How strong would a mortal have to be to piss off Zamasu.

[TobyS]

So Zamasu assumes Shin and Kibito defeated Majin Buu, perhaps assuming Shin is even stronger then he is, because he knows how strong kibito is perhaps had an idea of how strong buu is because he killed other kaioshins and otherwise he wouldn't know how impressive that is.

But then Shin mentions Son Goku (specifically) and his friends did it/helped.

So Zamasu goes and presumably searches for Son Goku on Godtube.

He already kinda knows by extension he's stronger then Shin, Shin placates him a little by saying they still don't exceed the god of destruction so it's not that crazy. (The strongest mortal is still weaker than the strongest god).

He already looks somewhat pissy watching the base Goku versus hit fight. (unclear if he's seen 10% blue vegeta get owned, probably not)

But when he watches the footage it seems here is when he finally snaps. Gowasu says "these mortals are even stronger than I thought"
Zamas replies: "Yes... How dare these nasty mortals be this close in power to gods of destruction...!" *narrowing his eyes all sinister AF* [Italicisation mine.]

So whether this is the exact moment he snaps I'm not sure but I like to think so, perhaps just being above a kaioshin alone doesn't impress him, perhaps he holds out hope he could grow stronger and perhaps even U7's old grand kaioshin was stronger pre moro seal...

It looks like he gets irrevocably annoyed when Red/Blue come into play judging by whats on screen.

It's possible he searched son Goku and only watched the most viewed/latest vid of Goku versus Hit and didn't see the rest of the tournament. He makes his statement after it looks like about the Red God appearance. Vegetas blue versus Cabba (not versus Hit) should have been stronger and already seen earlier so that's what makes me think he didn't see that part. But yeah here's what I'm wondering, how much weaker Goku would have to be not to piss him off?

What'd be the maximum Zamasu would tolerate?

My gut feeling with no evidence is that he'd tolerate up to supersaiyan 3. You'd need Red or at least Vegetas reduced Blue to really piss him off.... What do you think? The range is somewhere between 3 and reduced blue.

------

The reason I ask is because it makes me think about the other timelines, which I might make a thread about. In Cells timeline "future" Zamasu would never see the godtube footage because there wouldn't be any, Gokus probably not still in heaven or with a body anyway, Beerus presumably doesn't come to earth or heaven and meet any saiyans let alone saiyan god-os. Broly and Tarble wouldn't be enough, they'd have to luck out and get Goku, Gohan and Trunks in heaven and I don't think that'd work, that'd also assume Broly and Tarble are sufficiently pure hearted, and Whis would think to check heaven...But either way that wouldn't matter come to think of it, he'd be waiting for "Unseen timeline" Black to recruit and finish radicalising him.

Anyway that'd be the future Zamasu that Unseen Black would recruit. For Unseen Black to come into existence though we'd need a Goku in the range discussed in the first part of the post.

Here's the 'new' information I and seemingly the rest of the fandom never took in though. When future zamasu first shows up to the battlefield he says none of the other "parallel worlds" stating "They were nothing compared to your world. We should be able to take control of them without opposition."
This means either the Dragon team are dead or less powerful in the other timelines (the gods are just as easily killable via killing the kaioshins like they did here, and in fact he makes this statement despite all the others still having an additional Beerus too.) So clearly he's referring to the mortals. He's only just arrived and healed black and hasn't really got a good measure of Vegeta yet so he coooould be saying that the rest of the worlds are even weaker then Trunks SS3 tier SS2 power!

If we combine these two facts it's possible, even likely Zamasu never kicked off in the unseen TL as well as Cells. BONUS this possibly also explains why they didn't recruit these other two/three (if we count U12 guys TL) zamasus, because they weren't mad/radicalisable.

[Lionel]

Zamasu's logic at its most rigid interpretation would see a number of people, species even, poised for execution due to being too powerful. Remember that Kami and Karin are deities as well who were surpass countless numbers of people.

Now if you only use the Hakaishin and Kaioshins as your metric then the margin for acceptability is greatly widened. I suspect Zamasu would tolerate, though not enjoy, a mortal strength that's possibly formidable enough to handle the likes of Dabura. Buu is pushing it as such a being saw the intervention of fellow Kaioshin with virtually all of them being wiped out.

[TobyS]

Zamasu's logic at its most rigid interpretation would see a number of people, species even, poised for execution due to being too powerful. Remember that Kami and Karin are deities as well who were surpass countless numbers of people.

Now if you only use the Hakaishin and Kaioshins as your metric then the margin for acceptability is greatly widened. I suspect Zamasu would tolerate, though not enjoy, a mortal strength that's possibly formidable enough to handle the likes of Dabura. Buu is pushing it as such a being saw the intervention of fellow Kaioshin with virtually all of them being wiped out.

Buu is a complete magical creation/primordial being, I think Buus the one exception where if he met him and killed him, even getting hurt or pushed by him I personally don't see it as being Ningens fault.

So you say he'd tolerate someone who could kill Dabra, so SS2? Which is about his own level in the present maybe?

If he has an idea of how strong Buu is and a mortals already stronger then that then imo he's already accepted up to SS3 but I'm just guessing. I'm just trying to gauge if he's gone evil in the weaker timelines because if he did he would have shown up in the main one by now. So either he lost still somehow, perhaps acting alone without a black or being a black without a zamasu or he never kicked off, in which case we can sorta work out the upper level of the remaining fighters in the unseen timeline...

[Lionel]

Zamasu's logic at its most rigid interpretation would see a number of people, species even, poised for execution due to being too powerful. Remember that Kami and Karin are deities as well who were surpass countless numbers of people.

Now if you only use the Hakaishin and Kaioshins as your metric then the margin for acceptability is greatly widened. I suspect Zamasu would tolerate, though not enjoy, a mortal strength that's possibly formidable enough to handle the likes of Dabura. Buu is pushing it as such a being saw the intervention of fellow Kaioshin with virtually all of them being wiped out.

Buu is a complete magical creation/primordial being, I think Buus the one exception where if he met him and killed him, even getting hurt or pushed by him I personally don't see it as being Ningens fault.

So you say he'd tolerate someone who could kill Dabra, so SS2? Which is about his own level in the present maybe?

If he has an idea of how strong Buu is and a mortals already stronger then that then imo he's already accepted up to SS3 but I'm just guessing. I'm just trying to gauge if he's gone evil in the weaker timelines because if he did he would have shown up in the main one by now. So either he lost still somehow, perhaps acting alone without a black or being a black without a zamasu or he never kicked off, in which case we can sorta work out the upper level of the remaining fighters in the unseen timeline...

Buu is a mutant like aberration from the beginning of creation. He's not a deity himself but his history and close personal interactions with Kaioshins puts him in a distinct position. If Zamasu is tolerant of that entity being handled by ningen then I suppose his standards were a bit more lax than I initially thought.

These power level projections for the Black arc always confused me. Is Zamasu's standard of SSJ2 comparability the same as the one from the Buu arc? Dabura himself is an otherwordly entity, one of particular notoriety even for Kaioshins but I think he falls short of meeting parameters for Zamasu's ideal of exceptionalism. If I had to compare Dabura's status, not strength, to anything then I suppose Akkuman might work.

[SupremeKai25]

Any mortal stronger than a Supreme Kai would piss him off, and for very good reasons. The Supreme Kais should be more powerful than their creations, in order to keep them under control and put them down should they go rogue.

If you create a robot who has:

- Greater strength than you;
- Free will;
- The potential for evil (which could be considered a malfunctioning in its design).

You're likely going to end very badly.

Therefore, when you look at the Buu arc, Super Saiyan 3 would be enough to anger him greatly. Via scaling, Super Saiyan 3 >>>> Supreme Kai Shin. And no mortal, in Zamasu's mind, should ever eclipse a God in power. Which is correct theoretically.

We should also remember that being SS2/SS3 level is already a very rare feat in the DBverse. Frieza was considered to be one of the strongest warriors in the universe and was the undisputed emperor, yet Shin could've oneshot him back in the Namek saga. It's really just the saiyans and a select few other beings (many of which are prodigies) who can reach such high level of powers that they eclipse the Kais.

[TobyS]

Any mortal stronger than a Supreme Kai would piss him off, and for very good reasons. The Supreme Kais created these mortals, so they should be weaker than their creators.

If you create a robot who has:

- Greater strength than you;
- Free will;
- The potential for evil (which could be considered a malfunctioning in its design).

You're likely going to end very badly.

Therefore, when you look at the Buu arc, Super Saiyan 3 would be enough to anger him greatly. Via scaling, Super Saiyan 3 >>>> Supreme Kai Shin. And no mortal, in Zamasu's mind, should ever eclipse a God in power. Which is correct theoretically.

Right so what do you think happens in the unseen timeline.

Assuming Buu doesn't kill everyone and Shin and Kibito never visit and spar with Zamasu as a result. They'd speak with him, say they actually had help from mortals,

Zamasu goes to godtube and searches for "Son Goku" and finds nothing.

What happens next? You think he visits Zuno and asks how powerful Goku is proportionally using himself as reference? Steals Gokus body without ever seeing it? Wishes to steal the strongest mortals body, assuming it's Gokus and perhaps ending up in unseen Gohan/Hit/Jiren?

He's trying to be undetected, roughing up Zuno was bad enough but challenging Goku would require leaving Gowasus side for a while and might get snitched back up the chain.

Just curious what you see happening?

[Polyphase Avatron]

Only as strong as the barbarian dinosaur guys. They pissed him off.

[TobyS]

Only as strong as the barbarian dinosaur guys. They pissed him off.

Right but I mean to push him over the edge to doing the zero mortals plan.
I feel like he needed the offence of seeing Goku be as close to Beerus as he was to snap. That was my reading of the scene, I think Gowasu would reach him eventually otherwise, after many years.

[Nodeo-Franvier]

I think Perfect Cell/Dabura level where Supreme Kai couldn't handle him.

[TobyS]

I think Perfect Cell/Dabura level where Supreme Kai couldn't handle him.

So surpassing the weakest/one of the weaker kaioshins?
So do you think his zero mortals plan was inevitable the moment Kibito told him "these days there are a number of humans who's strength has surpassed us divine beings"? He already knew they helped beat Buu and the Kaioshins would have died without their help before he said that.

You don't think watching Goku using godly ki on godtube made a difference?