Did You Really Believe That Goku Can No Longer Become A SS

[NeoKING]

Spoiler-thread

... Really? People thought Goku lost his SSJ power-up? Uh ... SSJ Goku is Dragon Ball. Why do people think this? Or am I the only one missing something that stated he lost it?

[Herms]

The idea comes from two things:

1) People who attended Jump Festa last year and heard Nozawa and Nakao read lines from (then still months way) RoF reported that Goku wouldn't be turning into a Super Saiyan in the film. Most likely, Nozawa/Nakao had read the lines where Freeza asks Goku if he'll become a Super Saiyan and Goku responds that now he "no longer needs to". Of course, in the actual movie Goku does eventually transform into SSGSS when Freeza proves tougher than he thought, and Freeza even goes "oh, so you've become Super Saiyan after all". So it's basically a case of early reports being wrong/jumping to the wrong conclusion.

2) Toriyama said in a Saikyo Jump interview that Super Saiyan 2 and 3 were nothing more than "variations" on the basic Super Saiyan form, and that from now on Goku would probably no longer use them, and instead focus on mastering his basic form and regular Super Saiyan. People are probably conflating "Goku won't use Super Saiyan 2/3 anymore" with "Goku won't use Super Saiyan" anymore, which goes against what Toriyama actually said.

So yeah, no real reason to think this.

[Zephyr]

With the new form being described as "Super Saiyan with the power of Super Saiyan God", and Goku now having the power of Super Saiyan God, it seemed like a incredibly logical conclusion that Goku's Super Saiyan form was now blue.

Hell, this was commonly tossed around as one of the big things that kept FnF and GT in separate continuities, with the question of "well why don't Goku and Vegeta have blue hair as Super Saiyans in GT?" being raised.

[NeoKING]

With the new form being described as "Super Saiyan with the power of Super Saiyan God", and Goku now having the power of Super Saiyan God, it seemed like a incredibly logical conclusion that Goku's Super Saiyan form was now blue.

Hell, this was commonly tossed around as one of the big things that kept FnF and GT in separate continuities, with the question of "well why don't Goku and Vegeta have blue hair as Super Saiyans in GT?" being raised.

Goku's still a SSJ in BoG during the later ends of his bout with Beerus.

"Super Saiyan" = / = "Super Saiyan with the power of Super Saiyan God." I may be wrong, but it seems to me that these are obviously two completely different things. I can't see why the existence of one would delete the other.

[Zephyr]

"Super Saiyan" = / = "Super Saiyan with the power of Super Saiyan God." I may be wrong, but it seems to me that these are obviously two completely different things.

Well yeah, now that seems to be the case. What I (and seemingly most) gathered from Resurrection F though was that once a Saiyan fully absorbs the power of Super Saiyan God into their base form, their hair becomes blue once transformed into Super Saiyan. That was the most common interpretation that I saw regarding it. That's where the confusion regarding the Super trailer came from.

If the scene with Goku transforming into regular SSj is post-F, then that's not in fact the case.

[Sanyo96]

This whole situation is confusing to be honest. Goku was able to turn into a regular SSJ in the Dragon Ball Super PV.

[Cetra]

People just need reasons to hate GT even though in fiction everything can fit with the mere thought of "own the brand own the rights". And as said often enough, in the end we know nothing. But it seemed convenient so premature assumptions were made from the movies.

[Doctor.]

People just need reasons to hate GT even though in fiction everything can fit with the mere thought of "own the brand own the rights". And as said often enough, in the end we know nothing. But it seemed convenient so premature assumptions were made from the movies.

I'm sorry, not trying to be confrontational here, but do you feel the need to always bring up GT?

[Cetra]

People just need reasons to hate GT even though in fiction everything can fit with the mere thought of "own the brand own the rights". And as said often enough, in the end we know nothing. But it seemed convenient so premature assumptions were made from the movies.

I'm sorry, not trying to be confrontational here, but do you feel the need to always bring up GT?

You mean like everyone needs to bring it up when they try to find something speaking against it even though there is no necessity in just looking for that purposely in new stuff?

People are looking in every new thing of Dragon Ball for something to speak bad against it. So it is appropriate to state that as an explanation.

[Vegard Aune]

"Super Saiyan" = / = "Super Saiyan with the power of Super Saiyan God." I may be wrong, but it seems to me that these are obviously two completely different things. I can't see why the existence of one would delete the other.

Actually, that translation is a bit off, and doesn't quite cover the full nuance of what he said. What he actually said was that it was "the Super Saiyan form of a Saiyan who has the power of a Super Saiyan God". Which to me seems to clearly indicate that, yeah, it's not a new separate transformation, his Super Saiyan transformation is just blue now. Why wasn't it blue in Battle of Gods? I dunno, maybe he didn't completely absorb the God-power until afterwards when he stopped Beerus's attack?

[Cetra]

Or he simply becomes blue by using more power.

[ShaneisMC]

Please tell me I'm not the only one who saw the thread title and wanted to make an ass joke.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Taking into account the 28th TB arc from the manga, BoG, FnF, and DBHeroes, it seems that this is how transformations work for Goku:

Goku has his base form, and he can transform into SS/2/3/God. Alternatively, he can power-up to his Saiyan beyond God state (like base Gohan powers-up to his Ultimate state), which is base form with the power of Super Saiyan God. In that state, he is nearly as strong as he is in SSG, and he can still go SS/2/3, but his power barely changes, if at all. He can also combine SS with SSGod, which results to Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan, to become even stronger.

Which explains why Goku believed that Oob would have been a challenge. He wasn't planning to use the power of SSGod, he would have used his regular power with SS3, because that was the form he had used against Pure Boo, with whom he wanted a rematch. If he was to use SSGod, he would finger-flick Oob. Without it, he would be able to see if he can beat Boo/Oob on his own in the same form from the past, but after doing hard training for 10 years.

[ArchedThunder]

Taking into account the 28th TB arc from the manga, BoG, FnF, and DBHeroes, it seems that this is how transformations work for Goku:

Goku has his base form, and he can transform into SS/2/3/God. Alternatively, he can power-up to his Saiyan beyond God state (like base Gohan powers-up to his Ultimate state), which is base form with the power of Super Saiyan God. In that state, he is nearly as strong as he is in SSG, and he can still go SS/2/3, but his power barely changes, if at all. He can also combine SS with SSGod, which results to Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan, to become even stronger.

Which explains why Goku believed that Oob would have been a challenge. He wasn't planning to use the power of SSGod, he would have used his regular power with SS3, because that was the form he had used against Pure Boo, with whom he wanted a rematch. If he was to use SSGod, he would finger-flick Oob. Without it, he would be able to see if he can beat Boo/Oob on his own in the same form from the past, but after doing hard training for 10 years.

Didn't Toriyama say that it would be "pointless" for Goku to go Super Saiyan God since he has that power in his base form?

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Didn't Toriyama say that it would be "pointless" for Goku to go Super Saiyan God since he has that power in his base form?

He said that he didn't need to transform because he had absorbed its power, which is also what BoG shows, since Beerus says that after Goku absorbed SSGod's power, his power decreased insignificantly. Which is why I said that he is nearly as strong in his Saiyan beyond God state.

[NeoKING]

How I always understood it was, Goku can become a SSJ, SSJ2, SSJ3, and in BoG, SSJG.

After BoG and the time period training with Whis, and taking into Neo-Toriyama's "mastery of SSJ is all that's needed"-statement, he has 2 main transformations: SSJ and SSJG. Somewhere along the line he learned how to combine both of them to create SSGSS. Think of it like those Tokusatsu Henshin shows or those mecha anime where the main characters have various forms and modes they can switch to, and eventually a form combining all of them.

Tl;dr: New-Toriyama's Goku has SSJ, SSJG, and mixes both of them when necessary to create SSGSS.

[fadeddreams5]

Please tell me I'm not the only one who saw the thread title and wanted to make an ass joke.

I literally came in here to make an ass joke. >.<

On-topic, there's no proof whether or not SSGSS replaces SSJ. Nothing he says really confirms he wouldn't be able to. I personally would like him to be able to draw out his god ki AFTER he becomes SSJ, which is how it should have been in the first place.

[Cold Skin]

I still believe it as long as the new series isn't revealed to take place after Resurrection 'F'.

For now, it seems the blue-haired Super Saiyan is just the regular Super Saiyan now that he has God energy inside of him, nothing more. As Goku states "let's say it's the Super Saiyan form when you've previously acquired Super Saiyan God energy".
It just needed a name to set it apart from the blond one for various products, hence "Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan" (a clumsy short name for "the Super Saiyan form that comes from being constantly a Super Saiyan God", meaning "The Super Saiyan God's Super Saiyan").

To me, until proven otherwise by the new show's placement, the blue-haired is just the Super Saiyan now (only much more powerful), so unless Goku loses his God energy, no more blondy ever once this has been reached once.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

I still believe it as long as the new series isn't revealed to take place after Resurrection 'F'.

For now, it seems the blue-haired Super Saiyan is just the regular Super Saiyan now that he has God energy inside of him, nothing more. As Goku states "let's say it's the Super Saiyan form when you've previously acquired Super Saiyan God energy".
It just needed a name to set it apart from the blond one for various products, hence "Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan" (a clumsy short name for "the Super Saiyan form that comes from being constantly a Super Saiyan God", meaning "The Super Saiyan God's Super Saiyan").

To me, until proven otherwise by the new show's placement, the blue-haired is just the Super Saiyan now (only much more powerful), so unless Goku loses his God energy, no more blondy ever once this has been reached once.

Goku has the power of Super Saiyan God in BoG, yet when he transforms into a Super Saiyan, he has golden hair.

[KameRule]

I still believe it as long as the new series isn't revealed to take place after Resurrection 'F'.

For now, it seems the blue-haired Super Saiyan is just the regular Super Saiyan now that he has God energy inside of him, nothing more. As Goku states "let's say it's the Super Saiyan form when you've previously acquired Super Saiyan God energy".
It just needed a name to set it apart from the blond one for various products, hence "Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan" (a clumsy short name for "the Super Saiyan form that comes from being constantly a Super Saiyan God", meaning "The Super Saiyan God's Super Saiyan").

To me, until proven otherwise by the new show's placement, the blue-haired is just the Super Saiyan now (only much more powerful), so unless Goku loses his God energy, no more blondy ever once this has been reached once.

Goku has the power of Super Saiyan God in BoG, yet when he transforms into a Super Saiyan, he has golden hair.

Beerus said that Goku lost the SSJGod power while fighting him though. It was when he absorbed Beerus's attack that he absorbed the power of SSJGod into himself.