What exactly is "The Demon Realm" where Dabura comes from?

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What exactly is "The Demon Realm" where Dabura comes from?

Post by precita » Sat Aug 22, 2015 11:12 pm

Between Dabura being the King of the Demon Realm and apparently being as strong as Cell, and all the various monsters in Dragonball like in Baba's tournament, The Devil, the Mummy, the Invisible Man, plus the filler arcs of Goku actually visiting the demon realm at the end of Dragonball, what exactly is it?

Apparently it isn't Hell, because none of the creatures there are dead. It seems like some alternate realm that exists with Earth for no reason at all. If I recall correctly there was also a character called the King of the Demon Realm back in Dragonball too, although that was filler. And didn't Garlic Jr.'s father try to conquer the Demon Realm too at some point?

Like..what is this place?

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Re: What exactly is "The Demon Realm" where Dabura comes fro

Post by TheDevilsCorpse » Sat Aug 22, 2015 11:20 pm

I think Herms covers it pretty well in the quote below. Makai (mistakenly spelled "Maikai" on this map) is the pointy bit at the bottom of the Universe #7 cosmos ball.

Note: Akkuman (Devilman) is from Hell, Baba's other fighters (sans Gohan) are likely Earthlings of the monster class since they aren't dead and aren't stated to be from anywhere else.
II. The Demon Realm
魔界/Makai
Translation: demon world, demon realm
AKA: 悪魔界/akumakai (“Devil Realm”), 暗黒魔界/ankoku-makai (“Demon Realm of Darkness”)
Other Names: the Underworld, the Netherworld, the Spirit World (all various fansubs)

The Demon Realm is the lower half of the living world, a dimension that exists on the reverse side of the universe. It’s not to be confused with Hell, which exists in the afterlife. According to Daizenshuu 7, it’s a chaotic place where magic has more influence than science. The Kaio/shin themselves don’t really understand the Demon Realm, as not even the gods’ eyes can reach it. As a result, not much is known about it other then that it is the home of evil life-forms. Records still survive of these life-forms interfering with the peace of the universe’s planets. In fact, one of the factors in the nations of the DB Earth unifying into a single world state was to guard against this threat from the Demon Realm.

Like the universe with its division between the four cardinal directions, the Demon Realm is divided into several different spatial areas, though it’s unknown how many there are or what these divisions are based on. Either way, all these areas are unified under the rule of Dabra, the king of the Demon Realm and far and away its strongest resident, according to Kaioshin. Or at least they were, until Dabra was brainwashed by the wizard Babidi into becoming his servant. Dabra’s been working for Babidi for at least the last 300 years, and it’s not known who if anyone has taken control of the Demon Realm in Dabra’s absence.

According to Toriyama in the recent Super Exciting Guides, the Demon Realm has its own special gods called Makaio and Makaioshin (“Kings of the Demon Realm” and “Gods of the Kings of the Demon Realm”, respectively). They’re the antitheses of the Kaio and Kaioshin, and govern evil. Whenever one of the Shinjin (the special race that Kaio and Kaioshin are selected from) is born with an evil heart, they leave the Shinjin’s planet and go to be with the Makaio. However, it’s unknown whether the Makaio/shin themselves are selected from among these delinquent Shinjin, or whether they are beings who have always existed in the Demon Realm and simply ally themselves with evil Shinjin. It’s also not known whether Dabra himself was a Makaio/shin, or if he was simply a political ruler of the Demon Realm rather than a god (like the difference between the Earth’s World King and its God). At any rate, Toriyama says that currently the power of the Kaioshin is greater than that of the Makaioshin.

In the manga we never officially see the Demon Realm, but when Gohan and Dabra are fighting Babidi teleports them to some different world, one of rocky plains and blood-red water. Since Babidi transported his other henchmen Pui Pui and Yakon to their respective home worlds during their fights with Goku and co., it seems likely that this is the Demon Realm. Also, when Dabra dies Enma Daio sends him to Heaven on the reasoning that he’d be happy to go to Hell. This implies that Hell and the Demon Realm are similar, and in fact the place where Gohan and Dabra fight does somewhat resemble Hell as seen in the anime. Also, the two realms are positioned similarly in their respective worlds: Hell at the bottom of the afterlife, and the Demon Realm at the bottom of the living world.

The Demon Realm also figures into the anime filler showing Goku’s journeys while training for the 22nd Tenkaichi Budoukai, made years before the Demon Realm was ever mentioned in the manga (though “Demon World” is a fairly generic term that pops up in lots of manga and anime, so it’s use here is probably a coincidence). In DB episode 81, Goku visits a village being attacked nightly by beings from the Demon Realm. In another premonition of things to come, the inhabitants of the Demon Realm are called majin in this episode, with females being called majo, literally “demon woman” but generally used to mean “witch”. These fiends are coming from the Demon Realm Gate, a portal linking the living world to the afterlife, and located in a cave connected with the Demon Realm. This portal is only supposed to be used by grim reapers, who are authorized to do so by Enma Daio and God (mentioned in yet another bit of unintentional foreshadowing).

A Demon Realm martial artist named Shura jams a cursed sword into the gate to keep it open, allowing him and his fellow fiends to come and go freely between the Earth and Demon Realm. Eventually Goku manages to set all this right, mostly by grabbing a princess Shura had kidnapped and running away very fast. This filler version of the Demon Realm has several inconsistencies between the Demon Realm that later figures in the Boo arc (such as the Demon Realm apparently being part of the afterlife), but it’s still a neat little side story.
Extra tidbit from Toriyama, found in the recent Full Color manga interviews:
What sort of place is the Demon Realm?
It’s a hideout for mages!

The Demon Realm is located in the universe, but its scale is very small, the size of a hideout for mages. The mages live in the Demon Realm like evil goblins.
Last edited by TheDevilsCorpse on Sun Aug 23, 2015 1:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What exactly is "The Demon Realm" where Dabura comes fro

Post by Herms » Sun Aug 23, 2015 12:46 am

In addition, besides DB, the Demon Realm is a stock concept in manga/anime/video games etc. See for instance Yu Yu Hakusho, Darkstalkers, Disgaea, Ghosts n' Goblins, Dragon Quest: Dai's Big Adventure, Makai no Ossan, etc. It's often used so that you can get cool demonic imagery without all the pesky theological implications of Hell. Technically the term does originate in Buddhism, but the version that features in modern Japanese pop culture is a fairly recent, secular creation. In series like DB, Yu Yu Hakusho, or Darkstalkers, the Demon Realm is simply a place where demonic creatures live, and isn't associated with the souls of the dead (in fact, DB and YYH feature both the Demon Realm and Hell as separate places), but in other series like Disgaea it's portrayed as the destination for the souls of the damned, making it pretty much the same as Hell.
precita wrote:If I recall correctly there was also a character called the King of the Demon Realm back in Dragonball too, although that was filler.
That's Shura, from DB episode 81. I'm...almost positive he's not called "king of the Demon Realm" in the Japanese version, but I see people say he is all the time, so maybe it's a dub thing? Anyway, as far as I know, he's just identified as a martial artist of the Demon Realm, though he does have a pretty spiffy castle. He's named after the mythological Asura (called ashura or shura in Japanese). Yomi's son in Yu Yu Hakusho has the same name, for the same reason.

Since the Demon Realm is a stock concept, that's why it appeared first in this filler, before Toriyama independently used the same concept years later. It appears in many different series, and while it's never exactly the same, you can introduce a character as "king of the Demon Realm" and not have to explain too much about it, because you can take for granted that the audience will have some degree of familiarity with the concept of the "Demon Realm". Or at least, you can in Japan. I guess it's one of those things that's somewhat lost in translation, in that regard.
And didn't Garlic Jr.'s father try to conquer the Demon Realm too at some point?
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Re: What exactly is "The Demon Realm" where Dabura comes fro

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Sun Aug 23, 2015 1:34 am

The current arc of my fanfic is taking place there (shameless plug).

Anyway, there's not much known about it, so I've had to make up a lot of stuff as I go.
Cool stuff that I upload here because Youtube will copyright claim it: https://vimeo.com/user60967147

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Re: What exactly is "The Demon Realm" where Dabura comes fro

Post by TheDevilsCorpse » Sun Aug 23, 2015 2:01 am

We finally got our first real look at it in modern material thanks to the Heroes God Mission sets focusing on Towa and Mira half the time. Honestly? It looks like an evil planet Namek.
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Re: What exactly is "The Demon Realm" where Dabura comes fro

Post by 90sDBZ » Sun Aug 23, 2015 7:01 am

Its been awhile since I've seen that filler episode, but I always remembered that Demon guy and that Demon Woman helping Goku escape from there and then saying they'd see him again someday. I always wondered what that was all about. On a side note, the girl Goku rescues on that episode looks identical to Suno from Jingle village.

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Re: What exactly is "The Demon Realm" where Dabura comes fro

Post by precita » Sun Aug 23, 2015 4:24 pm

Wasn't there some mention of the Demon realm made in the Garlic Jr. movie? I distinctly remember something said either there or the Garlic Jr. saga in the anime.

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Re: What exactly is "The Demon Realm" where Dabura comes fro

Post by Sayo-chan » Tue Aug 25, 2015 9:40 pm

Herms wrote: so maybe it's a dub thing?
He's referred to as "the strongest fighter in all of Demon Land" and things alike in the dub. There's only one instance where one might make an inference that's he's a king. As Goku runs into Mera and Gora, they tell him he needs permission from the ruler of the Underworld to pass. Later, it's revealed that Shura is the one that gives the demons passes to leave.

I'm fairly sure the term king derives solely from this article if it's not mentioned elsewhere: http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Shula
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Re: What exactly is "The Demon Realm" where Dabura comes fro

Post by LuckyCat » Tue Aug 25, 2015 10:18 pm

Interesting. So do Pui-Pui and Yakon come from the Demon Realm too? Daizenshuu 4 seems to imply they do, but with the home planet names mentioned for them they could simply be evil aliens.

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