and is not a very worthy DBZ style. I sometimes change channel when this animator does an episode as it's so mundane to look at.
I reckon the cartoony animator does a pretty good job, way better than what some of the others do. For a while he was my favourite animator, until I just realised the 'better than Toriyama' animator does the best, I think he does the movies too. But tit's the sharpness of this cartoon animator that cathes my eye, they way he does the mouths are wicked, and the hair, look at the episode where Gotenks goes SSJ3, it was him who done it!

Still, it's down to general preference, I still think many people here will like that animator, he did Gohan killing Cell good. And also the episode where Gotenks first fuses as SSJ.
My DB Fan manga:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=19169 [The new version]
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1942]Chapter 1
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2685]Chapter 2
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Post by DBZ MAN » Tue Feb 14, 2006 11:56 am

Oh, When I was Referring to the cartoon one I meant this animator.

Image

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Post by Bejiita » Tue Feb 14, 2006 12:13 pm

Ah, the one reffered to as 'no-shading', or, I call him 'The Toriyama wannabe'. Because he tries to copy Toriyama's style used in the early series, and tries to merge that old stlye with Toriyama's sharp edged style used for the later episodes, this man actually does some episodes good.

I know exactly what your talking about. Here's another bad example of his work compared to the best artist.

Image
This is no shading.


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And this is the better than Toriyama one.

See the difference?


Image

This is him having a go at the sharp edges, notice the eyes, the jaw shape, the way the hair at the back goes into his neck, the better artists make the hair at the back show up just under the ears or on the ears.

Image

This is actually triangle crap at his best, it's better than the above picture, but mainly look at the hair going into his neck, it's higher up, the way it should be.
My DB Fan manga:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=19169 [The new version]
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1942]Chapter 1
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2685]Chapter 2
Photo's I've taken of the nearby neighbourhoods where I live in South London: http://www.flickr.com/photos/8306850@N08/

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Post by El_Diablo » Tue Feb 14, 2006 1:04 pm

You realise it's not just one person, but an entire studio that is: "Triangle crap" and "Better than Toriyama".
Where's the beef?

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Re: DBZ artists/animators differences.

Post by Saiya-jin » Tue Feb 14, 2006 1:19 pm

They let him draw episode 290!!! Why?!

Who is that guy standing next to Trunks? Are they so bad that they can't draw a character correctly enough to identify it? :?:

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Re: DBZ artists/animators differences.

Post by Leotaku » Tue Feb 14, 2006 1:38 pm

Saiya-jin wrote:They let him draw episode 290!!! Why?!

Who is that guy standing next to Trunks? Are they so bad that they can't draw a character correctly enough to identify it? :?:
That's Goten. What threw you off? The hair?

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Post by Bejiita » Tue Feb 14, 2006 1:44 pm

El_Diablo wrote:You realise it's not just one person, but an entire studio that is: "Triangle crap" and "Better than Toriyama".
I know that, but isn't is one person who draws the original cel? That's who the main artist is.

And Saiya-Jin, that is Goten...
My DB Fan manga:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=19169 [The new version]
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1942]Chapter 1
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2685]Chapter 2
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Post by desirecampbell » Tue Feb 14, 2006 1:56 pm

Bejiita wrote:
El_Diablo wrote:You realise it's not just one person, but an entire studio that is: "Triangle crap" and "Better than Toriyama".
I know that, but isn't is one person who draws the original cel? That's who the main artist is.

And Saiya-Jin, that is Goten...
Exactly, there's a "lead animator" or "key frame artist" who'll draw one or two frames for each second, then a team of animators will do the in-betweens.

(If memorey serves correctly).

edit-
Wikipedia wrote:In the traditional animation process, animators will begin by drawing sequences of animation on sheets of paper perforated to fit the peg bars in their desks, often using colored pencils, one picture or "frame" at a time. A key animator or lead animator will draw the key drawings ("key" in the sense of "important") in a scene, using the character layouts as a guide. The key animator draws enough of the frames to get across the major points of the action; in a sequence of a character jumping across a gap, the key animator may draw a frame of the character as he is about to leap, two or more frames as the character is flying through the air, and the frame for the character landing on the other side of the gap.

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Post by DBZ MAN » Tue Feb 14, 2006 2:07 pm

Yeah, the animators who do the in-between shots but if you look at the Buu cels you can tell which one deserves more praise.

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Post by Saiya-jin » Tue Feb 14, 2006 4:13 pm

Thanks, that Goten kinda looks like the one in Bejiita's Manga(by the way great job.)

You're right, there are some big differences. Did Akira Toriyama animate ANY episodes? :?:

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Post by El_Diablo » Tue Feb 14, 2006 4:30 pm

He was too busy drawing the manga.
Where's the beef?

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Post by DBZ MAN » Tue Feb 14, 2006 5:45 pm

Plus he doesn't really hyave the training.

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Post by Bejiita » Tue Feb 14, 2006 7:16 pm

Toriyama didn't do anything on the anime, he left it all up to them, they even changed things like Cell Jr.s deaths, and various other things. He didn't draw any cels for the anime. Let alone drawn any episodes.

And that Goten is the one from my manga. Thanks anyway. ;)
My DB Fan manga:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=19169 [The new version]
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1942]Chapter 1
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2685]Chapter 2
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Post by Saiya-jin » Tue Feb 14, 2006 8:06 pm

Well, its a good thing triangle didn't animate any of the movies.(Imagine Hildergarn or Janemba looking like that!) :? :cry: :shock: :x

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Post by Domon » Tue Feb 14, 2006 9:00 pm

Bejiita wrote:Ah, the one reffered to as 'no-shading', or, I call him 'The Toriyama wannabe'. Because he tries to copy Toriyama's style used in the early series, and tries to merge that old stlye with Toriyama's sharp edged style used for the later episodes, this man actually does some episodes good.

I know exactly what your talking about. Here's another bad example of his work compared to the best artist.

Image
This is no shading.
I'm only going to comment on one thing; I find it odd how this one artist is referred to as "no shading", yet there appear to be some amount of shading in the sample pictures provided.

That is all.

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Post by Mike D » Tue Feb 14, 2006 9:51 pm

Bejiita wrote:Image

This is actually triangle crap at his best, it's better than the above picture, but mainly look at the hair going into his neck, it's higher up, the way it should be.
I have to disagree. Vegeta's first attempt at going Super Saiyan (ep.84) would be triangle crap at his best. Once I get some pictures I will post the scene.

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Post by Bejiita » Tue Feb 14, 2006 10:12 pm

Domon, I myself call him Toriyama wannabe, the nickname 'no shading' isn't what I call him, it's what people here call him, there was a topic a while back and it was what he was labelled as.

I can answer also, he does of course do shading but can you see the difference, there are 3 shades of colour on the better animators. Most animators do third degree shading, whereas no shading just does standard. And he is quite sloppy in many episodes.

And Mike D, I didn't really mean at his best, I meant at that stage in the series it was pretty good, he did an episode with Vegetto quite ok, that was one of his best I think.
My DB Fan manga:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=19169 [The new version]
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1942]Chapter 1
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2685]Chapter 2
Photo's I've taken of the nearby neighbourhoods where I live in South London: http://www.flickr.com/photos/8306850@N08/

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Post by kenisu3000 » Tue Feb 14, 2006 10:34 pm

My favorite favorite animator/studio is the one that did episodes 184 and 191. It's different from Toriyama's style, but I daresay I like it better! *Wait! Quit throwing rotten food at me!* I consider myself to be a good-enough cartoonist for the animation world, but I would be a happier man if I could draw like that!!
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