Episode #0517 (09 March 2025)

[VegettoEX]

Episode #0517 (download MP3) (rss feed) (subscribe in iTunes) (Spotify version) (YouTube version) (SoundCloud version)
1:53:34; 128 kbps, mono; 104 MB

Episode #0517! Mike, Ken, and Ajay review the complete "Dragon Ball Daima" television series! Over these 20 episodes, what new concepts are introduced/reintroduced, what lore conflicts are we still reeling from, how did the art and animation hold up with such a prolonged production timeframe... and did we like it?

REFERENCED SITES:

• EPISODE GUIDE: Dragon Ball Daima
• BLUESKY: Kanzenshuu
• BLUESKY: Mike
• BLUESKY: Ken
• BLUESKY: Ajay
• SPOTIFY: We Gotta Podcast
• YOUTUBE: Totally Not A Podcast
• TWITCH: Mike
• PATREON: Kanzenshuu

Enjoy!

[KBABZ]

As I used to, I'm gonna jot down my thoughts here as I listen to the podcast! ...within the Spoiler box, it is quite lengthy.

Spoiler:

On the topic of "why?", I never really felt that way about the series at all. To me it was natural to follow up Super and its movies eventually in some way, It was more curious that it is the closest work to the Boo Arc to date (and cracks the idea of it being in Super's continuity straight out of the gate), and the idea of it being more adventure-focused is what drew me in. It being a long production was encouraging to me, because one of Super's major problems was that it was a content treadmill that couldn't afford the time to make the visuals do the story any justice. Daima came off as the exact opposite to me: every month of production is visible on the screen.

The idea of sending work scene-by-scene to higher ups is reminiscent of when I was an animator on the Alita movie, where every producer and their dog's ticks needed to see a scene and have their own input. It's not just the MCU!

The whole thing about the eyecatches, recap and title cards to me is them trying to fit the 23 minute runtime for TV airings. There are story beats that feel very obviously added in to pad out the story to meet this runtime (stuff like the main plot of Thieves, the constant plane woes, and pretty much all of Episode 13). A web series wouldn't have to worry about that, and I'm rather interested in hearing what Daima was like before it was bloated up for the TV airing. The fade to blacks to me are also a sign of this, marking points where episode endings used to exist.

I liked the gimmick of them being turned into kids purely for dub reasons, because I get to hear Stephanie Nadolny, MY Kid Goku voice who I NEVER thought I'd ever hear in the role again, come back and actually get to ACT as the character with a modern-written script (rub-a-dub dub aside). To me the gimmick of them being kids goes along with "They're in space!" or "this bad guy's literally a demon!" or "hey we're fighting robots now!", it's an event that occurs during the arc to give it a unique character.

I'm heartbroken that everyone disliked the music! I LOVED the music in Daima, and there are certain tracks that I absolutely adore and like them as much, if not moreso, than Kikuchi's tracks from the OG-DB series. Granted, all my favourites are either the low-key conversation music, use Jaka Jaan, or both, but that doesn't mean they aren't good. The super-quiet mixing feels accurate to the dub version of Episodes 1 and 2, funnily enough.

A lot of the "Chekovs Unfired Guns" to me is reading WAYYYYYYYYYYY too much into what's ultimately a Dragon Ball story, a franchise kinda famous for being quite basic but still really fun and exciting. Arinsu's previous Majin, for example, to me was a throwaway reference to a past event and was never intended to be anything more. I'm kinda shocked to hear that anyone read anything into that, let alone attach it to GLORIO (despite him SAYING he was from the Third Demon Realm in Episode 3).

Funnily enough, I AM thinking of making a Dragon Ball Kai edit, which was really spurred on by how much of time-filling wastes the Gendarmeries Force were. I do like the Toriyama Lore Dumps are though, not sure how I'd handle those!

The complaints about Gomah and especially Degesu I feel are valid, but again it feels like nothing new for a Dragon Ball story. Pilaf is absent in the manga and totally ineffectual in the anime. Commander Red ALSO does nothing, Frieza spends a LOT of time just standing around not doing anything. Android 20, ostensibly the villain of the Android Arc, is written off rather quickly, Cell spends a whole week doing nothing after gaining perfection rather than confronting the heroes directly. Y'know?

I liked Third Eye Gomah because it presented a unique problem in trying to overcome a character with infinitely regenerating stamina, and this blatant cheat code has been given to a character who doesn't deserve it. Yes, the Androids had infinite stamina too, but it was never really utilized outside of a fight and a half so it's not so much "solved" as "forgotten about", discarded into the same bin Zenkai was thrown in after Goku goes Super Saiyan.

I've actually gone back on Goku using SS2 at the end of the Number Three fight! After Goku's demonstration in Episode 19, the tell to me is if we can see the underside of Goku's "bang" with the lines visible. That's present after Goku uses his big elbow attack on Number Three, so I think he used it for that attack specifically.

The Super Saiyan discussion reminds me of a crack theory regarding the past Demon Realm kings. One of them has rather Vegeta-like hair, and the Third Demon Realm has a striking resemblance to planet Vegeta in the Super Broly movie. My theory is that Saiyans used to be from the Third Demon Realm but left at some point.

I do agree that SS4 wasn't given any unique qualities that were taken advantage of like the larger hands and forearms (and tail, of course). Pitting them head-to-head, I really prefer Daima's take using the colour red to unify everything with the head hair and eyes; this is an aspect about the first three Super Saiyan forms that GT's SS4 breaks, and not in a good-subversive way for me. And while this isn't specific to the form itself, I NEVER liked the yellow pants from the GT version because it looks more like he peed them, just a really unfortunate result of removing the shirt.

The other reason I like Daima's SS4 so much is that for me it's a symbol that Daima is not in Super's continuity, but on its own branch. It was a bit irritating for me to watch people cling to the idea that Daima is a "Super prequel", so I loved SS4 showing up (and Goku keeping it in Ep19) because it fully snaps that theory in half. I really hope that future stories continue from Daima (hopefully within those first five years post-Boo) and Super gets relegated to "Make Sonic Adventure 3" status.

I agree with the panel that VegettoEX sounded quite upset about not just SS4, but the whole show, like it was a waste of time and not worth releasing. I don't think that's your actual opinion, but that's the vibe you give off whenever you talk about Daima, y'know?

"The Kakarot version of Daima may be its best form" - I strongly disagree with this on the basis that any presentation of story in Kakarot looks rather awful to me. I'd rather Triangle Guy over Kakarot cutscenes.

I personally really loved Daima. It was a delight to watch every Saturday, it has some genuinely great fights (Episode 4, 8, 18-20), the music was fantastic, the animation, while a bit choppy, was extremely good, the CG was (Namekian water and planes aside) tastefully done and used to accentuate the traditional animation rather than stand toe-to-toe with it. Everything about it felt laser-focused on appealing specifically to my tastes, and it may be my favourite product in the entire franchise. Can't wait for the soundtrack and Blu-Ray!

[Captain Awesome]

Great episode - always love having Ajay on the show.

I aligned pretty close to his thoughts - Daima isn't a perfect show, but taken on its own terms its an enjoyable one.

As for where I want the series to go next - I'm not really sure. Without Toriyama's involvement I find it difficult to get enthusiastic about it. The one thing I do know is Black Freeza is garbage.