So Piccolo takes on Spider-Man... who will win

[BrollysKin]

And the full trailer comes with Casino Royale next month

On topic...uh...Goku!

-Corey

HAHA I laughed.

*Now trying to bring this back to Dragonball somehow*
Uh... so if this 'reinventing' of characters is so accepted in American comics, why is even the changing of a character's name (Hercule) such a sticking point?

Don't quote yourself. It makes you look cocky and stupid.

[The Tori-bot]

As for Gwen, yeah, she's Carnage.

Hehe, I get jokes.

If you don't want a spoiler, don't highlight this: In the USM continuity, Gwen Stacey is killed by Carnage instead of being dropped off a bridge by the Green Goblin, after which Spider-Man uses his webbing to catch her, but doesn't web her neck, therefor it snaps from the whiplish of the suddon stop. Either that or the fall alone killed her. But I like to think it's the former. It makes Spidey more guilty. Yes, I am very sadistic.

[Sun_Wukong]

See thats where youre wrong, we were all lead to believe Gwen was killed by Carnage.

[Mr.Piccolo]

Didn't Green Goblin kill her? Goku would probably lose up until the 22nd world tournament. After that, any incarnation of Spiderman would lose, imo.

[Sun_Wukong]

Didn't Green Goblin kill her? Goku would probably lose up until the 22nd world tournament. After that, any incarnation of Spiderman would lose, imo.

Green Goblin killed her in the 616(normal) universe, she's still alive in the Ultimate universe.

[DBZ MAN]

No Gwen is dead in the ultimate universe too. Her clone is around on the other hand but it's still debatable that even her clone is 'alive'.
And it's also debatable if the GG killed her in the 616 universe and that it wasn't the tension on Spidey's webline.

[MajinVejitaXV]

No Gwen is dead in the ultimate universe too. Her clone is around on the other hand but it's still debatable that even her clone is 'alive'.
And it's also debatable if the GG killed her in the 616 universe and that it wasn't the tension on Spidey's webline.

Quick resolution:

The issue where she dies shows a 'snap' sound effect, indicating that the catch and sudden stop by Peter's webbing broke her neck and killed her. Roy Thomas (Marvel EIC at the time, I believe) wrote in the letters column a couple of months later that "it saddens us to have to say that the whiplash effect she underwent when Spidey's webbing stopped her so suddenly was, in fact, what killed her. In short, it was impossible for Peter to save her. He couldn't have swung down in time; the action he did take resulted in her death; if he had done nothing, she still would certainly have perished. There was no way out."

In the Ultimate universe, Peter actually gives a sample of his blood to Doc Connors (sometimes aka the Lizard), who combined it with his own blood and that of Peter's father to create a variant on the 'Venom' suit which becomes Carnage. It escapes and starts killing people in a vampiric manner, eventually killing Gwen Stacy. Peter blames himself for the event, as he consented to have his DNA used (though he didn't know what the end result would be).

Haven't read the clone saga yet, but apparently Gwen came back and when SHIELD showed up, she freaked out and turned into Carnage.

*on Topic*

So..um...Vejita blasts Cell in half. That's pretty wicked.

-Corey

[Sun_Wukong]

No Gwen is dead in the ultimate universe too. Her clone is around on the other hand but it's still debatable that even her clone is 'alive'.
And it's also debatable if the GG killed her in the 616 universe and that it wasn't the tension on Spidey's webline.

Its a clone? I totaly missed that part

[Last Son of Krypton]

Damn, I didn't know there were so many comic book fans on this board. That makes me a happy Kryptonian Ultimate Green Goblin looks like he was based on the DC comics character Etrigan more than anything:

Etrigan


Ultimate Green Goblin


Aside from the Goblin's green skin color and purple attire he looks nothing like Piccolo.

And I'm not saying you're not a Spiderman fan for liking USM or the new movies, I'm just saying it's an inferior product and not true at all to the original. Kind of like the DBZ dub.

I wouldn't care if you said you didn't like USM, but calling it an inferior product is a little harsh.

To stay on topic...I really don't think Ultimate GG was based on Piccolo. I didn't even see a resemblance until I read this thread. Spider-Man wouldn't stand a chance against ANY incarnation of Piccolo by the way.

Spider-Man could handle his own against Piccolo. I'd say up until Piccolo arrives on Namek to fight Frieza. He's tangled (pun definitely intended) with Juggernaut (I'm talking about Classic Juggernaut here...not this weak Excalibur version they have now), the Hulk, freaking Fire Lord (A former herald of Galactus that Spidey beat unconcious) and he has defeated Morlun on two occassions (Spidey admitted that this guy has hit him harder than anyone he has ever fought, and that includes Hulk and Juggernaut). So to say that Spider-Man has no chance against ANY version of Piccolo is a foolish statement to say the least. Now if this were Captain Universe Spider-Man...it wouldn't be a good day to be Piccolo.

[DBZ MAN]

I'm pretty confidant that Piccolo could wipe the floor with Spidey (And I'm a huge Spidey fan). And yes even when he was at Dragonball. He blew a hole thru Goku's shoulder, he could obliterate the stadium around him and could grow to any size he wanted.
Now Cosmic Spidey on the other hand.....

[Taku128]

As for Gwen, yeah, she's Carnage.

Hehe, I get jokes.

If you don't want a spoiler, don't highlight this: In the USM continuity, Gwen Stacey is killed by Carnage instead of being dropped off a bridge by the Green Goblin, after which Spider-Man uses his webbing to catch her, but doesn't web her neck, therefor it snaps from the whiplish of the suddon stop. Either that or the fall alone killed her. But I like to think it's the former. It makes Spidey more guilty. Yes, I am very sadistic.

You can type in white to make it a better color you know, the cyan is easy to read without hilighting. I've gone along and did that myself as you can see.

[desirecampbell]

Or you can type in DEE3E7

[Taku128]

Or you can type in DEE3E7

That's too hard to remember. Couldn't they have just called it invisible or transparent?

[The Tori-bot]

Or you can type in DEE3E7

That's too hard to remember. Couldn't they have just called it invisible or transparent?

Okay, I've changed it to "#DEE3E7". And yeah, I wish they had called it something like that. What does "DEE3E7" mean, anyway?

[desirecampbell]

Okay, I've changed it to "#DEE3E7". And yeah, I wish they had called it something like that. What does "DEE3E7" mean, anyway?

The board recognises some 'colour words' but it also recognises hex values. DEE3E7 is the hexidecimal code for the RGB value of the light blue background, EFEFEF is the grey background. For a further offtopic expalination, see Wikipedia.

[The Chibi Kiriyama]

Oh 'Ultimate Spiderman', is there any character you can't fuck up? sigh

Yeah, if EX is reading this listen up: this is the perfect example about why not to get into American comics. "Hey guys, Spiderman's more popular than ever now. The movies are doing well and the comics are selling higher than ever. Let's make a new line that completely changes every character -not just personality wise, but completely change anything we can about them."

Someone hasn't been reading Spider-Man lately.

In the canon continuity Peter now curses and kills people. 'Sins Past' is a new story that retcons the Gwen Stacy death. It claims Gwen Stacy did the McNasty with Norman Osborn and had his twins in the span of 7 months, which by complete convenience age faster than normal and are after Peter for revenge sporting the same powers as their father. Hence the Goblin killed her in revenge for taking away the twins. One of the issues graphically depicts Gwen mid-orgasm for no apparent reason.

Then there is the issue of The Other, which claims that the spider that bit Peter did so to pass on 'totemic powers', and that the radiation in his blood is coincidental. It also claims that even if the spider were not radioactive Peter would have gotten his powers anyway, due to the grand machinations of a 'Spider God'. The storyline introduces a Morbius knockoff whose sole purpose is to eat Peter. During their fight the villain, Morlun, graphically rips Peter's eye out of its socket and eats it. He then hits him with 'more force than the Hulk or Thor ever did' and leaves him at an inch of his life. Peter is taken to a hospital, where Morlun tries to feed on him again. In retaliation Peter suddenly grows fangs and stingers out of his forearms, which are then used to pin down Morlun. He then eats Morlun's head before returning to normal and dying. Peter then leaps out of his skin and makes a cocoon under a bridge, where he regenerates his power and lost organs while gaining new ones. The story ends with him taking a new costume and fighting a brood of spiders that are now living in his old skin.

Now, in Civil War, Peter has unmasked himself publically.

All of this is now canon. And before one thinks I've made this up:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gwen_Stacy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spider-Man:_The_Other

Nick Fury is black now? That's a completely useful and necessary change.

Ultimate Spider-Man is handled differently than The Ultimates (which I hate). The Ultimates has a black Nick Fury, has a jerkish version of Captain America, and has the Hulk as a cannibal. Oh, and the book is just non-stop political commentary. Bendis, on the other hand, writes USM with the utmost respect of the original material. The Green Goblin's apperance as well as many others is altered not to 'spice up' the material but to tie into the bigger plot. An example: since Peter is bitten by an experimental spider that has the OZ formula, he gets said traits. Osborn realizes the effect of the OZ formula but does not use a medium. Having injected it into himself with no real medium he turns into the 'inner' version of himself. Hence the Green Goblin.

It's not as abhorrent as one may believe. I don't buy any other comic outside of it, and find that the blend of good storytelling and interesting takes has been enjoyable since USM #1. In fact, I'm actually enjoying his take on the Clone Saga (a previous Marvel messup). So don't take judgement based on The Ultimates' screw-ups. USM is an Ultimate title that takes far more respect to the canon universe.

Hehe, I get jokes.

It's not a joke. USM #98 and 99 shows that Ultimate Gwen Stacy is back by unknown reasons. USM #100, again dealing with the Clone Saga, makes the cliffhanger ending of Gwen transforming into Carnage. Before this the Carnage symbiote had no host and had to feed on others to sustain itself, hence the reason Gwen was dead in USM to begin with. The primary reason Bendis brought her back is because there was a huge fan protest against her being killed off.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Ultgwenkilled.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Gwen ... Return.JPG

[Sun_Wukong]

Ultimate Spider-Man is handled differently than The Ultimates (which I hate).

Please explain to me why you hate the Ultimates. Volume 1 was the best thing I've read in a long time. Volume 2 has been a bit of a let down though.

[The Chibi Kiriyama]

Please explain to me why you hate the Ultimates. Volume 1 was the best thing I've read in a long time. Volume 2 has been a bit of a let down though.

I'll expand upon what I said before, then. Millar has a tendency to stuff down his political ideas down the throat of the reader. I don't appreciate that. If I want thinly-veiled political commentary I know where to get it. I'm not paying him money so he can tell me how to think or make me feel bad because I'm not European. The fact that he does so much America-bashing perplexes me as to why he would even write a comic book based on American heroes. What's worse is that he's doing it with characters I've loved since I was 3. Essentially, he writes 'America Is Evil the comic book'. Again, this would be fine if he weren't doing this in comics. Comics are for escapism. Civil War shows he still doesn't get this.

The characters are of the highest order of stupidity. Outside of Ultimate Bruce Banner they're all unrealistically boorish and act more like punks in spandex than real heroes. He then expects us to believe that they are superheroes because they use their powers to stop the occasional threat. They are not. They're just random idiots with superpowers who act like a child with a gun. We all know everyone has their faults, but in Millar's world there is no such thing as a good person. Even the medics who helped Iron Man acted with cruelty. It's at such a peak that when I finally read 'The Hulk Does Manhattan' I was rooting for Ultimate Hulk to eat most of the main characters.

And then there are the drastic changes. The Hulk doesn't kill people. He also doesn't eat them. You can bring out as much talk about how he's supposed to be Banner's id and you still wouldn't be able to defend it. He also doesn't speak of how 'horny' he is for Betty. Banner is about the only person I feel sympathy for, and that's partly because of the fact that he's so easily put down. At one point they mercilessly beat Banner bloody just to get the Hulk to emerge. Heck, Cap uses him as the equivalent of an atomic bomb. No one regards him as a human. He's just 'that one guy that becomes the Hulk'. Cap is another problem. He's made blatantly conservative, and according to Millar that automatically means he has to hate France and sound vaguely racist. He goes from a good character to a two-faced prick in the span of a few pages, and has no remorse for his errors. Thor's used just to bring Bush in every couple of pages, as he would rather talk in most of his appearances about how we're all raping the Earth than to actually help people. Then we come to Iron Man, who is essentially a playboy in armor. There's no depth to him, and outside of a few shots he's not even good as a superpowered civilian either. And I don't even want to get into how Hank graphically beats his wife and sends her into anaphylactic shock.

So there- in a nutshell- is why I don't like The Ultimates.

[DBZ MAN]

I thought The Ultimates was one of the best comics I've ever read. Mark Millar is my favourite writer by far. It's a very realistic read the political aspect of that helps it a lot. The Ultimates only fight when there is a huge threat and I completely disagree with your statement about the stupidity of the characters.

The Hulk is much better in this as what would happen if you 10-fold the testosterone levels on a man who feels he was cheated on? He's bound to kill people in his rage (It's called collateral damage) and feel a little horny. And people from the 40's might be conservative; you can't pin down a character because of his beliefs. And Thor’s a hippy this is great. And there’s quite a bit of depth to Iron man. Have you not read his origin? And even then 616 iron man has had like over 300 issues while there’s hardly been 20 for Ultimate Iron Man.

The thing is this is a different take on the 616 Avengers and why would you want to pay for the same story? It doesn't make sense.

Now America bashing on the other hand, I'm not so sure about. I'm sure every contry has their evil side to it and I love the fact that the heroes in this book have their flaws. It's the one thing that separates 2-dimensional 616 characters.

Oh and btw Civil is one of the best reads so far.

[VegettoEX]

Err... DragonBall forum? What?